Merged: Breaking News: Hedo rejects offer

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Man.. I went out for tonight confident that we were going to get Hedo. Come back and have to read about this a couple hours ago, and it's still pissing me off. Hate that Hedo's wife had a hand in this, don't like how Portland just isn't an attractive city to live in for free agents when compared to other NBA cities, and how our plan just blew up in our faces.

A disappointing trade deadline, a ho-hum draft, seeing the Lakers win a title, good players are being scooped up quickly, the 'report' of Rudy whining, other teams in the West are getting better... I'm just bitter right now. It seems like whenever something good transpires for us, something else just knocks us back a couple steps. FML
 
alex42083 said:
Man.. I went out for tonight confident that we were going to get Hedo. Come back and have to read about this a couple hours ago, and it's still pissing me off. Hate that Hedo's wife had a hand in this, don't like how Portland just isn't an attractive city to live in for free agents when compared to other NBA cities, and how our plan just blew up in our faces.

A disappointing trade deadline, a ho-hum draft, seeing the Lakers win a title, good players are being scooped up quickly, the 'report' of Rudy whining, other teams in the West are getting better... I'm just bitter right now. It seems like whenever something good transpires for us, something else just knocks us back a couple steps. FML
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Pretty sure Toronto is offering more money than the Blazers and Hedo pretty much said $ is very important.

Wife liked Toronto more
Toronto paid more

Simple.

AND I LOVE IT!
 
alex42083 said:
other teams in the West are getting better...
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If they are getting better, it's only short term. They're also getting older. In the end, this will shorten the championship window for teams like the Lakers and Spurs just like it did for the Suns and Mavericks when they traded for Shaq and Kidd. Those two moves ended up slamming the championship window for those two teams.

The Lakers just gave up one of their best young players and replaced him with a 30-year old time bomb who's past his prime and starting to slide. He may (or may not) make them better for a year, maybe two, but then their window is closed. The success of the Spurs is directly tied to Tim Duncan's knees. They are getting worse every year. Last season, he couldn't play in back-to back games. When Timmy is done, so are the Spurs. Adding Richard Jefferson, who is also past his "best if used by" date, will mean nothing if Timmy's knees can't hold up.

So the Suns traded themselves out of contention when they added Shaq, the Mavericks did the same when they traded Devin Harris for Jason Kidd. The Lakers and Spurs look better, on paper, if healthy, this year, but beyond that how much longer can they contend with their superstars aging and their entire rosters getting older?

And once their window is closed, ours will just be starting to open. Be patient. There is no team in the league that's as good, and as young, as the Blazers. None are even close. The only other young team that comes remotely close to our young talent is OKC, and they won 23 games last season. Something tells me we're going to be OK.

BNM
 
Ugghh...what a crappy surprise after going out and seeing conceited crappy music tonight...

Since no one can officially agree to deals until the 8th, is there a possibility we can yank someone that's already "committed"?
 
RoyToy said:
Pretty sure Toronto is offering more money than the Blazers and Hedo pretty much said $ is very important.

Wife liked Toronto more
Toronto paid more

Simple.

AND I LOVE IT!
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I realize you were one of the bigger proponents against Hedo. But I'm just bummed over the whole thing. Things will never change in regards to Portland and attracting free agents, even with trying to get key role players maybe.

We'll always be working at a disadvantage in getting players to come here. Oh well, it sucks. Time to move on.
 
Boob-No-More said:
If they are getting better, it's only short term. They're also getting older. In the end, this will shorten the championship window for teams like the Lakers and Spurs just like it did for the Suns and Mavericks when they traded for Shaq and Kidd. Those two moves ended up slamming the championship window for those two teams.

The Lakers just gave up one of their best young players and replaced him with a 30-year old time bomb who's past his prime and starting to slide. He may (or may not) make them better for a year, maybe two, but then their window is closed. The success of the Spurs is directly tied to Tim Duncan's knees. They are getting worse every year. Last season, he couldn't play in back-to back games. When Timmy is done, so are the Spurs. Adding Richard Jefferson, who is also past his "best if used by" date, will mean nothing if Timmy's knees can't hold up.

So the Suns traded themselves out of contention when they added Shaq, the Mavericks did the same when they traded Devin Harris for Jason Kidd. The Lakers and Spurs look better, on paper, if healthy, this year, but beyond that how much longer can they contend with their superstars aging and their entire rosters getting older?

And once their window is closed, ours will just be starting to open. Be patient. There is no team in the league that's as good, and as young, as the Blazers. None are even close. The only other young team that comes remotely close to our young talent is OKC, and they won 23 games last season. Something tells me we're going to be OK.

BNM
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I don't know... I hate trying to depend on other teams failing. Other teams will always look to get better each offseason no matter what.
We have a chance this offseason to really get better, and Plan A failed. I know it's still early, but options are dwindling.
And I realize we still have a real good team, but to think we could've taken another big step forward and have it fail, bums me out and serves as another reminder the heartbreaks of being a Blazer fan.

Here's to hoping Nicolas, Jerryd and Greg make big leaps next year, as well as Martell staying healthy. We'll more than likely make the playoffs again, but the championship window probably isn't open yet if we head in with the current roster.
 
I bet Wheels, Gavin and Chad all feel bad/kind of dumb now for spending three hours on their day off discussing how Hedo fits on the Blazers, and bringing in all those guests talking about how much better Hedo would make our team..
 
alex42083 said:
I bet Wheels, Gavin and Chad all feel bad/kind of dumb now for spending three hours on their day off discussing how Hedo fits on the Blazers, and bringing in all those guests talking about how much better Hedo would make our team..
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Well... they shouldn't, I don't think. They need to react as quickly as they can to news, and all signs pointed to Türkoğlu coming to Portland. If they waited until the contract was actually signed, it would have been almost old news. :)

Ed O.
 
Ed O said:
Well... they shouldn't, I don't think. They need to react as quickly as they can to news, and all signs pointed to Türkoğlu coming to Portland. If they waited until the contract was actually signed, it would have been almost old news. :)

Ed O.
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Yeah, I guess. But they did this special three-hour breaking news show on their supposed day off, getting impromptu guests for the whole thing. I wonder if they would've decided to do it all again in hindsight. Oh well.. moot point. Some inside source really jumped the gun on this one.
 
I don't understand why people are so blase about using our cap space... even on someone like Hedo..... this is really our only chance at making a big signing for the next 5-6 years (or longer). Next summer we will have Roy and Aldridge on the books for big contracts, the year after that it will be Oden, and then Rudy, Bayless, and Batum. We won't see cap space like this for a long time. This is our one time to essentially add a significant piece without giving anything up (except money). To add someone like Hedo, Andre Miller, Ramon Sessions, etc.... it's only icing on the cake.... and we're missing out on it. We didn't use RLEC, and this is really our only shot at getting something for nothing.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't understand why people are so blase about using our cap space... even on someone like Hedo..... this is really our only chance at making a big signing for the next 5-6 years (or longer). Next summer we will have Roy and Aldridge on the books for big contracts, the year after that it will be Oden, and then Rudy, Bayless, and Batum. We won't see cap space like this for a long time. This is our one time to essentially add a significant piece without giving anything up (except money). To add someone like Hedo, Andre Miller, Ramon Sessions, etc.... it's only icing on the cake.... and we're missing out on it. We didn't use RLEC, and this is really our only shot at getting something for nothing.
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As Minstrel and others have pointed out: we will actually have MORE cap space during the season, because the cap holds on the overseas 1st rounders doesn't count.

The Blazers will still have opportunities to do some things during the season if they can't use their cap space now. I hope, of course, that they can get value, but it won't be the end of the dynasty if they can't.

Ed O.
 
Whew!

Dodged that absurdly over-priced bullet!

The wise move now would be to fire Nate and buy back Sergio.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I don't understand why people are so blase about using our cap space... even on someone like Hedo..... this is really our only chance at making a big signing for the next 5-6 years (or longer). Next summer we will have Roy and Aldridge on the books for big contracts, the year after that it will be Oden, and then Rudy, Bayless, and Batum. We won't see cap space like this for a long time. This is our one time to essentially add a significant piece without giving anything up (except money). To add someone like Hedo, Andre Miller, Ramon Sessions, etc.... it's only icing on the cake.... and we're missing out on it. We didn't use RLEC, and this is really our only shot at getting something for nothing.
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I don't know squat about the cap stuff, but won't Roy and Aldridge be on their BYC status' next season, meaning that there should still be significant cap space...also considering Miles will also be off the books, as well?
 
ABM said:
I don't know squat about the cap stuff, but won't Roy and Aldridge be on their BYC status' next season, meaning that there should still be significant cap space...also considering Miles will also be off the books, as well?
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No, until signed to an actual contract or renounced, they actually have a cap hold of like 3 times the previous season's salary. So, that would eat up the cap room.
 
Ed O said:
As Minstrel and others have pointed out: we will actually have MORE cap space during the season, because the cap holds on the overseas 1st rounders doesn't count.

The Blazers will still have opportunities to do some things during the season if they can't use their cap space now. I hope, of course, that they can get value, but it won't be the end of the dynasty if they can't.

Ed O.
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I believe KP has said something about not rocking the boat during the season.

It gave me the impression he didn't make changes to the roster during the season.

Which means the cap space will be wasted.

Much like right now, actually.
 
alex42083 said:
Things will never change in regards to Portland and attracting free agents, even with trying to get key role players maybe.
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That's not necessarily such a huge disadvantage. The free agent market in every sport tends to be the least efficient way to get talent, unless you're working the very highest end (superstars) or the lowest end (scrapheap guys who provide some value that you can get cheap). In the NBA, though, the superstars very rarely hit the free agent market. So Portland, if they really aren't a city free agents will come to (which I think isn't well-established...considering how rarely Portland has been under the cap and how rarely any team signs a major free agent, we're talking about a pretty small sample size to draw conclusions from), isn't really all that handicapped not being able to shop among the mid-range free agents.

They're better off, anyway, adding cheap talent from the draft and correctly priced talent through trade.
 
This is very good news imo. I have no idea why the Blazers were pursuing Hedo so much in the first place. Our biggest need is backup power forward. Hopefully we can address that now. Fuck Hedo.
 
Ed O said:
As Minstrel and others have pointed out: we will actually have MORE cap space during the season, because the cap holds on the overseas 1st rounders doesn't count.

The Blazers will still have opportunities to do some things during the season if they can't use their cap space now. I hope, of course, that they can get value, but it won't be the end of the dynasty if they can't.

Ed O.
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:lol: "Dynastys" are reserved for royalty, not the kitchen wenches and the bumpkins who muck out the stables.

Isn't KP on record as saying he dislikes in-season trades because they disrupt chemistry? (or is that just an understandable conclusion based on his actions?) I'm inclined to believe that if nothing happens this summer - nothing happens.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Isn't KP on record as saying he dislikes in-season trades because they disrupt chemistry? (or is that just an understandable conclusion based on his actions?) I'm inclined to believe that if nothing happens this summer - nothing happens.
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I don't think what Pritchard says for public consumption has any value in divining his actual plans and philosophies. He talks the generic, PR-friendly patter that comes standard to lots of GMs. My guess is that he didn't make a move at the trade deadline because he felt nothing available would actually improve the team. I don't think he refused to make a move on philosophical grounds.

I could be wrong. If I am, that would be a shame...it would be a real failing in Pritchard, in terms of flexibility.

For now, though, I'll proceed on the assumption that Pritchard doesn't purposely cripple his ability to build a team and is open to mid-season deals if they are good ones. If so, then he'll actually have more cap space flexibility to make a move later. At the trade deadline and, as Stepping Razor noted in another thread, at next year's draft.

Not that I am suggesting he wait, if there's a good opportunity this summer.
 
Minstrel said:
My guess is that he didn't make a move at the trade deadline because he felt nothing available would actually improve the team. I don't think he refused to make a move on philosophical grounds.
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This is also a train of thought I personally subscribe to.
 
Minstrel said:
That's not necessarily such a huge disadvantage. The free agent market in every sport tends to be the least efficient way to get talent, unless you're working the very highest end (superstars) or the lowest end (scrapheap guys who provide some value that you can get cheap). In the NBA, though, the superstars very rarely hit the free agent market. So Portland, if they really aren't a city free agents will come to (which I think isn't well-established...considering how rarely Portland has been under the cap and how rarely any team signs a major free agent, we're talking about a pretty small sample size to draw conclusions from), isn't really all that handicapped not being able to shop among the mid-range free agents.

They're better off, anyway, adding cheap talent from the draft and correctly priced talent through trade.
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You never want to have your options limited as a franchise though by factors unrelated to basketball. And generally to sign or keep free agents here, we've had to overpay for them i.e. Brian Grant, Joel, Kenny Anderson, Derek Anderson and Ruben Patterson.

Sure, the sample size is pretty small, but maybe it's not coincidence that Whitsitt and Nash had to overpay players to get them here or keep them.
Whether the players deserved to be kept of course is another thing.

I agree that heading forward that adding talent through the draft and trade is probably our best bet now, but obviously that wasn't the plan KP and the Blazers brass had this offseason.
There were so many advantages basketball-wise for Hedo to sign with us, but it was the city that wasn't attractive enough and that makes me bitter about the whole thing.
 
Minstrel said:
They're better off, anyway, adding cheap talent from the draft and correctly priced talent through trade.
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Philosophically, I completely agree with this. (Which is why I was so PO'ed when we punted the draft.) As a practical matter, our eggs may already be stuck in the wrong basket.

I find myself very torn right now. I was underwhelmed by Hedo, and unhappy at the notion of over-paying for him. On the flip side, I want the team to improve, and this is the course KP commited to.....so the failure depresses me.


Sometimes, it's tough being a flinty-eyed realist! :sigh:
 
alex42083 said:
Sure, the sample size is pretty small, but maybe it's not coincidence that Whitsitt and Nash had to overpay players to get them here or keep them.
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It's not coincidence. You generally have to "overpay" for free agents (relative to the marginal wins/dollar of the entire NBA talent base), which is why the free agent market is generally the least efficient way to add talent. Having to overpay to get free agents isn't just a "Portland" thing. It's the norm. Every so often a free agent takes less than he can get to join a specific team, but that's unusual.
 
Minstrel said:
It's not coincidence. You generally have to "overpay" for free agents (relative to the marginal wins/dollar of the entire NBA talent base), which is why the free agent market is generally the least efficient way to add talent. Having to overpay to get free agents isn't just a "Portland" thing. It's the norm. Every so often a free agent takes less than he can get to join a specific team, but that's unusual.
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True, unless you're the Lakers.
 
Turk in TO...rolls off the tongue.
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lol, asshole. :)

Oh well, life goes on. I believe everything happens for a reason, so we will see. Can't judge until training camp, imo. This gives us more flexibility to make a lobsided trade. I still have my sights on Harris, and think a Rudy/Bayless/Outlaw/1st/Cash for Harris and a contract would be a nice offer.
 
Duckman said:
Turk in TO...rolls off the tongue.
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It does. Portland not paying rolls of the tongue even better. I'd like Turk here, but I hated the idea of paying him $12 mil or so each of the last two years, when he's 34 and 35. And for a team like Toronto going nowhere, the acquisition makes no sense.
 
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