Merged: Nets trade Jefferson to Spurs

[craigehlo]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Yeah.. expect the Spurs to re-sign Bowen and Oberto.

There needs to be a rule against that in the next CBA. So sick of dudes getting used as filler and they can just get cut to go straight back to their original team.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Well shit. We'll have to see what happens, but my guess is they can now let CharlieV walk, sign Sessions to the mid-level and probably only pay $1M in luxury tax.

Fuck. Good job Milwaukee. Good job Spurs.

Game on, Pritch.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

As for Jefferson, this doesn't make me upset from Portland's perspective, although indirectly our success is hit because the Spurs get better. Jefferson's price tag, and yes, I do think management is trying to spend money wisely, decreased his value to us.

If we're going after a 3, there are others that I'd prefer for this team.

 

[LittleAlex]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I'm not convinced this makes San Antonio markedly better. Does Ginobli start or Jefferson start? If both of them start, who gets the shots between Parker, Ginobli, Jefferson and Duncan? And if both of them start, where's their punch off of the bench? I suppose Roger Mason Jr. and George Hill, but that's putting a lot on their shoulders.

Bowen served a great role for that team, always guarding the other team's playmaker on defense and keeping the floor spread so Duncan, Ginobli and Parker could operate in the interior on offense.

Not to mention they traded away their front line depth. Better hope Timmy holds up.

I guess the Spurs had to get more athletic, but I don't know that they jump us with this move.

-Pop

Jefferson will start. Manu is equally effective starting or coming off the bench. That's why Micheal Finely's rotting corpse has been starting for the last couple of years even when Manu was healthy.

SA hasn't had a high powered offense in a long time and they haven't needed one to win titles. They really only need a couple of guys to score off the bench. Mason and Manu are perfect there. Jefferson takes some of the load off of Parker and Duncan.

This move makes them better then they were. And with a healthy Manu, SA was already better then Portland before the trade. This just puts them farther ahead.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Jefferson is remarkably overrated on this forum. He's not the same player he was in 2005. He's dropped off a lot, both in terms of production and defense.

This doesn't really worry me from San Antonio's side. It's akin to adding a John Salmons. An okay player, but hardly an impact one. They traded some depth for a decent rotation player. If it's not a wash, it's not much above one.

It does seem to clear the decks for Milwaukee to re-sign Sessions, which is a shame to me. Nice move by Milwaukee, dumping a bad contract painlessly.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I think we should look at Oberto as a backup PF option.

Only if he agrees to lather, rinse, repeat - and even then, NO THANKS. The guy sucks. He had a PER of 10.6 last season and isn't even a good rebounder (12.5 TRB%). He's also a lot older (33) than most people realize - probably because he's only been in the league a few years (he was 30 as a rookie). There are a ton of better veteran free agent big men available this summer - something San Antonio is probably banking on to fill out their front court if this trade goes down.

UFA Veteran Big Men - Summer 2009:

Zaza Pachulia
Mikki Moore
Juwan Howard
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Early Termination Option)
Anderson Varejao (Player Option)
Brandon Bass
Chris Andersen
Antonio McDyess
Rasheed Wallace
Rasho Nesterovic
Brian Skinner (Player Option)
Lamar Odom
Shelden Williams
Melvin Ely
Sean Marks
Chris Wilcox
Stromile Swift
Shavlik Randolph
Michael Ruffin
Drew Gooden
Carlos Boozer (Player Option)
Mehmet Okur (Early Termination Option)

That's not even everyone. I left off guys who are over-the-hill and unlikely to get picked-up - and that list doesn't include the many RSA big men. With teams tightening their payrolls, it will definitely be a buyer's market for teams shopping for veteran big men. A few guys, like Boozer, will get bi contracts, but many of these guys will have to settle for the veteran's minimum or a portion of the MLE. A quality organization, like San Antonio, will be able to pick up 2 or 3 decent back-up bigs just using their exceptions.

I'd also love to see Portland pick up one of these guys. There's at least 15 guys on that list I'd rather have then "Oh Boy!" Oberto (heck, I'd rather keep Shavlik and Channing over Oberto). Some of them will re-sign with their current teams, others will be looking for starter's minutes, but there are still several guys there that would be a big improvement at the back-up power forward position over what we had last season.

BNM

 

[illmatic99]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Jefferson is due to make $14 mil in '09, and $15 mil in '10. Not even close to being worth it.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Jefferson is remarkably overrated on this forum.

I agree he's overrated by some, but he does, IMO, improve the Spurs. The Spurs overachieved last season. Jefferson seems very coachable. I hate to think what Pops can do with a roster including him now, especially if they gain back Oberto and Bowen.

Is their upgrade enough to distance them from us? Even if we do nothing and they're blessed to have a more healthy roster this year, I say we're still even. Add in experience, and that could give them the edge in a series.

If we even upgrade Blake to Hinrich, we gain the edge back. If we add a bruiser at the 4, we're clearly ahead of them.

 

[Wheels]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Good deal you had to make.. but they are thin up front.

 

[Cake]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

The 2007 draft was a pretty terrible one outside of the top 5.

Not really.

They could have had Al Thornton, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes, Rodney Stuckey, Rudy Fernandez, Wilson Chandler, Ramon Sessions, Aaron Brooks, etc.

8 players selected behind him averaged more points+rebounds+assists than Yi did last season. If you took a random pick from 6 to the end of the lottery and threw a dart to choose, you'd probably end up with a better player than Yi.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Good deal you had to make.. but they are thin up front.

I don't agree that losing Oberto makes them thin up front. Gooden can easily step in, and they can most likely re-sign Oberto once Milwaukee waives him. I woul dassume they will do this with Bowen as well.

 

[Wheels]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I don't agree that losing Oberto makes them thin up front. Gooden can easily step in, and they can most likely re-sign Oberto once Milwaukee waives him. I woul dassume they will do this with Bowen as well.

Ah I forgot about Gooden completely.. good point, and thanks for the reminder. Even better deal for SAS.

 

[alex42083]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Not really.

They could have had Al Thornton, Thad Young, Spencer Hawes, Rodney Stuckey, Rudy Fernandez, Wilson Chandler, Ramon Sessions, Aaron Brooks, etc.

8 players selected behind him averaged more points+rebounds+assists than Yi did last season. If you took a random pick from 6 to the end of the lottery and threw a dart to choose, you'd probably end up with a better player than Yi.

Still not a stellar group IMO outside of Young and Rudy. And at No. 6, they weren't going to draft Chandler or Sessions or Brooks.
In terms of star power, the '07 draft wasn't all that great outside of the top 5. There's some solid rotation NBA players though.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I agree he's overrated by some, but he does, IMO, improve the Spurs. The Spurs overachieved last season. Jefferson seems very coachable. I hate to think what Pops can do with a roster including him now, especially if they gain back Oberto and Bowen.

Jefferson isn't a bad player, he's roughly average. I agree that it helps them if they get back Oberto and Bowen...he'll add to their depth. He's simply not an impact addition, IMO.

Something to consider...if Webster improves just a bit on his last healthy season, Portland could be making an "addition" of a similarly good player. And I'm one of the more skeptical posters here about Webster. But his PER was only about 3 below Jefferson's average PER for the past three seasons. A 3 PER gain for a player of Webster's age and experience wouldn't be that surprising, and Webster plays defense at least as well as Jefferson does now.

 

[Tince]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Only if he agrees to lather, rinse, repeat - and even then, NO THANKS. The guy sucks. He had a PER of 10.6 last season and isn't even a good rebounder (12.5 TRB%). He's also a lot older (33) than most people realize - probably because he's only been in the league a few years (he was 30 as a rookie). There are a ton of better veteran free agent big men available this summer - something San Antonio is probably banking on to fill out their front court if this trade goes down.

UFA Veteran Big Men - Summer 2009:

Zaza Pachulia
Mikki Moore
Juwan Howard
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Early Termination Option)
Anderson Varejao (Player Option)
Brandon Bass
Chris Andersen
Antonio McDyess
Rasheed Wallace
Rasho Nesterovic
Brian Skinner (Player Option)
Lamar Odom
Shelden Williams
Melvin Ely
Sean Marks
Chris Wilcox
Stromile Swift
Shavlik Randolph
Michael Ruffin
Drew Gooden
Carlos Boozer (Player Option)
Mehmet Okur (Early Termination Option)

That's not even everyone. I left off guys who are over-the-hill and unlikely to get picked-up - and that list doesn't include the many RSA big men. With teams tightening their payrolls, it will definitely be a buyer's market for teams shopping for veteran big men. A few guys, like Boozer, will get bi contracts, but many of these guys will have to settle for the veteran's minimum or a portion of the MLE. A quality organization, like San Antonio, will be able to pick up 2 or 3 decent back-up bigs just using their exceptions.

I'd also love to see Portland pick up one of these guys. There's at least 15 guys on that list I'd rather have then "Oh Boy!" Oberto (heck, I'd rather keep Shavlik and Channing over Oberto). Some of them will re-sign with their current teams, others will be looking for starter's minutes, but there are still several guys there that would be a big improvement at the back-up power forward position over what we had last season.

BNM

I agree he is not near my #1 choice, but lets rule out a ton of people on your list, and come up with a realistic one:

Players who will demand too much money for a backup PF:
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Early Termination Option)
Rasheed Wallace
Anderson Varejao (Player Option)
Drew Gooden
Carlos Boozer (Player Option)
Mehmet Okur (Early Termination Option
Lamar Odom

Players who probably don't want to come to Portland, bad character, or we've already tried out:
Brian Skinner (Player Option)
Antonio McDyess
Juwan Howard
Michael Ruffin
Chris Andersen


Remaining list in order (talent, experience, fit, and desired salary):
Brandon Bass
Fabricio Oberto
Shelden Williams
Mikki Moore
Chris Wilcox
Stromile Swift
Melvin Ely
Sean Marks
Shavlik Randolph
Zaza Pachulia (Not a PF)
Rasho Nesterovic (Not a PF)

Granted, there are a lot of assumptions and opinions based in my rankings, but I have him 2nd in all the available PF we could reasonably sign for backup money and who would likely accept a backup role.

 

[Blaze01]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Jefferson helps SA, they will be stronger next year...barring Duncan can stay healthy...to say that Jefferson doesn't improve the Spurs is a little ridiculous IMO....He makes them a better team...

Good trade for the Spurs....taking advantage of a team that is looking to shed salaries....

Pritchard apparently had the opportunity to acquire Jefferson, he chose not to, so we just have to hope he has bigger game in mind....

 

[bigbailes]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

If that's true, look for Bowen to be waived by the Bucks and go right back to the Spurs.

BNM

ding, ding, ding! wouldn't be surprised to see thomas go back as well. spurs hold on for two more runs than timmy will be looking to shut it down for good.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Something to consider...if Webster improves just a bit on his last healthy season, Portland could be making an "addition" of a similarly good player. And I'm one of the more skeptical posters here about Webster. But his PER was only about 3 below Jefferson's average PER for the past three seasons. A 3 PER gain for a player of Webster's age and experience wouldn't be that surprising, and Webster plays defense at least as well as Jefferson does now.

I had thought about that. But, what still swayed me, so far, to favor the Spurs, is that Manu only played in half their games last season.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

ding, ding, ding! wouldn't be surprised to see thomas go back as well. spurs hold on for two more runs than timmy will be looking to shut it down for good.

Thomas isn't likely going anywhere. They could cut him but they're paying all of that salary. His is fully guaranteed.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I had thought about that. But, what still swayed me, so far, to favor the Spurs, is that Manu only played in half their games last season.

Getting Manu back healthy will definitely improve them a lot. No arguments there, he's a very good player.

I think the Spurs will be better next season, assuming they remain healthy all season (at least, Duncan, Parker and Ginobili do). I just don't think Jefferson is going to upgrade them a lot. Unless something was causing him to regress the last few seasons that San Antonio can change.

 

[alex42083]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I trust that their braintrust of RC Buford and Poppovich know what they're doing down there. It's a low-risk, high-reward type move for the Spurs if their owner was right on board with it in paying for Jefferson.

 

[Tince]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I trust that their braintrust of RC Buford and Poppovich know what they're doing down there. It's a low-risk, high-reward type move for the Spurs if their owner was right on board with it in paying for Jefferson.

I agree..

If our window were clearly closing in the next two years, it would have made sense for us to get him at the trade deadline, but since it isn't, his salary just kills all flexibility.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

On a side note, Bruce Bowen anyone? He will more than likely be waived by the Bucks.

Great idea! He's so old & slow he'll need a walker to play. Even I could drive past him on a basketball court.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I just don't think Jefferson is going to upgrade them a lot. Unless something was causing him to regress the last few seasons that San Antonio can change.

Jefferson, according to 82games.com, while playing SF, produced a 16.2PER (above average starter). He held opposing SFs to 12.8PER.

The Spurs combined efforts last season at the 3 produced 11.9PER and the opposition produced 14.5PER.

Even if Jefferson performs at the same level as last year, he's already swinging them from a net loss to a net gain at that position. Almost 7PER swing.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I trust that their braintrust of RC Buford and Poppovich know what they're doing down there. It's a low-risk, high-reward type move for the Spurs if their owner was right on board with it in paying for Jefferson.

That is how I see it . . .

 

[THE HCP]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Just saw this. Great move by SA! I think that puts them past us next year. It did indeed thin their roster out, but with those 4 players on the same team, I don't think it will matter!

 

[andalusian]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Jefferson, according to 82games.com, while playing SF, produced a 16.2PER (above average starter). He held opposing SFs to 12.8PER.

The Spurs combined efforts last season at the 3 produced 11.9PER and the opposition produced 14.5PER.

Even if Jefferson performs at the same level as last year, he's already swinging them from a net loss to a net gain at that position. Almost 7PER swing.

I am going to go a limb here and suspect that R-Jeff will not have anywhere near the touches and shots in SAS behind Parker/TD/Manu to have this kind of a PER as he did as the Bucks #1 option on offense.

Will he be an upgrade in the wing? Probably. Will it be anywhere as big as that +7 PER swing - not very likely...

 

[LittleAlex]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Jefferson isn't a bad player, he's roughly average. I agree that it helps them if they get back Oberto and Bowen...he'll add to their depth. He's simply not an impact addition, IMO.

Something to consider...if Webster improves just a bit on his last healthy season, Portland could be making an "addition" of a similarly good player. And I'm one of the more skeptical posters here about Webster. But his PER was only about 3 below Jefferson's average PER for the past three seasons. A 3 PER gain for a player of Webster's age and experience wouldn't be that surprising, and Webster plays defense at least as well as Jefferson does now.

As I mentioned somewhere else, Webster is currently only cleared for walking drills.

I don't think you can count on Webster ever returning to pre-injury form. Which wasn't all that special, btw.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I am going to go a limb here and suspect that R-Jeff will not have anywhere near the touches and shots in SAS behind Parker/TD/Manu to have this kind of a PER as he did as the Bucks #1 option on offense.

Will he be an upgrade in the wing? Probably. Will it be anywhere as big as that +7 PER swing - not very likely...

Probably right, but Jefferson can then focus on other areas as well. I think when Jefferson's healthy and not the focus of the offense, he plays better. At least, he did in NJ.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Probably right, but Jefferson can then focus on other areas as well. I think when Jefferson's healthy and not the focus of the offense, he plays better. At least, he did in NJ.

It will be interesting to see if that is true. He was not the focus of the offense next to VC and J-Kidd (and for a bit last year next to VC/DH)- and he clearly declined, defensively. Maybe playing for Pop next to someone like TD will help him re-gain these prior strengths he had in the past - I would not be surprised if he regains some of it.

It is a good move for the Spurs, no doubt - but I am not sold on it bringing them back to contender status.