Merged: Nets trade Jefferson to Spurs

[Idog1976]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

That's why Micheal Finely's rotting corpse has been starting for the last couple of years even when Manu was healthy.

I LOL'd at that but then I thought about it...Sadly that rotting corpse cost us a likely trip to the 2nd round and possibly even the WCF depending on where Dallas fell.

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

As I mentioned somewhere else, Webster is currently only cleared for walking drills.

I don't think you can count on Webster ever returning to pre-injury form. Which wasn't all that special, btw.

I'm well aware that Webster was nothing special pre-injury. I'm one of the few posters who's willing to cut bait on him. But my point is that Jefferson has been nothing special the last few years either. If Webster isn't adversely affected by his injury (I've read nothing to suggest that he shouldn't recover 100%) and improves a bit, he and Jefferson won't be drastically different in production/defense (unless Jefferson recaptures his old form).

 

[Idog1976]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I like this move for SA and Milwaukie. I also like it because it puts pressure on Pritchard to act now. Better that we find out that Sessions is difficult to attain if not impossible now rather then when Pritchard is trying to cut a deal on draft day. It also lights a fire in the sense that it shows once again that other GM's aren't sleeping and we HAVE to make some moves if we want to compete. How are you gonna handle the pressure KP?

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Also, to clarify my position, I do think this is a good move by San Antonio. It's a very low-risk move and if they get Bowen and Oberto back, essentially a free pick-up in terms of talent. It's worth seeing, at that cost, if Jefferson can regain his old form or a significant portion of it.

The only real cost is his big salary, but if their owner is okay with that, it's no cost to the basketball team.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

It is a good move for the Spurs, no doubt - but I am not sold on it bringing them back to contender status.

Me neither. They were lucky to get #3 last year. This should keep them, for now, right where they ended last season. Unfortunately for them, I think Houston and Portland will get better next year. Damn I'm excited for next year.

 

[Crimson the Cat]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Spurs will likely be paying a few million more in luxury tax with this move. This is a bold statement from them to their fans/players that they're committed to winning. Pretty cool.

 

[STOMP]

Niether contract they traded for is guaranteed I believe.

there is a link to Storyteller's team salary breakdown on the top right of the page here at S2... it's under the dropdown Sportstwo

only Oberto's 3.5M is not guaranteed

STOMP

 

[STOMP]

I like this move for SA and Milwaukie. I also like it because it puts pressure on Pritchard to act now. Better that we find out that Sessions is difficult to attain if not impossible now rather then when Pritchard is trying to cut a deal on draft day. It also lights a fire in the sense that it shows once again that other GM's aren't sleeping and we HAVE to make some moves if we want to compete. How are you gonna handle the pressure KP?

if history is any lesson, he'll respond by kicking the crap out of everyone else. Dude has a lot of resources/assets at his disposal and the competition is rumored to be looking to slash salary. I expect draft day to be a prelude to his bigger move(s)

STOMP

 

[RR7]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Bowen is also not guaranteed.

 

[STOMP]

Bowen is also not guaranteed.

what are you siting? The link that I just relayed claims next year is guaranteed for him and it's been pretty accurate.

STOMP

 

[RR7]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

 

[LittleAlex]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I'm well aware that Webster was nothing special pre-injury. I'm one of the few posters who's willing to cut bait on him. But my point is that Jefferson has been nothing special the last few years either. If Webster isn't adversely affected by his injury (I've read nothing to suggest that he shouldn't recover 100%) and improves a bit, he and Jefferson won't be drastically different in production/defense (unless Jefferson recaptures his old form).

I was wrong about jump shots, but the following quote taken from a Blazersedge interview doesn't fill me with hope:

Are you 100%? "Not 100%. I'm not allowed to run and jump and dunk. I can shoot jump shots. It feels good. I'm kind of taking it at a 3 week process, checking it every 3 weeks to see how it's doing... right now I can do pool, jump shooting for 20 minutes, walking, walking is the most important thing, everyday I'm walking."

 

[Minstrel]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Slow recovery, but has anything been said about this being potentially career-altering? Most bone breaks aren't career-altering...tendons/ligaments are the really serious ones.

 

[Miksaid]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Mother bitches!!! I've had the biggest boner for Ramon Sessions. It's not going to be easy to part ways with my dreams of landing him.

 

[number 10]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I am going to go a limb here and suspect that R-Jeff will not have anywhere near the touches and shots in SAS behind Parker/TD/Manu to have this kind of a PER as he did as the Bucks #1 option on offense.

Will he be an upgrade in the wing? Probably. Will it be anywhere as big as that +7 PER swing - not very likely...

I may be wrong here, but I'd guess that a decline in his touches would improve his efficiency. Plus, he'll be playing with talented playmakers, as well as under one of the best coaches in the league. Maybe his overall production will decrease by I could see him even improving his efficiency. My guess is the Spurs help him return to something like his form back in the good old days with Kidd and the Nets. Good trade for them.

Mother bitches!!! I've had the biggest boner for Ramon Sessions. It's not going to be easy to part ways with my dreams of landing him.

My first thought as well. Even if Sessions was KP's 2nd, 3rd, or 4th choice, he was also maybe the easiest PG to obtain this summer. This hurts our leverage. Who knows though, maybe Sessions will refuse to sign with the Bucks and force a S&T to Portland or Atlanta (where he lives, IIRC) so he can play on a contender/playoff team.

 

[andalusian]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I may be wrong here, but I'd guess that a decline in his touches would improve his efficiency. Plus, he'll be playing with talented playmakers, as well as under one of the best coaches in the league. Maybe his overall production will decrease by I could see him even improving his efficiency. My guess is the Spurs help him return to something like his form back in the good old days with Kidd and the Nets. Good trade for them.

I would like to point that his efficiency as far as shooting percentages might go up - but his effectiveness per possession (which is what PER measures) will definitely go down if he does not get the shots/touches...

Maybe the word efficiency is the culprit here - but when discussing efficiency - you really need to determine what PER (the subject of this discussion) measures - and that is effectiveness per possession (it's not even per minute as some would assume - that's why pace is a component).

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I agree he is not near my #1 choice, but lets rule out a ton of people on your list, and come up with a realistic one:

Players who will demand too much money for a backup PF:
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (Early Termination Option)
Rasheed Wallace
Anderson Varejao (Player Option)
Drew Gooden
Carlos Boozer (Player Option)
Mehmet Okur (Early Termination Option
Lamar Odom

I'd love to have Varejao - great motor, decent rebounder, excellent defender, still young. Not sure why you ruled him out. He's basically been a career back-up and it's a role he's well suited to. We llikely have the cap space to get him - if that's how we want to spend our cap space.

Players who probably don't want to come to Portland, bad character, or we've already tried out:[/U]
Brian Skinner (Player Option)
Antonio McDyess
Juwan Howard
Michael Ruffin
Chris Andersen

I'm not sure why you ruled out McDyess and Howard. McDyess would actually be at the top of my list as a veteran back-up power forward. Even though he'll be 35 before the start of training camp, he was VERY productive in Detroit last season. He had a PER of 16.6 and an outstanding TRB% of 19.3. I'd love to get this guy on a 2-year guarannteed contract with a 3rd year team option. Depending on what happens with the draft and the PG situation, I would even use a large portion of our cap space to do so.

I'd rate Howard about equal to Oberto in terms of value/production. I'm not thrilled with either.

Remaining list in order (talent, experience, fit, and desired salary):[/U]
Brandon Bass
Fabricio Oberto
Shelden Williams
Mikki Moore
Chris Wilcox
Stromile Swift
Melvin Ely
Sean Marks
Shavlik Randolph
Zaza Pachulia (Not a PF)
Rasho Nesterovic (Not a PF)

Wow, you rate Oberto amazingly high. I'm not sure why. Have you looked at his stats? His production was abyssmal last season - a very low PER and an unimpressive TRB%. I'd honestly rank Shavlik Randolph ahead of Oberto. He's younger, likely cheaper, and will produce just as well, if not better. I'd also definitely rate Shelden Williams and Chris Wilcox above Oberto. I'd rate Swift and Marks about equal to Oberto - and wouldnt be thrilled with any of them.

I know he had a down year, but I'd rather have Channing Frye than Oberto (or Swift or Marks). His production last season was about equal to Oberto's, he's 8 years younger, and if the pattern continues, he's due to have a good season. He actually produced pretty well his first season in Portland (14.8 PER, 15.5 TRB% - pretty good numbers for a back-up 4). He also knows the system and is well liked.

Of course, I want somebody better than Channing Frye as our back-up power forward - which is EXACTLY why I don't want Fabricio Oberto. He's an older version of Channing Frye with greasy hair and an accent. I don't see that as an upgrade.

BNM

 

[SheedSoNasty]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Mother bitches!!! I've had the biggest boner for Ramon Sessions. It's not going to be easy to part ways with my dreams of landing him.

I liked Sessions, but definitely not that much. I've never been that excited about ANY NBA player.

I'm sure we'll be fine without him if we're not able to sign him. In KP we trust!

 

[hasoos]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I was wrong about jump shots, but the following quote taken from a Blazersedge interview doesn't fill me with hope:

I was watching the NBATV NW Division draft preview last night and The NBA director of scouting (Blake) and Fratello mentioned the Webster injury and the problems healing as reasons who he picked the Blazers to take. He was completely unsolicited, as I found several times during the various draft preview programs that little tidbits of information previously not discussed by the teams slipped out.

 

[Tince]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I'd love to have Varejao - great motor, decent rebounder, excellent defender, still young. Not sure why you ruled him out. He's basically been a career back-up and it's a role he's well suited to. We llikely have the cap space to get him - if that's how we want to spend our cap space.

I ruled out Varejao because of his past contract dispute and because the number of minutes he's getting in Cleveland. I think he'll want all of our cap money and there is no way KP would shell out that cash for a guy who is going to play more than 10mpg. Unless he already has a deal in place for Joel, which I don't think he does. I would bet everything I have that Varejao will not be on our team next season.

I'm not sure why you ruled out McDyess and Howard. McDyess would actually be at the top of my list as a veteran back-up power forward. Even though he'll be 35 before the start of training camp, he was VERY productive in Detroit last season. He had a PER of 16.6 and an outstanding TRB% of 19.3. I'd love to get this guy on a 2-year guarannteed contract with a 3rd year team option. Depending on what happens with the draft and the PG situation, I would even use a large portion of our cap space to do so.

I ruled out McDyess because he said he's either going to retire or finish his career out in Detroit. Even if he went somewhere else, he would only go to a team he thought could win a championship this year, and I doubt he thinks Portland can.

I understand why you think Oberto isn't good, and his stats last season were less than impressive. However, so were Howard's, so your criteria isn't very consistent. I always feel that players stats in San Antonio are diminished because of their system and their team approach.

I do not think Oberto is the 2nd most talented player on that list, but I think we could get him for cheaper than a lot of players I listed below him. He's a veteran despite not having played in the NBA for a long time, and would be happy to play 12mpg.

 

[hasoos]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I ruled out Varejao because of his past contract dispute and because the number of minutes he's getting in Cleveland. I think he'll want all of our cap money and there is no way KP would shell out that cash for a guy who is going to play more than 10mpg. Unless he already has a deal in place for Joel, which I don't think he does. I would bet everything I have that Varejao will not be on our team next season.



I ruled out McDyess because he said he's either going to retire or finish his career out in Detroit. Even if he went somewhere else, he would only go to a team he thought could win a championship this year, and I doubt he thinks Portland can.

I understand why you think Oberto isn't good, and his stats last season were less than impressive. However, so were Howard's, so your criteria isn't very consistent. I always feel that players stats in San Antonio are diminished because of their system and their team approach.

I do not think Oberto is the 2nd most talented player on that list, but I think we could get him for cheaper than a lot of players I listed below him. He's a veteran despite not having played in the NBA for a long time, and would be happy to play 12mpg.

You folks do know Oberto has a career threatening heart condition right? = Medical Retirement.

 

[STOMP]

http://www.storytellerscontracts.info/resources/08-09salaries.htm

http://www.shamsports.com/content/pages/data/salaries/spurs.jsp

.
thats odd. The Storyteller link through S2 tells a different tale...

STOMP

 

[RR7]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Odd. Although, in the story on ESPN, they also mention his unguaranteed deal. I would guess S2's storytellers link is the one that is wrong here.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I ruled out McDyess because he said he's either going to retire or finish his career out in Detroit. Even if he went somewhere else, he would only go to a team he thought could win a championship this year, and I doubt he thinks Portland can.

Detroit is in salary cutting/rebuilding mode. I doubt if they'll offer McDyess a contract that reflects his worth. Of course, there will be multiple contenders who would be able to offer him the MLE - but will they? And even if they do, Portland can offer more.

I understand why you think Oberto isn't good, and his stats last season were less than impressive. However, so were Howard's, so your criteria isn't very consistent.

My criteria is absolutely consistent. Here's what I wrote about Howard:

"I'd rate Howard about equal to Oberto in terms of value/production. I'm not thrilled with either."

I rate them the same (not very good) and don't really want either one.

BNM

 

[Tince]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Apparently Oberto is about on the same level as Amir Johnson, because he's already been traded from the Bucks to the Pistons.

I would have put Amir Johnson 2nd on that list as well, so I'm not too surprised with the trade.

Link

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Apparently Oberto is about on the same level as Amir Johnson, because he's already been traded from the Bucks to the Pistons.

I would have put Amir Johnson 2nd on that list as well, so I'm not too surprised with the trade.

Link

Johnson is both younger (a lot) and better (a little) than Oberto, but his production has steadily declined as is minutes have gone up. At 6'9" 210 lbs. he's not axactly the banger back-up power forward I'm hoping for.

BNM

 

[Tince]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

Johnson is both younger (a lot) and better (a little) than Oberto, but his production has steadily declined as is minutes have gone up. At 6'9" 210 lbs. he's not axactly the banger back-up power forward I'm hoping for.

BNM

I don't agree with your opinion he is a lot better, but I'll agree he's younger.

 

[anonymous gambler]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I've got to say that I'm pretty happy for the Spurs- they should return to the elite (assuming Gin

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I don't agree with your opinion he is a lot better, but I'll agree he's younger.

Read what I wrote. I said he was a little better.

Doesn't matter. This trade wasn't about talent. It was a salary dump by the Pistons, who immediately waived Oberto.

BNM

 

[hasoos]

Re: Spurs nets trade Jefferson to spurs

I'm not convinced this makes San Antonio markedly better. Does Ginobli start or Jefferson start? If both of them start, who gets the shots between Parker, Ginobli, Jefferson and Duncan? And if both of them start, where's their punch off of the bench? I suppose Roger Mason Jr. and George Hill, but that's putting a lot on their shoulders.

Bowen served a great role for that team, always guarding the other team's playmaker on defense and keeping the floor spread so Duncan, Ginobli and Parker could operate in the interior on offense.

Not to mention they traded away their front line depth. Better hope Timmy holds up.

I guess the Spurs had to get more athletic, but I don't know that they jump us with this move.

-Pop

Greg Popovich is the coach. Why bother worrrying? I would ask you this. When was the last time the San Antonio Spurs fucked up bringing in an experienced veteran who didn't fit their system? The last one I remember was Dennis Rodman. That was a hell of a long time ago, and I cannot recall one error since then. Since then all I can remember is success. Finley. Thomas. Roger Mason. Brent Berry. I wouldn't be worried if I were them. They just got back into it.