Merged: The Draft Thread For Stuff About The Draft Including Thoughts About The Draft

[chzbrgr]

I agree we need some major changes, either in the form of another star player (like Paul George), or multiple 2-way players at the forward positions (either through the draft or via trades).

But, I think the addition of Nurk gets us one significant step closer. He's a third piece, that makes us better on both ends of the floor, and we needed that a LOT. You need to walk before you can run, and with Nurk at least we are walking upright. Now we need to find that 4th piece and then the 5th piece. Vonleh has potential, but right now I don't really consider any of our forwards worthy of starting for a contending team.

Unless we see further upgrades, I see our eventual peak as a 4th or 5th seed with 50 - 54 wins. To get to contender status we need more than organic growth of our existing pieces. Neil has assets, most importantly 3 first round picks in a very deep draft. He needs another home run (Paul George) or at least a pair of ground rule doubles (two starting quality forwards).

BNM

Agreed we needed nurk like my white ass needed sunscreen this weekend but it didnt stop me from getting burnt. Just like Nurk can fix a glaring hole but there's like 3 more glaring holes. Patience I know, I need to learn some, but man it seems like we've been back pedaling for a while now that even the steps forward look bleak. Defense and scoring from the wing. Competent forward play. A bench worth a damn. These are not high bars we are setting here and now 20mil deep into the Luxury tax and we aren't close to a top 5 team in the nba.

Asking neil to hit for the cycle in the draft is unlikely at best and not fair to the crapshoot that is drafting in the NBA. Most likely we get maybe one starting caliber player out of the three with an outside chance at a fringe allstar. That doesnt really seem like a way out of purgatory. We gotta move up and see if we can package for someone with a higher ceiling than that. I dont know we have much of a choice with something like 15 players under contract for next year.

As for the Paul George/Disgruntled Allstar pipe dream scenario (which I love) is that a pipe dream. We love to talk about them but when it comes down to it we do not have the assets that other teams do. We can make a bunch of sideways moves but not much that 'moves the needle'

 

[BonesJones]

Agreed we needed nurk like my white ass needed sunscreen this weekend but it didnt stop me from getting burnt. Just like Nurk can fix a glaring hole but there's like 3 more glaring holes. Patience I know, I need to learn some, but man it seems like we've been back pedaling for a while now that even the steps forward look bleak. Defense and scoring from the wing. Competent forward play. A bench worth a damn. These are not high bars we are setting here and now 20mil deep into the Luxury tax and we aren't close to a top 5 team in the nba.

Asking neil to hit for the cycle in the draft is unlikely at best and not fair to the crapshoot that is drafting in the NBA. Most likely we get maybe one starting caliber player out of the three with an outside chance at a fringe allstar. That doesnt really seem like a way out of purgatory. We gotta move up and see if we can package for someone with a higher ceiling than that. I dont know we have much of a choice with something like 15 players under contract for next year.

As for the Paul George/Disgruntled Allstar pipe dream scenario (which I love) is that a pipe dream. We love to talk about them but when it comes down to it we do not have the assets that other teams do. We can make a bunch of sideways moves but not much that 'moves the needle'

What other assets will a team offer that's better than ours?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Agreed we needed nurk like my white ass needed sunscreen this weekend but it didnt stop me from getting burnt. Just like Nurk can fix a glaring hole but there's like 3 more glaring holes. Patience I know, I need to learn some, but man it seems like we've been back pedaling for a while now that even the steps forward look bleak. Defense and scoring from the wing. Competent forward play. A bench worth a damn. These are not high bars we are setting here and now 20mil deep into the Luxury tax and we aren't close to a top 5 team in the nba.

Asking neil to hit for the cycle in the draft is unlikely at best and not fair to the crapshoot that is drafting in the NBA. Most likely we get maybe one starting caliber player out of the three with an outside chance at a fringe allstar. That doesnt really seem like a way out of purgatory. We gotta move up and see if we can package for someone with a higher ceiling than that. I dont know we have much of a choice with something like 15 players under contract for next year.

As for the Paul George/Disgruntled Allstar pipe dream scenario (which I love) is that a pipe dream. We love to talk about them but when it comes down to it we do not have the assets that other teams do. We can make a bunch of sideways moves but not much that 'moves the needle'

Other than BOS (who has proven reluctant to trade anything of value), who has better assets to help IND jump start their rebuild? We can offer them 3 picks in this draft, plus one in 2019 plus any player/players of their choice, other than Dame, C.J. and Nurkic, to make the salaries match. We can also take back some of their old guys who are of no use to them if they hit the reset button. This may be a pipe dream, but IND now seems determined to trade George and his value is lower than it was at the trade deadline when ATL offer a package of four lesser draft picks.

If I'm Neil, I'm going all in and swinging for the fences on this one. This is our best chance to add another all star, who is the same age as our best player. He's a great 2-way player who also fills a position of need and one of the few players in the league that can do a respectable job of guarding LeBron and Kevin Durant.

It may not happen, but you have to try and if you try, you have to try HARD.

BNM

 

[BonesJones]

I wonder if you could make a future pick conditional upon PG resigning.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I wonder if you could make a future pick conditional upon PG resigning.

I don't think you can do that. I've never heard of that happening. If it was allowable, you think someone would have tried it by now.

BNM

 

[santeesioux]

We're doing the same thing we do every year, we hype ourselves up for something big to happen every summer, and then we get completely deflated when we get disappointed. We're all expecting George, and we'll probably end up with some bench guy for all of our picks.

 

[BonesJones]

We're doing the same thing we do every year, we hype ourselves up for something big to happen every summer, and then we get completely deflated when we get disappointed. We're all expecting George, and we'll probably end up with some bench guy for all of our picks.

I think it'll be somewhere in between.

 

[oldfisherman]

Just as a point of reference.
There where 14 picks traded during the 2016 draft night process (does not include future draft picks traded, only 2016 picks). Some of the pick trades included veteran players.

Here is a list of first round picks traded
8, 11, 12, 13, 20, & 22,

Second round picks traded.
31, 33, 33, 39, 40, 42, 47 (Blazers buy pick 47 and take Jake Layman), & 55

Plus I believe the Derrick Rose for ROLO+ trade was made on draft night, but did not include any 2016 picks, just a future pick.

That is a lot of action for one day.


Let me know if there are any mistakes. Some of the trade reports where difficult to follow.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Stan,
How about an athletic 7' who can sing all of the songs at a Justin Bieber concert? We'll throw in pick #26, too!

Pistons Interested In Trading No. 12 Pick For Established Player
MAY 30, 2017 3:54 PM

The Detroit Pistons have interest in trading the 12th overall pick in exchange for an established player.

The Pistons received little production out of their first round picks from the past two seasons during the 16-17 season as Stanley Johnson and Henry Ellenson struggled to make an impact.

Stan Van Gundy is entering his fourth season with the Pistons and the team has made just one playoff appearance.

 

[BonesJones]

Harkless, Aminu and 20 for 12.

12, 15, 26.

 

[Reep]

Harkless, Aminu and 20 for 12.

12, 15, 26.

Even better if you could somehow trade 12 + 26 and something for 7-10. My concern with just having 12 is I think the trade-up guys we would want will be taken by 10 and the fall-backs will be available at 15. But, anything you can do to trade up should be looked at.

12 and 15 might get you:
12: Mitchel, OG or Jackson
15: Ike, Allen or Patton

12 + 15 could get you in the 5-7 range.

Would you rather have Jackson and Ike (or some other combo of the above); or
one of Isaac, Markkanen or ZCollins?

I would probably trade 12 + 15 if I could get to Isaac and then use 26 to pick a project center.

 

[Trackjack]

I wouldn't trade up for Markkanen at all. I believe he is one way player at that only on the offense side.

 

[theprunetang]

I wouldn't trade up for Markkanen at all. I believe he is one way player at that only on the offense side.

Best case scenario, he becomes Ryan Anderson. I wouldn't trade anything of too much value for that. He is the guy in this draft I would least like to draft as far as 1-26.

 

[riverman]

I've read a lot of articles saying there's just not much huge difference in the top 30 players in this draft...I wouldn't know but I wouldn't have Ball or Collins in the top 10 on my board..I think this is a season where the top ten will be peppered with hype and a smart GM will do well with all 3 picks in the first round.

 

[tester551]

This may be a pipe dream, but IND now seems determined to trade George and his value is lower than it was at the trade deadline when ATL offer a package of four lesser draft picks.

BNM

Where have you seen that stated? Everything I've seen is from teams wanting him - not any Pacer centric rumors

 

[riverman]

Harkless, Crabbe and Leonard and a higher pick for Philly's number 3 and Dario Saric...throw in a Layman or Quarterman

 

[Boob-No-More]

Where have you seen that stated? Everything I've seen is from teams wanting him - not any Pacer centric rumors

I saw several articles after he did not make one of the All NBA teams that the Pacers lost their ability to offer him a super max extension this summer and would look to move him rather than risk losing him for nothing next summer. That was their only advantage in resigning him - they could offer him about $80 million more than anyone else. When he didn't make All NBA, they cost that advantage - for now. He could still qualify for a super max next summer by making one of the All NBA teams, but if he doesn't, he's gone and IND gets nothing. Given that he didn't make it this year, that's a REALLY big risk to bank on him making it next year.

BNM

 

[BBert]

Hey, Indiana. Take my advice: Trade PG while you can still get something for him. Don't let yourself get LaMarcussed.

Trail Blazers on line 1.

 

[riverman]

Stan,
How about an athletic 7' who can sing all of the songs at a Justin Bieber concert? We'll throw in pick #26, too!

Stan likes short pt guards who play defense...Napier types...he'd love Turner or Crabbe as well

 

[Reep]

Paul George as a Blazer will be very binary. All our picks and anything not named Dame, CJ or Nurk will get it done, or it won't. Not much discussion to be had. If the answer is no, then you do the draft. Am I wrong?

 

[rotary111]

Harkless, Crabbe and Leonard and a higher pick for Philly's number 3 and Dario Saric...throw in a Layman or Quarterman

Saric would be a steal. I doubt they would bite on it but it would be a great trade for us.

Then trade 3 for 5 and 10 and 34.

Pick 5 Isaac (Assuming Tatum and Jackson are gone.)
10 Collins or BPA
34 BPA

 

[JDC]

I bet Kadeem Allen doesn't get drafted. Would be a good guy to pick up as an undrafted free agent.

He might but I think his combination of defensive tools, IQ and mentality (which are all elite) paired with the potential to provide offensive value within the team construct as a spot up shooter / secondary playmaker makes him well worth a shot in the 45-60 range.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Here is the "What if the Lakers did pass on Ball?" mock draft. I don't agree with some of the ideas he has for us but it's always for discussion I guess.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2017/5/...raft-2017-lakers-chaos-lonzo-ball-deaaron-fox

15. Portland Trail Blazers: Ivan Rabb, PF/C, Cal
The Blazers have three picks in the first round: Nos. 15, 20, and 26. They do not have a ton of roster spots, so chances are there will be some sort of trade and/or stash pick. Outside of that, this might be a good spot for Rabb, who went back to Cal and suffered for it. Rabb has tools Portland could use, and the Blazers have shown an affinity for Cal products (Allen Crabbe) and Oakland natives (Damian Lillard). What is a mock draft if not a reading of irrelevant tea leaves?

20. Portland Trail Blazers: Tony Bradley, C, North Carolina
Here’s a big bet: Bradley will go before Justin Jackson, because upside still matters. The leading mocks have Bradley in the second round after his decision to leave Carolina as the school’s first one-and-done since Marvin Williams. But the fact that he left tells me he has first-round promise. It might as well be from a team with three first-round picks, as well as needs up front.

26. Portland Trail Blazers: Zach Collins, C, Gonzaga
There has been a run on Collinses! Some mocks have Collins going in the top 10, and he probably does have a better chance at having a good NBA career than a number of guys above him in this mock. But it’s a struggle to imagine what a successful NBA career looks like for a guy like Collins — not particularly agile or fast, no real record of a great outside stroke, not someone who scores at will against even smaller competitors, clunky handle — in the modern league.

 

[Reep]

They lost me at Zach Collins at 26. No Way In Hell.

 

[Sarni]

They lost me at Zach Collins at 26. No Way In Hell.

Yeah that's one baffling mock draft. Ivan Rabb going 11 spots ahead of Zach Collins?

They have Jeanne going at 9 before Smith at 10 and Monk at 11. Also, somehow Ntilikina goes 6th and Markkanen goes 7th despite Ball available.

Pasenciks at 14 is also baffling.

 

[Scalma]

Rabb will drop to the second imo

 

[Sarni]

Rabb will drop to the second imo

That's possible. He doesn't really have an all-round game that would be very appealing to NBA teams these days. He rebounds well but he doesn't score, he doesn't stretch the floor, he is not even good at free throws. Maybe there's some untapped potential there but he hasn't shown much from what I gather.

 

[Sarni]

Harkless, Crabbe and Leonard and a higher pick for Philly's number 3 and Dario Saric...throw in a Layman or Quarterman

How is that appealing for Philadelphia though? They get a small forward who is worse than the two they have, an overpaid shooting guard and #15 pick, and they give up #3 pick that could be any of Fox, Jackson or Tatum (all project to be very good in the league) and one of top 5 power forward talents in the league. Oh, and they'll also absorb one of the worst deals in the league in Leonard. But don't worry, we can compensate that by giving them undrafted point guard who's played less than 50 minutes in the league, or a #47 pick from 2016.

Why don't we offer #26 and Leonard to Boston for #1 while we are at it?

All ideas that are built around Leonard (or even Crabbe) having any value are bonkers IMO. Harkless is the only one in there who might actually fetch us something nice (maybe) in return. Crabbe could maybe get us into early 2nd round. Leonard we'll not be able to get rid of unless for salary matching purposes. Indiana wouldn't even trade Al Jefferson alone for him and we are talking about us doing them a favor by such trade.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

7 ways to screw up drafting:

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-potential-draft-busts/

 

[BigGameDamian]