Merged: The Draft Thread For Stuff About The Draft Including Thoughts About The Draft

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RR7 said:
I can't see Orlando being super interested in our 3 picks for 6, personally. They have enough ok guys on their team. But, maybe if it was a 2 step process. 15 and Harkless to NYK for 8, and then 8 and 26 for 6?
And agree on Isaac over Markannen
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It would be hilarious if we traded our 3 picks + HARKLESS (back to them) for #6 :)
 
BonesJones said:
Because he can spot up? Is that all you value?
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If you think Kennard is strictly a spot up shooter, then you've probably never actually seen him play. He's very good with the ball in his hands. Multi dimensional scorer. He's not a point guard but he can create for himself, and others.
 
Scalma said:
If you think Kennard is strictly a spot up shooter, then you've probably never actually seen him play. He's very good with the ball in his hands. Multi dimensional scorer. He's not a point guard but he can create for himself, and others.
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If you really think that will translate well to the NBA you're delusional. He doesn't have the speed or handles to consistently get by defenders. He'll be an awful defender as well. He's an undersized SG.

We need two-way players.
 
BonesJones said:
If you really think that will translate well to the NBA you're delusional. He doesn't have the speed or handles to consistently get by defenders. He'll be an awful defender as well. He's an undersized SG.

We need two-way players.
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Kennard dictates pace. He's intelligent. A good, crafty ball handler. Understands how to operate a pick. Was top 5 in the country in pick and roll scoring. Has a quick release. You don't need to be a great athlete to create your own shot. Just look at CJ.

Now come back with something a little better than "you're delusional."
 
Scalma said:
Kennard dictates pace. He's intelligent. A good, crafty ball handler. Understands how to operate a pick. Was top 5 in the country in pick and roll scoring. Has a quick release. You don't need to be a great athlete to create your own shot. Just look at CJ.

Now come back with something a little better than "you're delusional."
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You really think he's a good ball-handler? Seriously? He's an extremely rudimentary ball handler.

A lot of his mid range looks in college came from slow, methodical drives and bumping guys away from him to create space. Guess what, against quicker stronger wings, he won't be able to slowly and methodically go at them, and he won't get enough space by bumping them, as he's not extremely strong.

He struggles to change pace so I don't know how you can claim he "dictates pace". He doesn't play at a speed that's uncomfortable for him, and his solid with the ball, so if that's what you mean by "dictate pace" then I guess.

He'll still be an awful defender. I know you don't value defense at all, but it's important. He's basically J.J. Redick, and if J.J. Redick didn't shoot 40%+ from 3pt he'd be a below-average NBA player. Kennard might be a 40% 3pt shooter, and he'll have to be to have any sort of value in the NBA.

We need two-way players.
 
BonesJones said:
You really think he's a good ball-handler? Seriously? He's an extremely rudimentary ball handler.

A lot of his mid range looks in college came from slow, methodical drives and bumping guys away from him to create space. Guess what, against quicker stronger wings, he won't be able to slowly and methodically go at them, and he won't get enough space by bumping them, as he's not extremely strong.

He struggles to change pace so I don't know how you can claim he "dictates pace". He doesn't play at a speed that's uncomfortable for him, and his solid with the ball, so if that's what you mean by "dictate pace" then I guess.

He'll still be an awful defender. I know you don't value defense at all, but it's important. He's basically J.J. Redick, and if J.J. Redick didn't shoot 40%+ from 3pt he'd be a below-average NBA player. Kennard might be a 40% 3pt shooter, and he'll have to be to have any sort of value in the NBA.

We need two-way players.
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I was waiting for that lazy JJ Redick comp. I'm literally laughing. They're nothing alike. Try looking past that subconscious stereotype. I can't take any of this seriously anymore. Sorry.
 
Yeah, Luke isn't JJ. Vastly different offensive skillsets, and I think JJ's speed allows him be both a more effective defender chasing shooters around screens and that speed plus the elevation he gets on his jumper makes him a more dynamic shooter off the ball and on the move.

But I think it's fair to question how much creation potential Luke has at the NBA level. Tried to watch the games where he went up against good, athletic defenders and he struggled to get shots off in those type of matchups. Doesn't create much separation, can't get all the way to the rim and can also get sped up.

But if he is great shooter and can translate his ball handling and ok passing into some pnr scorer/secondary playmaker utility, he could be a rotation player on a good team. Problem is is even if he does reach his peak (whatever that ends up being), I don't think we have the right mix of talent to support his theoretical skillset and is ultimately a guy we wouldn't be able to play much if we are trying to compete with GS.
 
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I agree, Luke isn't JJ and that might just be part of the problem. Redick can at least play passable D.
 
Lots of rumors that Lakers will take Fox instead of Ball. I would be very surprised if that happens.

Fox will IMO fall to Kings. BTW Kings future looks very interesting, they already got their shooting guard of the future in Hield and one of their centers will probably turn out to be good. They should get their PG in this draft and might even get a shot at small forward with a bit of luck. I wonder what they do with #5 - take Tatum if available and hope that Ntilikina or Smith fall to 10? IMO safer bet is taking Fox or Smith at #5 and then Markkanen or Isaac at #10. Fox + Markkanen would be beautiful set up for them. They will probably have a top 5 pick next season and could get small forward then. Fox, Hield and Markkanen is a good platform for the future.
 
Scalma said:
I was waiting for that lazy JJ Redick comp. I'm literally laughing. They're nothing alike. Try looking past that subconscious stereotype. I can't take any of this seriously anymore. Sorry.
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LMAO Stereotype?

They're both unathletic, short-armed SGs from Duke, who's biggest strength is the catch-and-shoot, who both are very poor defenders who struggle creating against NBA level competition. Lots of comparison there.
 
BonesJones said:
LMAO Stereotype?

They're both unathletic, short-armed SGs from Duke, who's biggest strength is the catch-and-shoot, who both are very poor defenders who struggle creating against NBA level competition. Lots of comparison there.
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Duh, Reddick has dark hair ?!??!
 
I like Jawun, but not for us. Still contend that we need a versatile point of attack defender + shooting at that 3rd guard spot.

And if we are drafting for that skillset, Donovan Mitchell and Kadeem Allen make the most sense for us.
 
no real opinion on allen at all, but if Mitchell is still on the board @ 15, no hesitation, you pick him cause I can't imagine anyone better dropping to us. BPA period, not position of need.
 
lawai'a said:
no real opinion on allen at all, but if Mitchell is still on the board @ 15, no hesitation, you pick him cause I can't imagine anyone better dropping to us. BPA period, not position of need.
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I'm more worried about Smith or Monk dropping to us at 15.

I'm not quite as certain about Mitchell. He is 1/2" shorter than Dame you know. He does have a good standing reach, but only 1/2" more than CJ. Not sure I'm ready to spend our highest pick on another short 2-guard. I would rather take a chance on someone a bit bigger.
 
The funny part about the redick comp is that Redick is Kennards FLOOR, if literally all the other parts of his game didn't translate to the NBA (things redick never showed in college btw)

You could also make an argument that Kennard could actually be a better shooter than Redick. His true shooting % as a sophomore was equal to Redicks crazy senior season.

Redick was a lottery pick and is one of the best role players in the league. We should consider ourselves lucky if we landed someone as good as him. "We need two way players." Is there a team that doesn't? Doesn't work like that, and maybe I'm blind, but I'm pretty sure our lack of outside shooting has killed us in the playoffs. You telling me Redick wouldn't be a difference maker? Ok.
 
Reep said:
I'm more worried about Smith or Monk dropping to us at 15.

I'm not quite as certain about Mitchell. He is 1/2" shorter than Dame you know. He does have a good standing reach, but only 1/2" more than CJ. Not sure I'm ready to spend our highest pick on another short 2-guard. I would rather take a chance on someone a bit bigger.
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Reep said:
I'm more worried about Smith or Monk dropping to us at 15.

I'm not quite as certain about Mitchell. He is 1/2" shorter than Dame you know. He does have a good standing reach, but only 1/2" more than CJ. Not sure I'm ready to spend our highest pick on another short 2-guard. I would rather take a chance on someone a bit bigger.
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listed at 15#'s heavier than cj's combine weight and acknowledged as an aggressive and very good defender out of the gate. guarded 1's, 2's and occasionally 3's for pitino. all acc defense, averaged 2.6 steals per 40, and the 40.5 inch vertical. shot the hell out of the 3 at the combine work outs. I think he is ready to contribute now more so than many of the other freshmen bigs available then. much better athletic measurable than Jackson if he is there at 15. I think of him in terms of a stronger Patrick Beverley currently and avery Bradley potentially.
 
As currently projected, if the Blazers came away with Anunoby, Giles and Pasecniks, down the road, that could have good returns.

OG could be a defensive terror that aggressively attacks the basket. Giles is one of the more talented players in the Draft who has fallen due to injury and so far is limited to what he can do. (only 27" vertical so far in his rehab stage). Pasecniks is one of those skilled Euro bigs that you always wonder how they will translate from a physical standpoint because it is a different type of game here.
 
Scalma said:
The funny part about the redick comp is that Redick is Kennards FLOOR, if literally all the other parts of his game didn't translate to the NBA (things redick never showed in college btw)

You could also make an argument that Kennard could actually be a better shooter than Redick. His true shooting % as a sophomore was equal to Redicks crazy senior season.

Redick was a lottery pick and is one of the best role players in the league. We should consider ourselves lucky if we landed someone as good as him. "We need two way players." Is there a team that doesn't? Doesn't work like that, and maybe I'm blind, but I'm pretty sure our lack of outside shooting has killed us in the playoffs. You telling me Redick wouldn't be a difference maker? Ok.
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So if nothing else translates, Kennard (a 38% 3pt shooter over 2 college seasons) will at least be as good of a shooter as Redick (a 42% 3pt shooter over 11 NBA seasons)? Whatever you say dude.

Redick was the #1 offensive weapon his senior season, and didn't have shit around him. Meanwhile, Kennard had the weapons of Tatum, Allen and Jackson to play off of and spread the court for him. With that being said, Redick scored 27ppg on his 63% TS% compared to Kennards 19ppg. Also, with less offensive talent around him, Redick averaged the same amount of assists. You cherry-picked the TS% stat while ignoring the context behind it.

Even with that, Redick was a mediocre NBA player for his first 5 years. Kennard hasn't shown anything to say he'll be anywhere near as good of a shooter as Redick, and hasn't down shown he'll be better in any other aspect.

Redick is his ceiling, not his floor.
 
I'd love to draft a guard with two-way potential, because I think Dame and CJ could really teach them how to be a complete player offensively.

Monk, Smith, Mitchell, or F.Jackson would do great under the tutelage of McLillard.
 
BonesJones said:
So if nothing else translates, Kennard (a 38% 3pt shooter over 2 college seasons) will at least be as good of a shooter as Redick (a 42% 3pt shooter over 11 NBA seasons)? Whatever you say dude.

Redick was the #1 offensive weapon his senior season, and didn't have shit around him. Meanwhile, Kennard had the weapons of Tatum, Allen and Jackson to play off of and spread the court for him. With that being said, Redick scored 27ppg on his 63% TS% compared to Kennards 19ppg. Also, with less offensive talent around him, Redick averaged the same amount of assists. You cherry-picked the TS% stat while ignoring the context behind it.

Even with that, Redick was a mediocre NBA player for his first 5 years. Kennard hasn't shown anything to say he'll be anywhere near as good of a shooter as Redick, and hasn't down shown he'll be better in any other aspect.

Redick is his ceiling, not his floor.
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LOL I cherry picked a stat? He played two seasons. It took him a year to adjust to college, sorry if I don't hold that against him. Despite all the talent around him, he was still Dukes go to guy. The offense ran through him.

I still don't buy that you've actually seen him play. From your first comment to the Redick comp, it all seems lazy, and contrived.
 
I'll call it now; Kennard goes before the Blazers are on the clock, assuming they don't trade up/out.
 
Scalma said:
LOL I cherry picked a stat? He played two seasons. It took him a year to adjust to college, sorry if I don't hold that against him. Despite all the talent around him, he was still Dukes go to guy. The offense ran through him.

I still don't buy that you've actually seen him play. From your first comment to the Redick comp, it all seems lazy, and contrived.
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I've watched him play, I just don't fantasize about limited offensive players who play no defense.

My statements are lazy and contrived? You're the one saying shit like "Despite all the talent around him, he was still Dukes go to guy. The offense ran through him." even though Allen and Tatum had higher higher usage rates than him.

Conveniently, you ignore the one season where he shoots 31% from 3pt but take in to account the season which you think supports your weak ass argument the best.
 
Scalma Logic in 2015: "Meyers shooting 42% from 3pt his 3rd year means Dirk is his floor, as Dirk never shot 42% from 3pt, and because the legend just needed 2 years to adjust to the NBA game. Now that he shot good for a year, we know what he is, and what he is, is a great 3pt shooter and 50/40/90 guy. He doesn't play defense, but who cares... defense doesn't score points, and whoever scores the most points wins."
 
I think its funny that this dude has been talking shit to other people lately, and is now coming up with lazy ass bullshit reasons why Luke Kennard's floor is a prime J.J. Redick.

And then when I call him out on this BS, he suggests I haven't watched Kennard play even though I watched at least 10x more college basketball than him in the past season.
 
BonesJones said:
I've watched him play, I just don't fantasize about limited offensive players who play no defense.

My statements are lazy and contrived? You're the one saying shit like "Despite all the talent around him, he was still Dukes go to guy. The offense ran through him." even though Allen and Tatum had higher higher usage rates than him.

Conveniently, you ignore the one season where he shoots 31% from 3pt but take in to account the season which you think supports your weak ass argument the best.
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Yeah I ignored his freshman season, and focused on the most recent one. How irresponsible of me.

I could say the same about you btw. Are you really trying to argue that Kennard wasn't Dukes best, most consistent player this season? He was their MVP, I don't know how that could even be argued. But I guess you can throw that cherry picked usage stat at me.
 
Scalma said:
Yeah I ignored his freshman season, and focused on the most recent one. How irresponsible of me.

I could say the same about you btw. Are you really trying to argue that Kennard wasn't Dukes best, most consistent player this season? He was their MVP, I don't know how that could even be argued. But I guess you can throw that cherry picked usage stat at me.
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Cherry-picking stats is when you pick a stat that on the surface, makes your argument look stronger, but ignore the context that plays a factor in that stat and would make your argument look weaker.

For example, you cherry-pick the TS% stat and say "Kennard's and Redick's TS% were even". However, you ignore the context of: Redick scored 8 more ppg on more shots and had less talent around him to take the pressure off of him and to set him up for shots. That context makes Redick's TS% much more impressive than Kennards.

What context am I ignoring when it comes to the usage stat? You said that the offense ran through Kennard the most, but the usage stat said two of his teammates used more possessions than Kennard did, thus the offense ran more through them than Kennard. What context am I missing? I'm not saying who was the best player on the team, I'm simply proving your vague, bullshit statement wrong with a statistic.
 
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