Merged: Wallace and Butler and RJeff, oh, my!

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Re: Chad Ford: Three players on Pritchard's radar screen

MIXUM said:
Butler and Wallace are the top 2 targets. Problem is they want us to take bad contracts back while giving up youth.

Jefferson is the last resort. If both of the above fail.... hes our new SF. Thats how i see it this AM.
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I agree, I think at this point the team that budges on wanting to include a bad contract is the one that gets RLEC.
 
Re: Chad Ford: Three players on Pritchard's radar screen

well we cant have both so im guessing we either take a bad contract back or part with batum, sergio or outlaw. not all of them but def 1 or 2.

none are any major loss. its just homers in love with every player on our roster who has potential. they should call john nash for some consoling.
 
MIXUM said:
Butler and Wallace are the top 2 targets. Problem is they want us to take bad contracts back while giving up youth.

Jefferson is the last resort. If both of the above fail.... hes our new SF. Thats how i see it this AM.
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I'd rather stand pat and make moves this offseason then settle for RJ. The Bucks would have to include their #1

STOMP
 
Re: Chad Ford: Three players on Pritchard's radar screen

STOMP said:
I'd rather stand pat and make moves this offseason then settle for RJ. The Bucks would have to include their #1

STOMP
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Sounds like a great plan considering you don't have that mass amount of cap anymore
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

i must buck the trend. either would be nice, but i think wallace is the better overall fit for us. butler has better range, but wallace actually has a slight edge in scoring efficiency (gets to the line a LOT more per touch). butler is probably a little bit better passer, but not significantly.

most critical IMO is that wallace is a significantly better defender and shot blocker, and his overall positive effect on his team's performance is statistically much greater.
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

I have seen a lot more of the "package" necessary to get Wallace than the "package' necessary to get Butler. I would like to know what is actually offered before making a judgement. From what I have seen on various sites, it seems Portland really has to give up very little for Wallace, and takes back no bad contracts. The Washington trade on the other hand, has Etan Thomas as a piece. In some ways I think the team could use an Etan Thomas. He has a mean streak and is tough, even if overpaid.

So either way, I think the Blazers make out good. But you know how it is, they probably will do nothing, and leave the fans to be sitting in dismay once again.
 
Re: Chad Ford: Three players on Pritchard's radar screen

yah lets continue to hear CLANK everytime batum shoots and averages 4 fucking points anight.

amazing how many people dont get it. YOU CANT HAVE YOUR SF GET 4 POINTS A NIGHT. We will never beat good offensive teams with that production.
 
Re: Chad Ford: Three players on Pritchard's radar screen

If I were GM and Butler were on the table, my first reaction would be this:

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Then I would ask them if I could take every bad contract they had, maybe clean their executive washroom and eat a live cockroach for their amusement.

And I think that may be one reason of many that Pritchard is the GM and I am not. It seems like he's playing these three teams off each other to get the best deal possible.
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

crowTrobot said:
most critical IMO is that wallace is a significantly better defender and shot blocker, and his overall positive effect on his team's performance is statistically much greater.
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Oden. Aldridge. Wallace. Roy. Average age is like 23.5. I can't get my head around how great this group can be defensively with just a year under their belts playing together, let alone in their primes!
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

Crimson the Cat said:
Oden. Aldridge. Wallace. Roy. Average age is like 23.5. I can't get my head around how great this group can be defensively with just a year under their belts playing together, let alone in their primes!
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I agree in many ways. The rebounding Wallace would bring would help out a ton. The other thing I look at and drool is his efficiency rating. +19. The concerns being the 3 point shooting. That is not huge, because he really doesn't take a lot of 3's. He more than makes up for that on the defensive end.
 
Re: Chad Ford: Three players on Pritchard's radar screen

mook said:
And I think that may be one reason of many that Pritchard is the GM and I am not. It seems like he's playing these three teams off each other to get the best deal possible.
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Yeah, it sounds like he is trying to get Butler without giving up Bayless or taking on another really bad contract, or Wallace without Mohamed. Whichever comes through first gets the big RLEC prize. Nice position to be in.
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

Ok when looking at the number, I found one that jumps out on me. Butler averages about twice as many assists as Wallace. I think that will be very important for getting our bigs involved.
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

Wallace Pros:
-doesn't need plays run for him to be effective
-The dude is NASSSSSTTTTY!
-incredible finisher in transition
-Going to be a lot cheaper in terms of trade assets to get than Butler
-Younger then Butler
-Plays like Ray Lewis

Wallace Cons:
-Not exactly a lights out perimeter shooter
-How effective would he be in a slow paced half-court oriented game?
-Deadweight contract like Mohammed needs to be included.
-Plays like Ray Lewis

Butler Pros:
-Good mid-ranger shooter
-Good slasher
-Good defender
-Plays well in the half-court oriented game

Butler Cons:
-Wizards are probably going to demand more in return than Charlotte
-Has had just as much trouble staying healthy as Wallace
-Deadweight contract like Etan Thomas likely added in to get a deal done

On balance I think I'd rather have Wallace, just because I think he has the ability to be effective getting points off of putbacks, turning steals into transition points and would help add an edge to this team that it sorely needs. Butler would be a fantastic get too, but I'd rather not have to empty the cupboard to get him -- especially when the difference in talent between he and Wallace is mostly negligible.
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

hasoos said:
Ok when looking at the number, I found one that jumps out on me. Butler averages about twice as many assists as Wallace.
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Yeah, but Butler gets those assists because he's probably got the offense directed through him much more than Wallace. We don't need a playmaker. We need to improve our team's defense, sustain our high rebounding rate, and have someone that can play off of Brandon.

I'll admit I don't watch Butler too much, but Wallace's game just screams perfect fit to me.
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

You know, someone needs to explain to me the difference between Etan Thomas and Ronny Turiaf. I'm not a huge follower of either team, but Etan seems like he has that same Junkyard Dog nastiness on the floor. I fail to see how Etan is "dead weight contract" while Turiaf would be a great fit?
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

hasoos said:
Ok when looking at the number, I found one that jumps out on me. Butler averages about twice as many assists as Wallace. I think that will be very important for getting our bigs involved.
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Butler gets 4.4 assists a game, Wallace gets 2.6.

Butler gets 3.3 turnovers a game, Wallace gets 2.1.

Butler takes 16.1 field goal attempts a game, Wallace takes 11.6.

I'm not sure that anything there indicates that Butler is more willing and able to get the bigs involved...

Ed O.
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cmoeme

It's bigger than it should be b/c of Agent Zero's BYC, but it's kind of a cake trade for me to make.

Including Bayless is difficult b/c of the size of the salaries coming back and the need for them to have roster space. They're at 15 right now, so it has to be an even number going back and forth,
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

Etan is like Brian Grant...

...The Laker version.
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

BrianFromWA said:
You know, someone needs to explain to me the difference between Etan Thomas and Ronny Turiaf. I'm not a huge follower of either team, but Etan seems like he has that same Junkyard Dog nastiness on the floor. I fail to see how Etan is "dead weight contract" while Turiaf would be a great fit?
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Deadweight because his contract doesn't really match his output ... and Turiaf is a much better player on a cheaper deal.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=851

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/players/hollinger?playerId=2789
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

Crimson the Cat said:
Yeah, but Butler gets those assists because he's probably got the offense directed through him much more than Wallace. We don't need a playmaker. We need to improve our team's defense, sustain our high rebounding rate, and have someone that can play off of Brandon.

I'll admit I don't watch Butler too much, but Wallace's game just screams perfect fit to me.
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I agree that he does get a lot more assist because he is directing the offense. But something has to be said for basketball IQ and the ability to see the open guy. The easy play is always the best option. It is not a direct comparison, but you can look to the days where he wasn't the main guy to see what his numbers are like for a 2nd option type player. Probably his 06-07 numbers where Arenas played the whole season would be representative, and his assists are more like 2. You could go back to his Miami days, but lets face it, he was a rookie that year.
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

Nikolokolus said:
Wallace Pros:
-doesn't need plays run for him to be effective
-The dude is NASSSSSTTTTY!
-incredible finisher in transition
-Going to be a lot cheaper in terms of trade assets to get than Butler
-Younger then Butler
-Plays like Ray Lewis

Wallace Cons:
-Not exactly a lights out perimeter shooter
-How effective would he be in a slow paced half-court oriented game?
-Deadweight contract like Mohammed needs to be included.
-Plays like Ray Lewis

Butler Pros:
-Good mid-ranger shooter
-Good slasher
-Good defender
-Plays well in the half-court oriented game

Butler Cons:
-Wizards are probably going to demand more in return than Charlotte
-Has had just as much trouble staying healthy as Wallace
-Deadweight contract like Etan Thomas likely added in to get a deal done

On balance I think I'd rather have Wallace, just because I think he has the ability to be effective getting points off of putbacks, turning steals into transition points and would help add an edge to this team that it sorely needs. Butler would be a fantastic get too, but I'd rather not have to empty the cupboard to get him -- especially when the difference in talent between he and Wallace is mostly negligible.
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Nice summary.

Frankly, I feel a little like I did when I realized we didn't get the #4 pick in the Oden/Durant draft lottery. All I wanted was for us to get a top 2 pick--I didn't care if it was 1 or 2.

Not getting either Butler or Wallace at this point will have the same bittersweet feel getting the #3 pick would've that year. Richard Jefferson? Ok. I guess that's better than what we've got. Potential deal over the summer? Yeah, I guess it's still possible. But neither option is going to be very satisfying.

There are two first prizes and one third place. I just don't want third place.
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

hasoos said:
Ok when looking at the number, I found one that jumps out on me. Butler averages about twice as many assists as Wallace. I think that will be very important for getting our bigs involved.
Click to expand...


butler plays "point-forward" some, so it's not surprising that he gets more assists than wallace. he also gets more turnovers.
 
Re: Wallace vs Butler, who should KP get?

hasoos said:
I agree that he does get a lot more assist because he is directing the offense. But something has to be said for basketball IQ and the ability to see the open guy. The easy play is always the best option. It is not a direct comparison, but you can look to the days where he wasn't the main guy to see what his numbers are like for a 2nd option type player. Probably his 06-07 numbers where Arenas played the whole season would be representative, and his assists are more like 2. You could go back to his Miami days, but lets face it, he was a rookie that year.
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You know what's awesome. We're DEBATING ABOUT WHETHER THIS TEAM SHOULD GET AN ALL-STAR IN HIS PRIME or ARGUABLY ONE OF THE BEST WING DEFENDERS IN THE LEAGUE.

Either way we win. I love it!

GO BLAZERS!

I'm gonna go shoot some hoops for lunch. I'm so amped!
 
I read that Wallace is playing tonight. I would think KP wouldn't make a trade for him until after tonights game and see how healthy he is. I know other people will say it doesn't matter but I think it does if we are going to make the playoffs.
 
Tortimer said:
I read that Wallace is playing tonight. I would think KP wouldn't make a trade for him until after tonights game and see how healthy he is. I know other people will say it doesn't matter but I think it does if we are going to make the playoffs.
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Sure. Health definitely needs to be part of the evaluation process, but as long as a doctor gives him a clean bill of health (which seems like they have if he's playing tonight) then I'm not too worried about his rib and lung
 
Re: Blazers have intensified their focus on Wallace

Nikolokolus said:
Wallace Cons:
-Not exactly a lights out perimeter shooter
-How effective would he be in a slow paced half-court oriented game?
-Deadweight contract like Mohammed needs to be included.
-Plays like Ray Lewis
Click to expand...

Charlotte under Brown is playing at a very slow pace (albeit faster than us), and Wallace fit fine before he went down.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Sure. Health definitely needs to be part of the evaluation process, but as long as a doctor gives him a clean bill of health (which seems like they have if he's playing tonight) then I'm not too worried about his rib and lung
Click to expand...

They said the same thing about Webster and Blake and you see what happen after one game back playing.
 
Latest from the Ford Chat:

Ralphie Bristol CT: Who do you expect Portland to end up with at SF? It seems like its gonna be Wallace, Butler, Jefferson or Carter going by what your article says.

SportsNation Chad Ford: (1:05 PM ET ) Sounds like their primary target is Gerald Wallace. The problem is that Charlotte wants them to take back Nazr Mohammed in any deal. Richard Jefferson is an easier get, but he's got a bigger salary, is older and isn't as good of a defender. I think Caron Butler is the best fit, but I'm not convinced Washington will let him go. Vince Carter is intriguing, but you have to worry about chemistry a bit with him. Bottom line, I think the Blazers will do a deal and I think it will be something that lands them Wallace or Jefferson.
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Take on Nazr. He's not great shakes, and he's overpaid, but is it REALLY the worst thing in the world to have a veteran 7 footer at the end of the bench?

If we need to give up almost nothing except RLEC and taking back Nazr, the Blazers would be silly not to acquire Wallace IMO.

Ed O.
 
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