Merged: Who would you give up for Paul George?

[Pinwheel1]

Woj recently said the right situation could get him to stay. I think Portland could have the best chance of anyone outside of Cleveland at keeping him. I think how hard Lillard and McCollum have been pushing for him and the great fans we have here in Rip City would make him think twice about leaving for LA.

I just listened to him on the Bomani Jones show and to me it sounded more like he was talking in a hypothetical scenario where the Lakers had to worry that PG might go to a Portland or a Cleveland and find out that he likes the city and the situation and re-signs......... but unless he changed his tune.........it was not too promising

 

[Natebishop3]

Chris Webber was furious when the Bullets traded him to Sac. It was a huge gamble by the Kings. And yet.... they were able to keep him. He loved playing there.

Sometimes it's worth the risk.

 

[B-Roy]

And I think that's essentially what most of us are saying at this point. George has drastically driven down his trade value. I think trading out Turner or Crabbe is worth the possibility of losing one of this year's picks and next year's pick. With PG our 2018 pick probably isn't going to be that great. So we given them:

Turner (salary dump)
#20 (potential loss)
2018 Pick (potential loss)

We potentially lose two picks in the tail end of the 1st round for nothing - that's the worst case scenario.

Best case scenario is that George discovers that he likes being on a winning team competing deep into the Playoffs.

Middle of the road, we trade-flip George to the Lakers at the deadline.

There is no chance Indiana accepts that deal. And if there was, I'm sure Cleveland would offer Love and a pick even knowing George is a rental.

 

[blue9]

There is no chance Indiana accepts that deal. And if there was, I'm sure Cleveland would offer Love and a pick even knowing George is a rental.

Except CLE doesn't have a pick (remember? WE have it!). And even if they DID have a pick, we have two picks that are better. And nobody wants Love - especially not IND. CLE has NOTHING that ANYBODY wants outside of LBJ and Kyrie.

 

[B-Roy]

Except CLE doesn't have a pick (remember? WE have it!). And even if they DID have a pick, we have two picks that are better. And nobody wants Love - especially not IND. CLE has NOTHING that ANYBODY wants outside of LBJ and Kyrie.

Yeah nobody wants Kevin Love the all-star. They would much rather have Evan Turner on a 70 million dollar contract!

 

[BonesJones]

I just listened to him on the Bomani Jones show and to me it sounded more like he was talking in a hypothetical scenario where the Lakers had to worry that PG might go to a Portland or a Cleveland and find out that he likes the city and the situation and re-signs......... but unless he changed his tune.........it was not too promising

Did he specifically list Portland though?

 

[BonesJones]

Yeah nobody wants Kevin Love the all-star. They would much rather have Evan Turner on a 70 million dollar contract!

Kevin Love or two draft picks in a loaded draft for a rebuilding team... Hmmm...

 

[B-Roy]

Kevin Love or two draft picks in a loaded draft for a rebuilding team... Hmmm...

Yeah two late firsts not to mention eating Turners shitty contract.

That sounds fun and super engaging.

And Cleveland can offer a future first.

 

[Natebishop3]

Kevin Love or two draft picks in a loaded draft for a rebuilding team... Hmmm...

Yup. Love was never able to get the Wolves out of the lottery, and he was younger and they had a better team than Indy. I think Love is fine as a second or third star, but not the primary star. He's simply not that good.

 

[Minstrel]

I think Love is being severely underrated because he's the one who sacrificed the most, offensively, in Cleveland. In Minnesota, he was a low post and rebounding monster who also developed a good three-point shot a few years into his career. He's still only 28, not exactly a declining vet. I said before that Love wouldn't be an ideal fit for a rebuilding team, but Indiana isn't going to get any ideal offers at this point. If Cleveland really puts Love on the table, it's going to blow away any other offers including Portland's. Mid-to-late first round picks have poor expected value, strong draft or not. The chances that they all, collectively, have anywhere near the value of Love for the rest of their careers is low.

I'm not a big fan of Love because of his defense, but he represents far more value than anyone else is likely to offer (unless the Lakers really offer the #2, which seems so fantastical that I probably won't believe it even if I see it).

 

[Eastoff]

Yeah two late firsts not to mention eating Turners shitty contract.

That sounds fun and super engaging.

And Cleveland can offer a future first.

Ah yes, the known commodity of Cleveland's future first round pick where you gamble that Lebron and your all Star leave.

 

[BonesJones]

Yeah two late firsts not to mention eating Turners shitty contract.

That sounds fun and super engaging.

And Cleveland can offer a future first.

They're already loaded with shit contracts and won't be looking to sign a big free agent for a couple years. Turner's contract doesn't hurt them.

Cleveland could offer a 2021 1st at the earliest.

Two late firsts in this draft is like two picks between 12 and 18 in a normal draft. Pretty valuable I'd say.

 

[blue9]

Yeah nobody wants Kevin Love the all-star. They would much rather have Evan Turner on a 70 million dollar contract!

The trade is about the draft picks, not the players. Also:

Love = $21M/year
Turner = $16M/year

Big difference when neither player is particularly wanted. But I'd be fine swapping in Crabbe, who ALSO makes several million less than Love.

 

[BonesJones]

I think Love is being severely underrated because he's the one who sacrificed the most, offensively, in Cleveland. In Minnesota, he was a low post and rebounding monster who also developed a good three-point shot a few years into his career. He's still only 28, not exactly a declining vet. I said before that Love wouldn't be an ideal fit for a rebuilding team, but Indiana isn't going to get any ideal offers at this point. If Cleveland really puts Love on the table, it's going to blow away any other offers including Portland's. Mid-to-late first round picks have poor expected value, strong draft or not. The chances that they all, collectively, have anywhere near the value of Love for the rest of their careers is low.

I'm not a big fan of Love because of his defense, but he represents far more value than anyone else is likely to offer (unless the Lakers really offer the #2, which seems so fantastical that I probably won't believe it even if I see it).

Bad defender, inefficient from 2pt, slightly above average 3pt shooter, good rebounder... He's not that great.

Why would Indiana want him though? And why would Chicago want him if they're trading Butler? Love doesn't make sense for a rebuilding team and no team is going to give up enough rebuilding assets to get Butler traded from CHI without just taking Butler for themselves. George is a definite possibility, with Love going to a 3rd team. But not Butler.

 

[B-Roy]

They're already loaded with shit contracts and won't be looking to sign a big free agent for a couple years. Turner's contract doesn't hurt them.

Cleveland could offer a 2021 1st at the earliest.

Two late firsts in this draft is like two picks between 12 and 18 in a normal draft. Pretty valuable I'd say.

I'll believe it when I see it.

With that said, I don't see the value unless Portland wants to pony up other assets. Cleveland is not the only team out there. I can see teams like Denver, Houston, Phoenix making similar or better offers, all under the impression that they can (and will probably fail) to convince George to stay. I would rather Portland stay out of the bidding war.

 

[Scalma]

Per Woj: “Teams are trying to decide what’s the appropriate cost for a player who they’re being told, pretty adamantly by Paul George’s camp, will be a rental. No matter who you are, no matter who has checked in or who potentially will check in, they’re gonna be told that Paul George is gonna play the season out and then he’s gonna go to the Lakers, that that’s his plan.”

Like COME ON now.....

What a loser.

 

[B-Roy]

The trade is about the draft picks, not the players. Also:

Love = $21M/year
Turner = $16M/year

Big difference when neither player is particularly wanted. But I'd be fine swapping in Crabbe, who ALSO makes several million less than Love.

I'd like some of what you're having if you think Turner and Love are similar value players, even at their respective contracts. Love still produces numbers at an all-star level, on a team that minimizes his contributions. Turner is not even a starter on a 41 win team.

I'm not going to debate this any further. The notion is just asinine to me.

 

[lawai'a]

The trade is about the draft picks, not the players. Also:

Love = $21M/year
Turner = $16M/year

Big difference when neither player is particularly wanted. But I'd be fine swapping in Crabbe, who ALSO makes several million less than Love.

how much less with trade kicker?

 

[blue9]

I'd like some of what you're having if you think Turner and Love are similar value players, even at their respective contracts. Love still produces numbers at an all-star level, on a team that minimizes his contributions. Turner is not even a starter on a 41 win team.

I'm not going to debate this any further. The notion is just asinine to me.

Not comparing the players at all - just pointing out that Turner is a $5M savings per year over Love. If you don't want either player, pay the lower of the two salaries rather than the higher.
I think Turner SUCKS for the Western Conference, but is an okay EC player. Love is like Lamarcus - once you get beyond the raw per game stats, he doesn't do anything to make his team better. They are stars in name only. I think the league has finally figured that out.

 

[Minstrel]

Bad defender, inefficient from 2pt, slightly above average 3pt shooter, good rebounder... He's not that great.

He doesn't have to be that great to trump mediocre draft picks. Just because it's a good draft doesn't make any first rounder gigantically valuable.

Why would Indiana want him though?

Because teams almost never engage in the fan mindset of "Either we're winning the title or we're trying to be the worst team possible for the #1 pick." Love gives them a player in his prime to retool around, along with Myles Turner. Indiana, under Bird, has never embraced burning the team down to the foundations and starting over. They've preferred to at least be respectable and build from there. More to the point, Indiana isn't going to have a lot of great options. When the other options are "terribly overpaid players plus one or two poor first rounders," Love makes plenty of sense.

 

[B-Roy]

He doesn't have to be that great to trump mediocre draft picks. Just because it's a good draft doesn't make any first rounder gigantically valuable.

Because teams almost never engage in the fan mindset of "Either we're winning the title or we're trying to be the worst team possible for the #1 pick." Love gives them a player in his prime to retool around, along with Myles Turner. Indiana, under Bird, has never embraced burning the team down to the foundations and starting over. They've preferred to at least be respectable and build from there. More to the point, Indiana isn't going to have a lot of great options. When the other options are "terribly overpaid players plus one or two poor first rounders," Love makes plenty of sense.

I think honestly what it comes down to is that a lot of Blazer fans have an elevated view of the perceived value of our picks and players. Not uncommon among fanbases obviously.

I just don't think our pieces are very valuable unless they're willing to pony up the kitchen sink.

 

[BBert]

Dame/PG/CJ/Nurk >>> (Younger) Dame/LaMarshmallow/Injured Wes/Rolo

 

[Scalma]

This has probably been posted already but Lowe said on his podcast he thinks Portland will try for George. Arnowitz said Portland could put together the best package. Called Harkless and Aminu "good ass contracts" and proposed those two and a first. Lowe said maybe two firsts. Then Lowe mentioned Crabbe. Both agreed the holdup is skepticism whether they could hold on to him, but they said it might be worth the risk.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Did he specifically list Portland though?

yes

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Personally i would love to see a Lillard/CJ/PG/Aminu/Nurkic lineup.

 

[BonesJones]

yes

That's intriguing that he brought up Portland and Cleveland as the two places that could sway PG to stay.

 

[BonesJones]

Our picks are not being overvalued by us.

Robert Williams and Miles Bridges were predicted to go between 11 and 14 this year. Next year they'll go top 7.

Subtract the pick by 6 and that's how good our draft picks are in a normal draft. We essentially have #9, #14, and #20.

 

[BonesJones]

Personally i would love to see a Lillard/CJ/PG/Aminu/Nurkic lineup.

Put anyone other than Aminu in there and I agree.

 

[BonesJones]

If we got PG for #20, #26, and Crabbe, what do we do after that?

Do we trade #15, a 2019, and Harkless for a good PF? Who would we target?

Maybe a sign and trade with Harkless, Leonard, Aminu, and a 2018 1st for Millsap?

 

[Pinwheel1]

Not comparing the players at all - just pointing out that Turner is a $5M savings per year over Love. If you don't want either player, pay the lower of the two salaries rather than the higher.
I think Turner SUCKS for the Western Conference, but is an okay EC player. Love is like Lamarcus - once you get beyond the raw per game stats, he doesn't do anything to make his team better. They are stars in name only. I think the league has finally figured that out.

And by 2019-20 it is a 7 million savings between Love and either Crabbe or ET