With what he has accomplished as a Blazer, I think that it is time for Meyers fans to get onboard with viewing him as a key component of a WCF Champion team. It is time to move past the counterproductive negative thoughts of the past and to bring optimism that can move the team forward to winning in the playoffs. Positive comments on this forum can help. Let's build on achievements and aim for success!
Meyers mandate to shoot swish3s
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riverman
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He's taken over Collins spot recently as first big off the bench..and he's been an impact player. No complaints from me there...his rebounding is what's impressed me last couple games
Boob-No-More
Why you no hire big man coach?
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Remember just 15 months ago when the Melo to HOU three-way trade was supposedly shot down because the Knicks wouldn't take on would take on Meyers' contract? My how times have changed. Melo has gone from a highly desired "superstar" making $27 million a year to making the vet min to basically being unemployed. Meanwhile, Meyers has gone from untradeable to a solid NBA back up center who may actually be underpaid based on his age and current production. My how the tables have turned...
BNM
Boob-No-More
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Sorry to (attempt to) inject a little bit of reality into your Meyers-friendly algorithm, but no one in the entire history of the NBA has ever averaged 12 3FGA/G. Steph Curry averaged 11.2 in 2015-16, his second MVP season. James Harden is currently averaging 11.1 3FGA/G in Mike D'Antoni's 3-point happy 7 second or less offense. In fact, no one other than Curry and Harden have ever even averaged 10 3FGA/G.
So, any plan that depends on Meyers Leonard averaging 12 3FGA/G is pure fantasy. Any plan that has him shooting that many 3-pointers AND maintaining his league leading 3FG% of .529 is delusional.
Not trying to be negative. Trying to be real.
I'm trying @swish3.
BNM
OK. I agree with your point that this is a lot of swish3 attempts. But I did not have the aim that this should be a season average. If we got Meyers in the game plan mindset that he should score 9 swish3 points per half, and analyze the result of that experiment for a series of 6 games, I predict that we would see better success than in the last 3 games.
Perhaps we should aim for a long term goal of Meyers averaging 10 swish3 attempts per game, with the goal of seeing him score 15 swish3 PPG and continue to add dunk2s and free1s to realize the 18+ PPG average that he might then be in position to contribute over the long run. And if he can again excel in the playoffs, we can get ready to celebrate!
Thanks for the thoughtful reply!
Boob-No-More
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So, basically you want Meyers Leonard, our back up center, to average as many 3FGA/G as Seth Curry and James Harden - and make them at a higher percentage.
Good plan! I'll start planning the parade route now!
BNM
Reep
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It is hard to take this thread seriously, but I agree Meyers should take about two more attempts per game. Most games I have seen him in he passes up at least two open threes--where closers are coming, but wouldn't get there in time if he was more decisive one his shot. Creates a nice mismatch and also clears out space for others.
There is great value in paying attention to the swish3 scoring game, as is evident in wins by the Blazers and other teams as scoring averages have increased this season and are headed up. Based on a mandate of scoring 15 swish3s for the game, I imagine the following choice of Blazers to make the swish3 attempts to optimize scoring and the probability for wins in the upcoming games. The Blazers are selected based on statistics for this year, and current swish3 %, shots to score, and number of attempts likely are included in that order.
Meyers at 52.9% should score 5 of 10. If he is having a hot hand night, less shots to score 5, or even making more than 5, is quite possible.
Dame at 33.5% and CJ at 38.5% combined should score 5 of 14.
Seth at 45.9%, Jake at 38.5%, Nik at 38.1%, Zach at 36.5%, and Chief at 32.5% combined should score 5 of 14. Choice of who shoots should be based on who has the hot hand determined by swish3 shots made during the game and by ranking made consecutive swish3s during warmups, to guide optimization of this group of 5 scoring.
Nurk, Evan, and other Blazers who have not made at least 5 of their first 15 swish3 attempts in games should not be shooting swish3s. No Blazer should continue attempting swish3 shots after missing 3 consecutive misses.
This plan asks for discipline to optimize powerful swish3 scoring potential, and does ask a lot of Meyers. But he is leading the NBA in swish3 scoring percentage and is capable of contributing at least 4 swish3s per game. What is new in this mandate is declaring the plan from before the game, ideally in practices going on today, rather than leaving the choices and number of shots to being determined by the flow of the game. Let's try this mandate and designated swish3 shooting and look for getting back to 70% wins.
Meyers at 52.9% should score 5 of 10. If he is having a hot hand night, less shots to score 5, or even making more than 5, is quite possible.
Dame at 33.5% and CJ at 38.5% combined should score 5 of 14.
Seth at 45.9%, Jake at 38.5%, Nik at 38.1%, Zach at 36.5%, and Chief at 32.5% combined should score 5 of 14. Choice of who shoots should be based on who has the hot hand determined by swish3 shots made during the game and by ranking made consecutive swish3s during warmups, to guide optimization of this group of 5 scoring.
Nurk, Evan, and other Blazers who have not made at least 5 of their first 15 swish3 attempts in games should not be shooting swish3s. No Blazer should continue attempting swish3 shots after missing 3 consecutive misses.
This plan asks for discipline to optimize powerful swish3 scoring potential, and does ask a lot of Meyers. But he is leading the NBA in swish3 scoring percentage and is capable of contributing at least 4 swish3s per game. What is new in this mandate is declaring the plan from before the game, ideally in practices going on today, rather than leaving the choices and number of shots to being determined by the flow of the game. Let's try this mandate and designated swish3 shooting and look for getting back to 70% wins.
Strenuus
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Strenuus
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You never asked a question. You made a statement.
blue9
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Similar to how people should be treated when they use All-Star appearances or +/- to make their argument.
As I see it, you refusing to acknowledge Meyers swish3 playoffs percentage record is the reason to discount or laugh off this record. Since starting to shoot swish3s in his 3rd season, Meyers has been the leader or among the leaders in Blazer swish3 % and is leading the NBA at present. He also scored 75% of his swish3s in the Oct 12 and Nov 20 games. Since Meyers achieved the record and has continued to show a high swish3 percentage in following years, I see strong reasons to say that he is consistently a leading swish3 shooter.
You can call that inconsistent and write about all the laughing that you want, but I stand by my conviction that Meyers deserves recognition for his excellent swish3 scoring.
Boob-No-More
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Yes. I saw that too, but Meyers and Bojan are neck and neck at the top of the NBA. This is still outstanding shooting by Meyers and the reason for me to advocate that he needs to be more prominently featured. I notice that Meyers has a better PER, which is reassuring.
I just watched the Clipper game again to see how the Blazers lost it after winning the first half. It is clear to me that a major factor was badly done refs who repeatedly failed to call obvious fouls that Bradley and Galinari made on Dame, CJ, Evan, Meyers, and Zach. Instead of calling those fouls, and not observing the revised guidelines that are supposed to keep the hand-checking and grabbing reduced to allow more free flowing basketball, the zebras changed the 2nd half by allowing the Blazers to be battered. Some of the fouls sending Dame and CJ to the floor were terrible no calls, and then the refs called minor contact fouls at the other end. Galinari, Harrell, and Beverly flopping and getting calls were gross ref errors. That push of Dame to the floor and into Meyers at the end of the game by Bradley alone would have been enough to change the outcome of the game. I counted at least 6 failures to call fouls and that would have brought the ratio of fouls called on the Blazers and the Clippers to more nearly even, as watching the game shows it should have been.
So again on our home court these unacceptably biased zebras allowed the constantly bellowing and whining Doc Rivers to steal the game. This is really frustrating. Let's hope that the Blazer coaches can find a way to get a balanced ref performance to counter Rivers and for all future games.
But back to my main theme, the Magic and Nuggets games can be opportunities for Meyers to continue to play an increasing role. Let's see what happens when he shoots more.
I just watched the Clipper game again to see how the Blazers lost it after winning the first half. It is clear to me that a major factor was badly done refs who repeatedly failed to call obvious fouls that Bradley and Galinari made on Dame, CJ, Evan, Meyers, and Zach. Instead of calling those fouls, and not observing the revised guidelines that are supposed to keep the hand-checking and grabbing reduced to allow more free flowing basketball, the zebras changed the 2nd half by allowing the Blazers to be battered. Some of the fouls sending Dame and CJ to the floor were terrible no calls, and then the refs called minor contact fouls at the other end. Galinari, Harrell, and Beverly flopping and getting calls were gross ref errors. That push of Dame to the floor and into Meyers at the end of the game by Bradley alone would have been enough to change the outcome of the game. I counted at least 6 failures to call fouls and that would have brought the ratio of fouls called on the Blazers and the Clippers to more nearly even, as watching the game shows it should have been.
So again on our home court these unacceptably biased zebras allowed the constantly bellowing and whining Doc Rivers to steal the game. This is really frustrating. Let's hope that the Blazer coaches can find a way to get a balanced ref performance to counter Rivers and for all future games.
But back to my main theme, the Magic and Nuggets games can be opportunities for Meyers to continue to play an increasing role. Let's see what happens when he shoots more.
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Also, studying the pass from Meyers to Chief to give him the swish3 attempt at the end of the Clippers game, I think that if Blazer coaches have given Meyers the mandate so that he goes into future games knowing and planning on the expectation that he should be scoring at least 9 and ideally 15 points by swish3s, he will and the Blazers will win.
That swish3 and some justice from the refs would very probably have meant the Clippers game was a win for the Blazers, as it should have been.
That swish3 and some justice from the refs would very probably have meant the Clippers game was a win for the Blazers, as it should have been.
BlayZa
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meyers can and is allowed to shoot.
that just should never ever be option 1 for a guy built like he is.
its literally just pissing in genetics face having that type of build and playing like an avg 7-1 SG
we dont need him to be that. ever.
he needs to be in the middle, screens, rotating, rebounding, chasing, running the floor fast, rebounding, and maybe even avging a block per game.
he's progressing, but the last piece of advice he needs is to abandon this form n go back to shooting poorly and enjoying the bench. and ive shat on him more than just about anyone and i want him to keep this new meyers going.
that just should never ever be option 1 for a guy built like he is.
its literally just pissing in genetics face having that type of build and playing like an avg 7-1 SG
we dont need him to be that. ever.
he needs to be in the middle, screens, rotating, rebounding, chasing, running the floor fast, rebounding, and maybe even avging a block per game.
he's progressing, but the last piece of advice he needs is to abandon this form n go back to shooting poorly and enjoying the bench. and ive shat on him more than just about anyone and i want him to keep this new meyers going.
One statistic that I noticed that may not have been recognized is the scoring advantage shown in the lineup 3 man combinations when Meyers, Seth, and Zach are in, which is +35.2 points, +15.3 TRB%, and +7.5 AST. FG%, 3P%, and FT% are all positive with these 3 Blazers in the game. The eFG% is among the highest values as well. It would make sense to use this combination to realize the advantage when it is bench time.
If Meyers actually understood that he had a mandate to carry a Blazer swish3 scoring load of 9-15 points, would it be true (it is) that the most swish3 attempts that he has taken in a game this season is only 4?
For comparison, Steph Curry is averaging over 10 swish3 attempts per game, and Klay is averaging over 8. The prospect of seeing Meyers score 15 points with only 10 shots is strong motivation to mandate in the game plan that he should be looking to shoot at least 6 swish3 attempts per game (and continue shooting if he is at least 50%)!
For comparison, Steph Curry is averaging over 10 swish3 attempts per game, and Klay is averaging over 8. The prospect of seeing Meyers score 15 points with only 10 shots is strong motivation to mandate in the game plan that he should be looking to shoot at least 6 swish3 attempts per game (and continue shooting if he is at least 50%)!
hoopsjock
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C'mon Swish3, time and time again you compare someone who can get his 3 point shot off under any circumstance with his ball handling to someone who has to be wide open and receive a perfect pass to shoot a 3 pointer. Why is this such a hard concept for you?
HJ, you have hung on to a view from the past that is disproved by the statistics. Meyers has a deliberate swish3 shot that at 52.9% merits being used as a major Blazer offensive weapon. If you watch the games in which Meyers is 75%+ for swish3 shooting, you see him making them as long as he gets a pass at the arc and ends up with 3 feet of space to shoot and score with elite accuracy. If there were other NBA players who could achieve this high swish3 shooting percentage, they would have done it. It is time to recognize the progress of this season and to maximize the swish3 scoring potential. Let's not see a repeat of a quarter in which the Blazers shoot only 10% of swish3 attempts and fail to feed Meyers for swish3 scoring that will mean that games like the Clippers are a win, not a loss!
hoopsjock
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I am acknowledging that Meyers is a GREAT 3 point shooter! However, I don't understand how you can't tell the difference between someone who can create his own shot and one that has to have a shot created for him. Until you can grasp that basic concept every one of your posts is completely ignorant.
I do not concede your point that swish3 shooters must create their own shot, and in fact most of them do not as the statistics show. Meyers is just fine shooting all of his swish3 attempts from assist passes to him in at sweet spots around the arc. It is great to have players like Dame and CJ who can and do create their own swish3 shot opportunities, but for Meyers, Zach, Seth, Nik, and other teammates, the well timed zip pass to the open man on the arc is effective strong scoring offense. Perhaps you might provide some statistical arguments instead of making such strong criticism. Let's look for improvements that will optimize Blazer scoring and return to winning.
hoopsjock
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I never said that swish3 shooters MUST create their own shot, they don't. I'm talking about the ridiculousness of saying that someone who can't create his own swish3 opportunity can somehow get 10+ attempts per game. If the Blazers tried to run plays to get Meyers 10+ swish3's per game then opposing defenses could easily adjust to take the swish3 away from Meyers. Whereas with Steph Curry he can still get his shots off even with defenses designed to stop him. You even admitted that Meyers does need space to get his deliberate shot off so what would happen if his defender just stopped giving him any space? I don't get why you can't recognize this?
Yes, more shots result from guards like Dame or Steph, but I am just saying that you can feed high percentage shooters on the arc. For example, Kyle Korver has shot 10+ from the arc on many occasions based on assist passes. That is all that he needs.
What allows for these shots of off ball movement that includes high energy activity and continuing rotation with pops to different sweet spots by Meyers. For example, the spots in the corners have been good. Meyers will sometimes draw opponents out of the paint to allow teammates to drive the paint, and other times will be free when they sag back into the paint. Plays can be run to get Meyers open at the arc 4+ times per half. His screening, moving around, rebounding, assists, and blocking out have been effective.
hoopsjock
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But Korver has a super quick release, Meyers doesn't.
Yes. Kyle is quicker, but Meyers is accurate and does get the shots off, as the record indicates. Let's feed him assist passes timed to him rotating to the sweet spots and observe how many he will score. There is underused scoring power there.
Swish3 shooting was a major scoring strength in the 115 to 112 win over the Magic on Nov 28. It is reassuring to know that realization of the power of 3 point scoring that led to 30 points by Dame and 15 points by Nik (comprising most of the 57 swish3 points scored) allowed this win. The Blazers needed this win, and faced 46.7% swish3 and 51.9% FG shooting by the Magic. The Blazers identified and fed the hot hands, which is the core strategy that generated this thread. Let's keep it up and aim for >70% wins. (That is 58+).
