Politics Microchip anyone????

[BlazerCaravan]

Yep, many have speculated that this is the form that Revelation's "mark of the beast" will take. Get ready for religious protests.

Good; maybe those idiots will finally be good for something useful.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Pitchforks and torches are the only solution.

These are much more efficient

 

[barfo]

I have no problem with corporations putting up cameras. You have no expectation of privacy when in public. What I do have a problem with is the government lining up all the camera systems from all the corporations and using them to spy on citizens.

Barfo would be proud, though.

Hmm. Do you have a problem with corporations lining up all the camera systems from all the corporations and using them to spy on citizens? I'm guessing not.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Hmm. Do you have a problem with corporations lining up all the camera systems from all the corporations and using them to spy on citizens? I'm guessing not.

barfo

The grocery store puts up a camera to watch the parking lot. The pawn shop puts up a camera for security.

The two cameras aren't linked. The pawn shop guy doesn't watch you in the grocery store parking lot.

So no, I have no issue with corporations putting up cameras.

I know the government wants to (and does) listen to everyone via the microphones on their computers and watch them via the cameras in their phones. And you seem to not care because the constitution can be ignored.

 

[kjironman1]

Postal workers and public school teachers and firemen and cops and armed forces.

Yeah Damn those school teachers Firemen and COPS! Hell the cops even got their own TV show....Obama lovers every one of em! We all Know the Armed Forces are all Obama lovers! It's all government and it's ALL BAD! Do i need to impose the sarcasm font or is it quite clear enough?

 

[kjironman1]

"recently predicted", is 2007 still considered recent?

2007? How can it be? We all know this is an Obama takeover plan!

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah Damn those school teachers Firemen and COPS! Hell the cops even got their own TV show....Obama lovers every one of em! We all Know the Armed Forces are all Obama lovers! It's all government and it's ALL BAD! Do i need to impose the sarcasm font or is it quite clear enough?

They are the government, no?

It's only bad when they influence the elected officials to overpay them, or provide other political favors.

 

[kjironman1]

They are the government, no?

It's only bad when they influence the elected officials to overpay them, or provide other political favors.

Sure they are. Need to cut back on those Teachers, Cops and Firemen. We have way too many people in the military. They do vote so influencing elected officials is kind of mandatory. Heck if you have every Teacher-cop-fireman-soldier in your pocket you might even become president.
Denny i know you are smarter than this.

 

[Denny Crane]

Sure they are. Need to cut back on those Teachers, Cops and Firemen. We have way too many people in the military. They do vote so influencing elected officials is kind of mandatory. Heck if you have every Teacher-cop-fireman-soldier in your pocket you might even become president.
Denny i know you are smarter than this.

I know it's not right for a teacher's union to take money from the teachers to pay for support of a democratic party candidate, then collectively bargain with that candidate if/when he wins.

You may be "smarter than this" but I suspect you will defend that practice no matter how egregious it is.

 

[kjironman1]

I know it's not right for a teacher's union to take money from the teachers to pay for support of a democratic party candidate, then collectively bargain with that candidate if/when he wins.

You may be "smarter than this" but I suspect you will defend that practice no matter how egregious it is.

So now you are going to quantify it as "Teachers Unions". This is why this is complete rubbish. The Teachers Unions are the only thing keeping class sizes and wages even the least bit reasonable in this country. Of course this does not fly well with the rich. It makes getting an education for the poor a possibility. The rich don't have to worry about class sizes or the quality of teachers because they can put their kids in private school. It seems your problem is not so much with Government as it is with what the Government does. Elected officials are supposed to do what the people who elect them want them to do. That is called Democracy. Again Denny you are smarter than this. I suspect you would defend the practice that every Corporate CEO has also influencing their choice for any Government position. Just go on down to Texas and look around.

 

[Denny Crane]

I say put the microchips in the teachers and see how they like it.

The math flies in the face of the unions' claims.

There's over $10,000 per student spent on public education.

An overcrowded homeroom of 40 would mean $400,000 to be spent between teacher and books and building and administration. Plenty of money to pay the teacher $100,000 at least. Even a homeroom of size 30 would have plenty of money to pay the teacher, buy every kid a state of the art MacBook Pro (every year), pay for books, and pay the janitors plus a share of the administrators' salaries and to patch the roof so it doesn't leak.

But no. The system is so fucked up we have to pour more money into it for no good reason, except you say so.

LOL

To make things worse, when real solutions are offered, the fight against those solutions is tooth and nail and in the political arena. Unions taking from the teachers to fund democrats who oppose real solutions.

The rallying cry is "it would hurt the system!"

The system isn't more important to me than the results for the kids. Kids come first to some of us. Teachers, unions, pay, tenure, etc., come first to those who are fucking things up.

 

[magnifier661]

So now you are going to quantify it as "Teachers Unions". This is why this is complete rubbish. The Teachers Unions are the only thing keeping class sizes and wages even the least bit reasonable in this country. Of course this does not fly well with the rich. It makes getting an education for the poor a possibility. The rich don't have to worry about class sizes or the quality of teachers because they can put their kids in private school. It seems your problem is not so much with Government as it is with what the Government does. Elected officials are supposed to do what the people who elect them want them to do. That is called Democracy. Again Denny you are smarter than this. I suspect you would defend the practice that every Corporate CEO has also influencing their choice for any Government position. Just go on down to Texas and look around.

Not sure if I agree with this statement. The education system in the US is so corrupt. I am definitely "pro eduction", but the union has really fucked things up.

 

[kjironman1]

An overcrowded homeroom of 40 would mean $400,000 to be spent between teacher and books and building and administration. Plenty of money to pay the teacher $100,000 at least. Even a homeroom of size 30 would have plenty of money to pay the teacher, buy every kid a state of the art MacBook Pro (every year), pay for books, and pay the janitors plus a share of the administrators' salaries and to patch the roof so it doesn't leak.

This is exactly the kind of backwards MATH that get every republican in trouble. You think you can pull a "$10,000" number out of the air and apply it to every kid in every situation and say it "Flies in the face" of the people looking out for those teaching our children. Even putting it to an example of the same money divided between 30 students and then 40 students. Give me a break.
Sorry. It doesn't work that way and not only do i know it but i suspect you do also....I'm out!

 

[magnifier661]

This is exactly the kind of backwards MATH that get every republican in trouble. You think you can pull a "$10,000" number out of the air and apply it to every kid in every situation and say it "Flies in the face" of the people looking out for those teaching our children. Even putting it to an example of the same money divided between 30 students and then 40 students. Give me a break.
Sorry. It doesn't work that way and not only do i know it but i suspect you do also....I'm out!

You think this is truly propaganda?

http://ed100.org/support/californiaskimps/

California consistently skimps on education. The California Budget Project reports that in 2012-13, public K-12 education spending in the rest of America (exclusive of California) averaged close to $11,755 per student. In California, the average was just $9,280, 21% below the national average and 44th among all states. This is not a recent change. California was once a top funder of public education, but that was long ago. In a long, slow slide, California has joined Florida and Texas toward the bottom of the national stack. Funding per student in California, adjusted for inflation, is only slightly above where it stood forty years ago.


Education expenditures per student by state, 1970 – 2012(est), adapted from EdSource “States in Motion” interactive graphs http://edsource.org/states-in-motion view #7

If California’s low funding per student is news to you, you are in good company. Most Californians have no idea that funding for their schools is so meager. According to a 2012 survey by the Public Policy Institute of California “Fewer than four in 10 Californians (36%) think that the state’s per pupil spending for K–12 public education is below average compared to other states.” Over half of Californians believe that per-pupil spending in this state is near the top, or at least average. They are mistaken. Education spending per student in California is low relative to other states, and has been since the 1970’s.

 

[Denny Crane]

This is exactly the kind of backwards MATH that get every republican in trouble. You think you can pull a "$10,000" number out of the air and apply it to every kid in every situation and say it "Flies in the face" of the people looking out for those teaching our children. Even putting it to an example of the same money divided between 30 students and then 40 students. Give me a break.
Sorry. It doesn't work that way and not only do i know it but i suspect you do also....I'm out!

I call bullshit.

I've actually reviewed the books of a California school district, so I know where the money goes.

I'm not pulling the $10,000 out of thin air.



Although I'm aware that it varies from state to state and that where the spending is the most, the results aren't so hot.

 

[Denny Crane]

Ho ho.

$10,559.70 in spending per child, only $6,424.90 spent on instruction.

THE SYSTEM is so awesome.

 

[magnifier661]

Ho ho.

$10,559.70 in spending per child, only $6,424.90 spent on instruction.

THE SYSTEM is so awesome.

It is actually some serious bullshit! The fact that they pile 40 students to one teacher is an absolute joke. The majority of the funding is on union voted bullshit. The fact that a teacher makes chump change, but is responsible for 40 students is an absolute travesty

 

[Denny Crane]

It is actually some serious bullshit! The fact that they pile 40 students to one teacher is an absolute joke. The majority of the funding is on union voted bullshit. The fact that a teacher makes chump change, but is responsible for 40 students is an absolute travesty

I'm actually fine with paying for education if that's what we are compelled to do.

Unfortunately, we are paying $12,410.85 for $6424.90 in services. And the answer is to spend more?

I'm fine with spending more, but first let's get $12,410.85 worth of services for our $12,410.85 in taxpayer money. Then a reasonable case might be made for increasing spending (more libraries, more computer labs, more science labs, more arts programs, whatever).

The student/teacher ratio only makes the teachers' argument worse. There's $12,410.85 per student to be distributed, and 40x that vs. 30x that means more available to pay the teacher.

 

[Denny Crane]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows

WASHINGTON The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year, with parents and private foundations picking up more of the costs, an international survey released Tuesday found.

Despite the spending, U.S. students still trail their rivals on international tests.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development — which groups the world's most developed countries — writes in its annual report that brand-new and experienced teachers alike in the United States out-earn most of their counterparts around the globe. But U.S. salaries have not risen at the same pace as other nations.

The findings, part of a 440-page tome of statistics, put the United States' spending on its young people in context.

The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student. When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report.

That sum inched past some developed countries and far surpassed others. Switzerland's total spending per student was $14,922 while Mexico averaged $2,993 in 2010. The average OECD nation spent $9,313 per young person.

As a share of its economy, the United States spent more than the average country in the survey. In 2010, the United States spent 7.3 percent of its gross domestic product on education, compared with the 6.3 percent average of other OECD countries. Denmark topped the list on that measure with 8 percent of its gross domestic product going toward education.

Spending, of course, only tells part of the story and does not guarantee students' success. The United States routinely trails its rival countries in performances on international exams despite being among the heaviest spenders on education.

 

[magnifier661]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-education-spending-tops-global-list-study-shows/

U.S. education spending tops global list, study shows

WASHINGTON The United States spends more than other developed nations on its students' education each year, with parents and private foundations picking up more of the costs, an international survey released Tuesday found.

Despite the spending, U.S. students still trail their rivals on international tests.

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development — which groups the world's most developed countries — writes in its annual report that brand-new and experienced teachers alike in the United States out-earn most of their counterparts around the globe. But U.S. salaries have not risen at the same pace as other nations.

The findings, part of a 440-page tome of statistics, put the United States' spending on its young people in context.

The United States spent more than $11,000 per elementary student in 2010 and more than $12,000 per high school student. When researchers factored in the cost for programs after high school education such as college or vocational training, the United States spent $15,171 on each young person in the system — more than any other nation covered in the report.

That sum inched past some developed countries and far surpassed others. Switzerland's total spending per student was $14,922 while Mexico averaged $2,993 in 2010. The average OECD nation spent $9,313 per young person.

As a share of its economy, the United States spent more than the average country in the survey. In 2010, the United States spent 7.3 percent of its gross domestic product on education, compared with the 6.3 percent average of other OECD countries. Denmark topped the list on that measure with 8 percent of its gross domestic product going toward education.

Spending, of course, only tells part of the story and does not guarantee students' success. The United States routinely trails its rival countries in performances on international exams despite being among the heaviest spenders on education.

I think this has a lot to do with how they spend their money.

 

[barfo]

The grocery store puts up a camera to watch the parking lot. The pawn shop puts up a camera for security.

The two cameras aren't linked. The pawn shop guy doesn't watch you in the grocery store parking lot.

So no, I have no issue with corporations putting up cameras.

I know the government wants to (and does) listen to everyone via the microphones on their computers and watch them via the cameras in their phones. And you seem to not care because the constitution can be ignored.

Yes, the two cameras aren't linked. Now.

But let's say Barfo, Inc. decides they want to go into the business of linking up all the security cameras in the country and making use of the data. Barfo, Inc. pays the various corporations with cameras for their security feeds. Barfo, Inc. uses the data in whatever way they deem profitable, which very likely involves tracking your every movement. Barfo, Inc. also installs microphones everywhere so they can listen as well as see.

But, it's free enterprise. So you wouldn't have a problem with that, right?

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

Yes, the two cameras aren't linked. Now.

But let's say Barfo, Inc. decides they want to go into the business of linking up all the security cameras in the country and making use of the data. Barfo, Inc. pays the various corporations with cameras for their security feeds. Barfo, Inc. uses the data in whatever way they deem profitable, which very likely involves tracking your every movement. Barfo, Inc. also installs microphones everywhere so they can listen as well as see.

But, it's free enterprise. So you wouldn't have a problem with that, right?

barfo

Nope. I have no problem with that. You have no expectation of privacy when you are in public places.

It's where you have expectation of privacy where it matters. The government is bound by what you treat as used toilet paper (constitution) to honor individuals' privacy.

I'm quite sure that the supreme court has serious issues with the government abusing the expectation of privacy in public places when it comes to government spying on people.

For example:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=93127

Without that bit of soiled toilet paper, even that would be moot. Government can do whatever the hell it wants, regardless of our so-called rights according to you.

 

[kjironman1]

I call bullshit.

I've actually reviewed the books of a California school district, so I know where the money goes.

I'm not pulling the $10,000 out of thin air.

View attachment 4967

Although I'm aware that it varies from state to state and that where the spending is the most, the results aren't so hot.

I'm not sure why I came back and checked this thread again other than i figured i would get a big laugh out of it and sure enough i did. Your "Graphs" are so completely inept they are just that. Laughable! They leave out so many aspects that again i know you are just not that stupid. Whats more, i take offense that you would insult my intelligence with them.
They leave out just about every basic need that the schools have in today's society. How about Heat and electrical bills for lighting? Maybe a book would be nice? Would you consider allowing students to participate in sports. This particular site might have a few people that like sports afterall. How about a computer or even internet access? Again i would think someone such as yourself might think that to be important with the awesome work you do here on S-2. Grounds keeping and building maintenance might come into play. Buses and now safety of students due to the stupidity of a few idiots that like to shoot kids might have some impact.
What you have there is so simplistic and biased it again defies logic that you would try to present this for a discussion such as this. What is even funnier is that the "Math" that "Flies in the face" also does not even add up correctly? I can pull up a hundred more biased graphs to support my argument here but what would be the use of that? Your original statement "Postal workers and public school teachers and firemen and cops and armed forces." You were trying to make a point that it was not capitalism at it's best. You included Teachers Cops and Firemen with the Military and for that alone you simply don't get it.
I don't like all that this country has become but it is by far the best place in the world to live and raise your family. Teachers, the Police and Firemen are all protected by our Armed forces which i proudly served. I will not stand by and allow someone such as yourself even with the notoriety you have on this board to trash all that i and my fellow veterans have done for this country. Many in my family serve as Teachers and Firemen. It is just not right to belittle their very contributions to this society. Sorry Denny but it just is not right. Peace my friend.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm not sure why I came back and checked this thread again other than i figured i would get a big laugh out of it and sure enough i did. Your "Graphs" are so completely inept they are just that. Laughable! They leave out so many aspects that again i know you are just not that stupid. Whats more, i take offense that you would insult my intelligence with them.
They leave out just about every basic need that the schools have in today's society. How about Heat and electrical bills for lighting? Maybe a book would be nice? Would you consider allowing students to participate in sports. This particular site might have a few people that like sports afterall. How about a computer or even internet access? Again i would think someone such as yourself might think that to be important with the awesome work you do here on S-2. Grounds keeping and building maintenance might come into play. Buses and now safety of students due to the stupidity of a few idiots that like to shoot kids might have some impact.
What you have there is so simplistic and biased it again defies logic that you would try to present this for a discussion such as this. What is even funnier is that the "Math" that "Flies in the face" also does not even add up correctly? I can pull up a hundred more biased graphs to support my argument here but what would be the use of that? Your original statement "Postal workers and public school teachers and firemen and cops and armed forces." You were trying to make a point that it was not capitalism at it's best. You included Teachers Cops and Firemen with the Military and for that alone you simply don't get it.
I don't like all that this country has become but it is by far the best place in the world to live and raise your family. Teachers, the Police and Firemen are all protected by our Armed forces which i proudly served. I will not stand by and allow someone such as yourself even with the notoriety you have on this board to trash all that i and my fellow veterans have done for this country. Many in my family serve as Teachers and Firemen. It is just not right to belittle their very contributions to this society. Sorry Denny but it just is not right. Peace my friend.

Bro, the graphs you say are manipulated are backed by the actual budgets. So you don't need to read just the graphs. Dig deeper and see where all the money is going. They can't hide it, so you can break it down.

 

[kjironman1]

I'm actually fine with paying for education if that's what we are compelled to do.

Unfortunately, we are paying $12,410.85 for $6424.90 in services. And the answer is to spend more?

I'm fine with spending more, but first let's get $12,410.85 worth of services for our $12,410.85 in taxpayer money. Then a reasonable case might be made for increasing spending (more libraries, more computer labs, more science labs, more arts programs, whatever).

The student/teacher ratio only makes the teachers' argument worse. There's $12,410.85 per student to be distributed, and 40x that vs. 30x that means more available to pay the teacher.

Do you see the manipulation in this graph? I do. Please tell me you got better than this?

 

[magnifier661]

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/2014-15/pdf/BudgetSummary/Kthru12Education.pdf

This is the actual budget for California.

http://ballotpedia.org/Oregon_state_budget_and_finances

This is for Oregon

 

[Denny Crane]

My graphics are from the UN and government sites.

I guess you can't trust those sources.

LOL

If we spent the $12,000 on education instead of spending only $6000 of it on education, we could afford sports and books and the like.

"Education" includes electric bills and paying the rent. I'm sure you know that by far the biggest expense in education is paying the teachers.

The only way to justify the massive spending and poor results is to make some "too simplistic" and "biased" argument? That's a laugher, too.

The problem with education is teachers are in the way of progress. The unions block any attempts to bring the system out of the 1960s and into the next century. I've seen it going on for decades, and it's not gotten better.

 

[kjironman1]

Bro, the graphs you say are manipulated are backed by the actual budgets. So you don't need to read just the graphs. Dig deeper and see where all the money is going. They can't hide it, so you can break it down.

Mags really look. Tell me you can see where the manipulation is Please. These numbers are so simplistic and biased it is exactly what i say. Laughable. Took me about 2 minutes to totally rip them apart. Next thing he will do is blame Obama for skyrocketing healthcare costs.

 

[magnifier661]

K-12 School Spending and Attendance How Schools Spend Their Money

Figure K12‐04 displays 2011‐12 expenditures reported by school districts from their general funds, the various categories of expenditure and the share of total funding for each category. Figure K12‐05 displays the revenue sources for school districts.

Figure K12-04

Where Schools Spend Their Money

Classroom Instruction 62.4%

Transportation 2.7%

Other General Fund 2.7%

Pupil Services 5.2%

General Administration 5.3%

Instructional Support 11.7%

Maintenance and Operations 10.0%

Classroom Instruction includes general education, special education, teacher compensation, and special projects. General Administration includes superintendent and board, district and other administration and centralized electronic data processing.
Instructional Support includes research, curriculum development and staff development that benefits and supports student instruction.

Maintenance and Operations includes utilities, janitorial and groundskeeping staff, and routine repair and maintenance. Pupil Services includes counselors, school psychologists, nurses, child welfare, and attendance staff.
Other General Fund includes spending for ancillary services, contracts with other agencies, and transfers to and from other district funds.

1 Based on 2011-12 expenditure data reported by schools for their general purpose funding.

 

[Denny Crane]

Do you see the manipulation in this graph? I do. Please tell me you got better than this?

Spin away. Spin is all you got.

The actual data doesn't make your side look pretty.