Religion Mid East Religious War, Now with added USA Involvement!

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2Fluffy4U said:
https://jcpa.org/winners-and-losers-of-the-12-day-israel-iran-war/

"The World: Safer Than Before
The 12-day war could have become a regional disaster. Instead, it was bounded, focused, and effective. The world now faces a weakened Iran. Its nuclear program is degraded. Its missile arsenal is halved. Its proxies are silent. Its credibility is shattered.

Clausewitz wrote that war is the use of force to compel an enemy to do your will. Israel compelled Iran to stop. The United States reinforced that outcome. Iran, for all its threats and weapons, could not impose its will on anyone.

The true winner of this war is not only Israel or the United States. It is the international system. A nuclear threshold state was pushed back. A regime that has fueled terror across continents has been checked. And the principle that force can be used morally and precisely, in defense of peace, was upheld."

This article is in reply to previous post.
Opinion articles are just that - opinion articles.

I disagree with the claim of "..Backfired"
Feel free to disagree with the article I posted..
Click to expand...
Any chance you can send me whatever it is you've been smoking? The stuff we get here is apparently nowhere near as good as the stuff you're getting.......
 
This is utterly grotesque. If you're an apologist for this stuff, I have no problem calling you out as a disgusting, evil piece of garbage.

 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Any chance you can send me whatever it is you've been smoking? The stuff we get here is apparently nowhere near as good as the stuff you're getting.......
Click to expand...
Your comment, along with the 3 likes you got, show how indeed this is an echo chamber.
Feel free to disagree with me, but no need for the personal smirking 'smoking' comments..
Here:
Have some counter balancing info - of what I am smoking:

 
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2Fluffy4U said:
https://jcpa.org/winners-and-losers-of-the-12-day-israel-iran-war/

"The World: Safer Than Before
The 12-day war could have become a regional disaster. Instead, it was bounded, focused, and effective. The world now faces a weakened Iran. Its nuclear program is degraded. Its missile arsenal is halved. Its proxies are silent. Its credibility is shattered.

Clausewitz wrote that war is the use of force to compel an enemy to do your will. Israel compelled Iran to stop. The United States reinforced that outcome. Iran, for all its threats and weapons, could not impose its will on anyone.

The true winner of this war is not only Israel or the United States. It is the international system. A nuclear threshold state was pushed back. A regime that has fueled terror across continents has been checked. And the principle that force can be used morally and precisely, in defense of peace, was upheld."

This article is in reply to previous post.
Opinion articles are just that - opinion articles.

I disagree with the claim of "..Backfired"
Feel free to disagree with the article I posted..
Click to expand...
Stop? Stop what? Stop cooperating with nuclear inspectors?

That definitely seems like it backfired.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Wrong to attack civilians and deny them food and water.
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A. There is a difference between attacking civilians (i.e Oct 7th) and civilians being hurt during war.
B. Hamas is soon to release the hostages as it finallly realises it has lost/is losing/will continue to lose. (May take aprox. two to three months - that is my assumption if things progress 'quickly'...)
C. Once all hostages are released - Mark my comment / screenshot it, the begining of a brighter future for Gazan people will commence.
Until then - I have no sympathy for people holding hostages the same as people here have no sympathy for the Israeli side.. that is fine.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Stop? Stop what? Stop cooperating with nuclear inspectors?

That definitely seems like it backfired.
Click to expand...
You believe the inspectors know things the intelligence agencies don't? That is quite naive.
It has not backfired - if they resume any foul activity - they will be easly attacked again and again. The messege is very clear. Just like Hizballa is still getting his rockets shelters destroyed, so will Iran keep getting their foul nuclear facilities destroyed. Want a different future? Come to the table and discuss with Trump how you can prosper and gain financial future while not calling for hate and destruction of other people. Gl.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
A. There is a difference between attacking civilians (i.e Oct 7th) and civilians being hurt during war.
B. Hamas is soon to release the hostages as it finallly realises it has lost/is losing/will continue to lose. (May take aprox. two to three months - that is my assumption if things progress 'quickly'...)
C. Once all hostages are released - Mark my comment / screenshot it, the begining of a brighter future for Gazan people will commence.
Until then - I have no sympathy for people holding hostages the same as people here have no sympathy for the Israeli side.. that is fine.
Click to expand...
The civilians aren't holding anybody hostage. They wanted Hamas replaced just as much as Israel wanted Netanyahu replaced.

We shouldn't support Israel attacking and torturing civilians any more than we should support Hamas doing it on Oct 7th (or any other time).

We should be pressuring both Hamas and Netanyahu to be more peaceful or else to be replaced.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
You believe the inspectors know things the intelligence agencies don't? That is quite naive.
It has not backfired - if they resume any foul activity - they will be easly attacked again and again. The messege is very clear. Just like Hizballa is still getting his rockets shelters destroyed, so will Iran keep getting their foul nuclear facilities destroyed. Want a different future? Come to the table and discuss with Trump how you can prosper and gain financial future while not calling for hate and destruction of other people. Gl.
Click to expand...
You can't forcibly stop Iran from making nukes without occupying that country.

And good luck with that.

If they want nukes they're going to get them. They haven't historically wanted nukes.

Russia, Israel and the US have given Iran and every other country more motivation to develop nukes than they've ever had.

This has backfired in a huge way. Except that it has made war more likely. Which is what Netanyahu and Putin require to maintain power.

Trump is just dumb enough to help give it to them. Or corrupt enough to follow their strategy to hang on to power here in the US as well.

Everything about this is corrupt and evil.
 
I disagree entirely with this state of mind..

"If they want nukes they're going to get them. They haven't historically wanted nukes."

According to this logic whoever wants nukes should and could get it. No prob.

"They wanted Hamas replaced just as much as Israel wanted Netanyahu replaced."

I have yet to see or hear any consensus among Palestinians claiming they want Hamas replaced.

"



May 7, 2025 | Flash Brief
Large Minority Wants to Leave Gaza as Hamas Popularity Declines, New Poll of Palestinians Finds



Latest Developments
  • Hamas Approval Declines Steadily: Hamas remains more popular than its nationalist rival Fatah in both Gaza and the West Bank despite its approval rating declining overall to 57 percent, down from 75 percent in June 2024. In Gaza, where the Iran-backed terrorist group has ruled since 2007, its approval rating is just 43 percent. However, Fatah and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas fared even more poorly among those polled, with 81 percent of respondents calling for Abbas to resign. In tandem, the number of Palestinians who believe that the Hamas assault of October 7, 2023 was “correct” has declined to just 50 percent, with 59 percent of West Bank respondents and just 38 percent of Gaza respondents expressing agreement.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2025/0...rity-declines-new-poll-of-palestinians-finds/

Bibi seems to have approval rating of around 45% in Israel today according to this link:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1482429/israel-public-approval-rating-of-benjamin-netanyahu/

So all in all -
Hamas 57 (going down from 75)
Bibi 45 (going up from 41)


You are basing your views under premise and foundations that IMO are just not close to objective/factual.
 
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Sheldon Shape said:
Uncomfortable facts...

Click to expand...


Yeah. This is a great example of what I keep saying.

At the bottom of the page it says:

Israel’s propaganda machine is relentless. So is our reporting.
As Gaza burns and U.S. war rhetoric escalates, mainstream media repeats official lies. At Mondoweiss, we report what others won’t—exposing war crimes, resisting censorship, and amplifying Palestinian voices.

We don’t take corporate money. We rely on readers like you.

Help us reach our $165,000 summer goal. Give now to fund fearless journalism.

So - do you actually expect an objective view / reporting on the matter?

1. I Tried really hard but couldn't find the actual poll/published article. Please try and read the source material before reaching conclusions. I saw it referencing an article in HAARETZ (far left journal in Israel), but the article is kept for subscribers only. I looked for Hebrew articles referencing this poll and couldn't find anything yet - will keep looking.

2. The phrasing is important. I can totally believe a poll asking Israeli people if they think the people of Gaza are not innocent. Are there specific people that are innocent - of course. but as a society in total - as I have said here before - the trust between peoples is at historical low for good reasons. I wouldn't be much surprised to learn Palestinians think the same about Israelis - those genocidal occupiers aggressors..
So lets not try and make extremists more extreme.

A funny note I noticed in the provided articles just show how much this is brainwash hogwash. I will add it here and ask if anyone here can identify why this claim is just propaganda lies:

"64% of Israelis agree with this statement, almost two out of three. But it is actually considerably higher among Jewish Israelis, because that number is heavily weighted by Palestinians with Israeli citizenship. Palestinians make up about 20% of the Israeli population and 92% of them oppose the statement, so that leaves Jewish Israelis with overwhelming support.1"


I will answer:

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian with Israeli Citizenship".
and If you are currently struggling to understand this claim, I will be happy to debate and further explain it.
 
RR7 said:
How many will actually be left?
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If they release the hostages today - probably 2 million..
If they release them in 3 months? Probably 2 million..
If they release them in 6 months?
Probably 2 million..
If the war ends in a year or two?
Probably 2.1+ million..

Again - screenshot my comments and feel free to correct me when time comes...
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Again - screenshot my comments and feel free to correct me when time comes...
Click to expand...
In this situation, I'm not at all looking for some internet gotcha. Not wanting to prove anyone right or wrong. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of innocent lives have been ended because of a "war on terror". We americans have seen that justification before. Let's kill and kill and kill because amongst them are bad people. It's sad and horrific. But hey, maybe if we kill a few more, you'll have beach front property?!
 
Sheldon Shape said:


Click to expand...

Its probably a fun habbit quoting a media channel that has around 6% ratings and represents the most extreme minority in Israel and then claiming 'This Is Israel".
If anything, this channel is more of an evidence for Israel being a country allowing free speech.
To clarify my point here is an anecdote:

#DefundThePolice" Movement (2020)
What seemed to be the majority idea:
During the height of the George Floyd protests in 2020, the hashtag #DefundThePolice trended heavily on Twitter and Instagram. It was amplified by activists, influencers, and some public figures. On social media, it gave the impression that a majority of Americans supported completely defunding or abolishing the police.

What was actually true:
Polling at the time showed that only a small minority of Americans actually supported the idea of fully defunding the police. Even among African American communities — the group most directly affected by police violence — most people supported police reform or better accountability, not elimination of police funding.

For example:

  • A June 2020 Pew Research Center poll found that while 67% of Americans supported some kind of police reform, only 15% supported reducing police funding.

  • Many Democratic leaders distanced themselves from the slogan, stating it didn’t reflect their actual policies or the views of most constituents.
Why the mismatch?

  • Social media platforms tend to amplify extreme or emotionally charged views, and algorithms prioritize engagement — not representativeness.

  • A small number of users generate a large percentage of content (on Twitter, around 10% of users create 80% of tweets).

  • This vocal minority can create a false consensus effect, where it seems everyone agrees when in fact most people don’t.
 
RR7 said:
In this situation, I'm not at all looking for some internet gotcha. Not wanting to prove anyone right or wrong. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of innocent lives have been ended because of a "war on terror". We americans have seen that justification before. Let's kill and kill and kill because amongst them are bad people. It's sad and horrific. But hey, maybe if we kill a few more, you'll have beach front property?!
Click to expand...
This is not an internet gotcha.
It is an example of false narratives being cemented to people minds, and then afterwards it is plain impossible to change the core belief..
My point is - the claim of 'how many will be left there' - is a claim that has a purpose. An ideation purpose.
While in reality - it actually does not.
So you can choose to look at slogans and narratives fed by Al jazeera, or we can meet again when the dust of war settles and actually witness the reality on the ground.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
This is not an internet gotcha.
It is an example of false narratives being cemented to people minds, and then afterwards it is plain impossible to change the core belief..
My point is - the claim of 'how many will be left there' - is a claim that has a purpose. An ideation purpose.
While in reality - it actually does not.
So you can choose to look at slogans and narratives fed by Al jazeera, or we can meet again when the dust of war settles and actually witness the reality on the ground.
Click to expand...
So thousands of innocent lives haven't been taken?
 
BTW, I think we can all witness the discussion here is actually not beneficial.
All that actually happens here is that both parties are trying harder to prove they are right - rendering a movement to more and more 'extreme' content..

So instead of promoting dialogue and mutual understanding, each side finds themselves trying to prove their own point harder..
Will this lead to global peace? Not so sure..
What will?
 
2Fluffy4U said:
BTW, I think we can all witness the discussion here is actually not beneficial.
All that actually happens here is that both parties are trying harder to prove they are right - rendering a movement to more and more 'extreme' content..

So instead of promoting dialogue and mutual understanding, each side finds themselves trying to prove their own point harder..
Will this lead to global peace? Not so sure..
What will?
Click to expand...
where's the mutual understanding in genocide? asking for a friend
 
RR7 said:
So thousands of innocent lives haven't been taken?
Click to expand...
Your original claim insenuates of Genocide and population being removed from the land. My reply was that by the end of the war - Gaza will still have 2 millions Palestinians in Gaza - begining a brighter future.

The fact people died in this war is indeed a fact. Thousands. Fact. I am with you on it.
Make it stop - yesterday and before.
Release all hostages. End the war.
Allow Gazan people to live side by side with Israel. (Not from the river to the sea - because that means I am genocided).
 
RR7 said:
where's the mutual understanding in genocide? asking for a friend
Click to expand...

Genocide requires proof of intent to destroy a group as such — not just killing, not just devastation.

As of now, no international legal body has ruled that Israel is committing genocide.

The ICJ is investigating, but its statements so far are preliminary, not a legal determination.

So no.. Genocide is just an opinion right now.
An opinion that stems from Al Jazeera and other media/personal people with Agendas to push this narrative.

Facts are - no international legal body has ruled that Israel is committing genocide.

So you can discard this fact, or ask yourself why that is.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Genocide requires proof of intent to destroy a group as such — not just killing, not just devastation.

As of now, no international legal body has ruled that Israel is committing genocide.

The ICJ is investigating, but its statements so far are preliminary, not a legal determination.

So no.. Genocide is just an opinion right now.
An opinion that stems from Al Jazeera and other media/personal people with Agendas to push this narrative.

Facts are - no international legal body has ruled that Israel is committing genocide.

So you can discard this fact, or ask yourself why that is.
Click to expand...

Didn't German citizens try this defense after WWII was over?

No one said it was bad, we didn't know. If someone had said something we would have done something.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Its probably a fun habbit quoting a media channel that has around 6% ratings and represents the most extreme minority in Israel and then claiming 'This Is Israel".
If anything, this channel is more of an evidence for Israel being a country allowing free speech.
To clarify my point here is an anecdote:

#DefundThePolice" Movement (2020)
What seemed to be the majority idea:
During the height of the George Floyd protests in 2020, the hashtag #DefundThePolice trended heavily on Twitter and Instagram. It was amplified by activists, influencers, and some public figures. On social media, it gave the impression that a majority of Americans supported completely defunding or abolishing the police.

What was actually true:
Polling at the time showed that only a small minority of Americans actually supported the idea of fully defunding the police. Even among African American communities — the group most directly affected by police violence — most people supported police reform or better accountability, not elimination of police funding.

For example:

  • A June 2020 Pew Research Center poll found that while 67% of Americans supported some kind of police reform, only 15% supported reducing police funding.

  • Many Democratic leaders distanced themselves from the slogan, stating it didn’t reflect their actual policies or the views of most constituents.
Why the mismatch?

  • Social media platforms tend to amplify extreme or emotionally charged views, and algorithms prioritize engagement — not representativeness.

  • A small number of users generate a large percentage of content (on Twitter, around 10% of users create 80% of tweets).

  • This vocal minority can create a false consensus effect, where it seems everyone agrees when in fact most people don’t.
Click to expand...
Anybody who thought "defund the police" meant people wanted the police to be abolished was a fucking idiot.

The whole point was to cut funding for things that turn police into military occupiers (tanks, assault gear, etc).

Police should be peace officers, who are there to serve and protect.

Rather than funding them to be cowboys who run around fucking the sheep and lying for each other to keep the game going.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
BTW, I think we can all witness the discussion here is actually not beneficial.
All that actually happens here is that both parties are trying harder to prove they are right - rendering a movement to more and more 'extreme' content..

So instead of promoting dialogue and mutual understanding, each side finds themselves trying to prove their own point harder..
Will this lead to global peace? Not so sure..
What will?
Click to expand...
Abundance would lead to global peace.

People like Bibi and Trump and the corporations who support them want artificial scarcity. This prevents peace.
 
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