Religion Mid East Religious War, Now with added USA Involvement!

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RR7 said:
And that is completely irrelevant to calling anyone and everyone who disagrees with Israeli actions an antisemite.
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Again, if they agree and support Hamas they are anti Jew. I support a two state and also support peace amongst Arab countries. But terrorist that like Hamas, Isis need to be crushed.
 
Hoopguru said:
Again, if they agree and support Hamas they are anti Jew. I support a two state and also support peace amongst Arab countries. But terrorist that like Hamas, Isis need to be crushed.
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Do they have pro- Hamas statements? I haven't seen those. They're definitely pro Palestinian. They're showing the devastation of Palestinian lives and areas. Are they promoting Hamas anywhere? Pro Palestinian lives is not anti jew
 
RR7 said:
Do they have pro- Hamas statements? I haven't seen those. They're definitely pro Palestinian. They're showing the devastation of Palestinian lives and areas. Are they promoting Hamas anywhere? Pro Palestinian lives is not anti jew
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You are correct.
 
Hoopguru said:
You are correct.
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I just didnt see anywhere that the tweeter condemned the brutal terrorist acts committed on the 7th. I hope they, Israel & Palestinian can get rid of Hamas for good once and for all.
 
Hoopguru said:
I just didnt see anywhere that the tweeter condemned the brutal terrorist acts committed on the 7th. I hope they, Israel & Palestinian can get rid of Hamas for good once and for all.
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Unfortunately, I do not think that even if the Palestinians are against Hamas, they can get rid of them themselves at this point.

Let's be reminded how Hamas actually got control of Gaza:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...-george-w-bush-2006-palestinian-election.html

Hamas is basically a dictatorship in Gaza at this point, there are no elections going forward of 2006, they control everything. What the Palestinians really think of them is impossible to know - and unfortunately, the only way to get rid of them is by external force at this point.

There is a chance that the majority of the Palestinian people still support them, there is a chance they do not. I really can't tell you either way. But, to remove them - will require external intervention.

I think that the article makes the correct assessment of where the conflict is, it is between countries that believe in democracy and ones that are religious / dogma led. But, it is unreasonable to expect that the big changes will happen immediately and you need to have societies that live under religious dictatorships / dogma regimes evolve slowly. There was a push to normalize democracy too soon too fast without the checks and balances - and it basically allowed a terror group to take control of the region and establish dictatorship. Same as what happened in Russia with the Putin regime. Let's remember that the social democrats were elected in Germany and became a dictatorship (Nazis), democracy without checks and balances can become dictatorship really fast.

Hack, with our checks and balances we are still at danger of a dictatorship trying to take over via elections (see Trump, Donald).
 
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Reports Expose US Billionaires and Corporate Profiteers Enabling Israel's War on Gaza

"As the Biden administration attempts to deny the death toll of Israel's campaign of mass murder in Gaza and sell genocide as a stimulus for the U.S. economy, these are the death merchants profiting from the war machine."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/us-weapons-to-israel
 
Honest Government Ad Israel & Gaza



Both sides are illegally killing civilians. Yet, for too many people, only one side deserves what they are getting. Fucking moronic logic...
 
Erdogan threatens to declare war on Israel and send military to Gaza in chilling warning
The Turkish president suggested in a speech at a pro-Palestine rally this afternoon that Turkey can "come at any night unexpectedly".

Turkey's president appears to have threatened to intervene in Gaza in an impassioned speech at a pro-Palestine rally this evening.

Recep Tayyip Erdogan delivered a speech to a rally this afternoon in which he told attendees Israel was responsible for war crimes, and framed Hamas as "freedom fighters".


In comments that have prompted Israeli outcry, and led the country to withdraw its diplomatic presence, president Erdogan suggested assaults on Gaza constituted a "massacre".

In the same speech, he reportedly said that Turkey can "come at any night unexpectedly” to ecstatic reception from hundreds of thousands of attendees.

The footage, which is currently circulating on X, formerly known as Twitter, purportedly showed the pro-Palestine crowd responding with the chant: “Turkish military to Gaza.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1829092/Erdogan-Turkey-Israel-war-Gaza
 
Israel Has Killed More Kids in 3 Weeks Than Were Killed in All Global Conflicts Annually Since 2019

"One child's death is one too many, but these are grave violations of epic proportions," said the humanitarian group Save the Children. "A cease-fire is the only way to ensure their safety."

https://www.commondreams.org/news/children-gaza-israel
 
Sad....it's like 1938

German-Israeli woman taken hostage by Hamas at music ...Reutershttps://www.reuters.com › world › middle-east › german...

Hamas must be destroyed just like Hitler they want Jewish people dead and no Jewish State . Sure seems like 1938 when Hitler was rounding up Jews to be slaughtered.
The Allied forces had to Bomb the shit out of Germany to defeat the Nazis. Had to be done.

Has is much much worse than that nut that killed all those people in Maine. Most the Palestinians in Gaza want the barbaric Hamas gone too.
 
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Hoopguru said:
Sure seems like 1938 when Hitler was rounding up Jews to be slaughtered.
The Allied forces has to Bomb the shit out of Germany to defeat the Nazis.
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Agreed, it's time to bomb Germany again.

barfo
 
There is so much about this entire situation that I don't understand.

 
I understand Israel being angry. Even a quick overreaction. But denying innocent civilians food, water, and electricity is morally inexcusable.

Giving all of Gaza (more) reason to hate Israel isn't going to be effective either.

Hamas is not popular. Undermine them and offer rewards for the leadership. Huge rewards. And offer to replace the benefits that Hamas offers.

Simply prove that you are better.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I understand Israel being angry. Even a quick overreaction. But denying innocent civilians food, water, and electricity is morally inexcusable.

Giving all of Gaza (more) reason to hate Israel isn't going to be effective either.

Hamas is not popular. Undermine them and offer rewards for the leadership. Huge rewards. And offer to replace the benefits that Hamas offers.

Simply prove that you are better.
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Israel went from having world's sympathy to becoming pariah. Like US after 9/11. And population suffers for it.
 
crandc said:
Israel went from having world's sympathy to becoming pariah. Like US after 9/11. And population suffers for it.
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Excellent comparison. That's exactly what it reminds me of.

I hope they learn from it and stop sooner than we did.
 
If Israel were to lay down their weapons Hamass would kill every Jew in order to eradicate them.
If Hamass was to lay down their weapons there would be peace and the Palestinian people would have a much better future.
I bet Saudi will continue with the Abraham accord even after Hamas is illiminated.
 
My intentions for this post is to bring the sad reality to the horrors of war, not to take sides or justify anyone's action.

During all out war, when a group's very survival is threatened. The grey line between combatants, and civilians supporting, and or enabling the combatants becomes very blurred.

A history lesson. Did you know during ww2, twice as many civilians, 50 million, were killed than combatants, 22-25 million. All sides were guilty of killing a large number of civilians, including the USA.

Over severial days of fire bombing Tokyo, the USA killed 100,000 civilians, and made about 1 million homeless. The reported number of civilians killed in the Dresden Germany fire bombings are murking, but the low end starts at 25,000.

All signs point to an a much broader war in the near future. Prepare your mind for the horrible news that may come. Prepare your supplies so your family can make it through a shtf event. And do the best you can to stay the fuck out of the combatants way.
 
House Republicans are postponing vote on aid to Israel so they can go to Texas for a Trump rally.
 
Hoopguru said:
If Israel were to lay down their weapons Hamass would kill every Jew in order to eradicate them.
If Hamass was to lay down their weapons there would be peace and the Palestinian people would have a much better future.
I bet Saudi will continue with the Abraham accord even after Hamas is illiminated.
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So eliminate Hamas. What Israel is doing now will not reduce the number of threats or increase the likelihood of peace. It will more likely exacerbate the problem.
 
For several days, there have been reports of Russian troop movement inside of Syria. It is now believed they are manning posts on the border with Israel.
 
Phatguysrule said:
So eliminate Hamas. What Israel is doing now will not reduce the number of threats or increase the likelihood of peace. It will more likely exacerbate the problem.
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What if there was a murderous gang in SW Portland that kept firing rockets into NE Portland because they shouldn't even exist, and they should all die, even the SW gen population didn't want to be under the Gang rule, but are under seize form the murderous SW gang. NE Portland in order to survive being eliminated by the SW gang, decided that once and for all, to eliminate the rocket fire and terrorist acts for good, of the murderous sw gang. Again Israel wants a two state GAZA and peace accord with Saudi and others that recognize Israel existence. Hamas is no different than ISIS.

Is Israel laid down their guns and stuck out a peace offering to Hamas, the Jews would be all eliminated, like what Hitlers goal was. If Hamas laid down their weapons and recognized a two state Israel would offer peace and opportunities.
Im all for the Abraham accord as it will be the closest thing to peace in the mid east.
 
I was on the phone yesterday talking with some people we work with from Israel (very good AI, data engineers there) and we had to stop a couple of times as they all had to go get shelter because of rocket sirens. I think that when you are under direct attack - it is very hard to justify not trying to eliminate the people that are trying to kill you. If there is someone to blame here it is, imho, the Hamas people that do it from within civilian areas instead of away from it.

But, they know that if they hide behind civilians and Israel unintentionally hits some civilians everyone will be so upset at Israel instead without offering a proper solution, and if Israel does not try to protect its citizens, they are free to try and kill them without consequence. At the end of the day, Hamas is what is causing it. They leave Israel at a hard place, protect their people and look evil or let their people live under constant terror / death threat.

Let's remember that after Israel told people in Gaza to move south Hamas was the one that was blocking roads so people will stay in the north. Terror organizations doing terror things.
 
This is a very good exchange. Ana Kasperian makes a lot of good points. There's really no other way to see it. Both sides have grievances, and even if you could weigh those grievances and once side out weighs the other, nothing justifies the slaughter of non-combatants.

There is also the deeper question, of why the attacks were allowed to happen, it seems to attempt to justify an extreme response, which everyone knows will incite more violence from other Arab nations.

 
andalusian said:
I was on the phone yesterday talking with some people we work with from Israel (very good AI, data engineers there) and we had to stop a couple of times as they all had to go get shelter because of rocket sirens. I think that when you are under direct attack - it is very hard to justify not trying to eliminate the people that are trying to kill you. If there is someone to blame here it is, imho, the Hamas people that do it from within civilian areas instead of away from it.

But, they know that if they hide behind civilians and Israel unintentionally hits some civilians everyone will be so upset at Israel instead without offering a proper solution, and if Israel does not try to protect its citizens, they are free to try and kill them without consequence. At the end of the day, Hamas is what is causing it. They leave Israel at a hard place, protect their people and look evil or let their people live under constant terror / death threat.

Let's remember that after Israel told people in Gaza to move south Hamas was the one that was blocking roads so people will stay in the north. Terror organizations doing terror things.
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IMO, most Palestinians are good with two state and want peace throughout the region.
 
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