Religion Mid East Religious War, Now with added USA Involvement! (1 Viewer)

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barfo said:
I don't think you are in any position to promise that, unless your name IRL is Bibi.

barfo
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It is actually quite simple to prove I can promise that. How come?

Israel IS INDEED reliant on the U.S (Arms/Economics etc'). If U.S decides to stop aiding Israel - the war will end.
But - luckily U.S leaders are not as dumb as they perhaps may seem to others in oppositon (both Biden and Trump) decide to back Israel because they know that as long as Hamas holds these Hostages - Israel has legitimate reason for active actions.
Once you take away this reason - U.S leaders (no matter democ/repub) will absolutly tell Israel it no longer has legitimate reason for ongoing active actions.
Easy, simple and clear.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
It is actually quite simple to prove I can promise that. How come?

Israel IS INDEED reliant on the U.S (Arms/Economics etc'). If U.S decides to stop aiding Israel - the war will end.
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Sure it would. That's the reason Iran refuses to fight - the US isn't supporting them. That's the reason Russia refuses to fight.
That's the reason Ukraine surrendered as soon as Trump was elected. That's the reason there haven't been any wars in the last 250 years that weren't backed by the US.
It is surely a great thing for peace that no one else beside the US sells arms, and that Israel has no money to buy more arms.

But - luckily U.S leaders are not as dumb as they perhaps may seem to others in oppositon (both Biden and Trump) decide to back Israel because they know that as long as Hamas holds these Hostages - Israel has legitimate reason for active actions.
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Since when are a few hostages an excuse for war? "Active actions"? I think you mean "killing a whole bunch of people".

Once you take away this reason - U.S leaders (no matter democ/repub) will absolutly tell Israel it no longer has legitimate reason for ongoing active actions.
Easy, simple and clear.
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And certainly, every country in the world does exactly what Trump tells them. That's why Canada is now our 51st state.

barfo
 
I said reliant. Not supported by.
Big difference.

Geo-politics.
It is a thing.

Fluffy
 
2Fluffy4U said:
I said reliant. Not supported by.
Big difference.

Geo-politics.
It is a thing.

Fluffy
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It's a thing, but it's not the thing you apparently think it is.

You are right though, you said reliant on not supported by.
Israel is indeed reliant on the US - the US gives/sells them weapons and helps in their defense. But the US is not the only arms merchant out there.
Even poor countries with no friends fight wars. Israel will find a way without the US if they feel they need to.

barfo
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Iran is the one chanting 'Death to Israel, Death to America'. Israel has nothing against the Iranian people and actually like them a lot.

Israel is not doing any 'genocide' in Gaza.
If it was - there wouldnt be any Gazan in gaza by now don't you think?
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I mean, the Holocaust lasted 12 years... Unless you're suggesting that wasn't a genocide?

Once you have a neigbouring country willing and able to go house to house and kill you - you unfortunatly must remove the threat/ability.
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Just like if we have people willing to run planes into our buildings we need to give up all of our privacy rights and many other rights? Because that will make things so much better?
Sorry for the world suffering from this conflict, but frankly - there is no moral question at all for this. Israel must win this for a better world (IMO).
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Regardless of how many innocent children need to be killed? Really?
I do think the Moral campus got lost in the past few years and people get confused in not realising there is no 'pure good' or 'pure evil'. Only intrests. My intrests is for western democratic values that seperate religion from regime to hold and prevail.
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I'm sorry, we just disagree. Israel, doing what they are in Gaza, will create more hate and more people will attack them for longer.
 
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2Fluffy4U said:
I can promise you 100%!!!! - the minute Hamas releases all living hostages and dead bodies - The war will end.
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I don't believe that for an instant. This war is happening for political reasons within Israel. The Hamas actions were the excuse Bibi was waiting for.

Even if he were to pull out of Gaza, he would engage elsewhere. And then someone from Gaza would begin attacking Israel again. Because they have every reason to hate Israel, and even if they aren't capable, somebody will use that.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I don't believe that for an instant. This war is happening for political reasons within Israel. The Hamas actions were the excuse Bibi was waiting for.

Even if he were to pull out of Gaza, he would engage elsewhere. And then someone from Gaza would begin attacking Israel again. Because they have every reason to hate Israel, and even if they aren't capable, somebody will use that.
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I can totally understand where you are coming from and why you think that way. Unfortunately there isn't much I can do or say to sway you from these views and perceptions.
I believe these ideations are mainly because the western world is receiving it's information from the following sources: 1. Instagram/TikTok/X/Other Social media platforms that easily turn into echo chambers reinforcing narrative someone is paying money behind it to perpetuate it.
2. Qatar backed Media outlets (Al Jazeera).

If I was to gather my info from these source - I would think the same as you. (I do get the info and know their claims and reporting).

Try reading and gathering info for the next 3 months via other sources such as "YNET" (https://www.ynetnews.com/category/3083) [Israeli source] and "Iran International" (https://www.iranintl.com/en) [Iranian Source].

By being exposed to these sources - you won't change your mind necessarily - but you will see in better detail how other perceive these conflicts and get better understanding of the complexity of the situation.

Some reading about the attack and it's current status:

https://www.ynetnews.com/opinions-analysis/article/r1imtjf7ge#autoplay
 
2Fluffy4U said:
I can totally understand where you are coming from and why you think that way. Unfortunately there isn't much I can do or say to sway you from these views and perceptions.
I believe these ideations are mainly because the western world is receiving it's information from the following sources: 1. Instagram/TikTok/X/Other Social media platforms that easily turn into echo chambers reinforcing narrative someone is paying money behind it to perpetuate it.
2. Qatar backed Media outlets (Al Jazeera).

If I was to gather my info from these source - I would think the same as you. (I do get the info and know their claims and reporting).

Try reading and gathering info for the next 3 months via other sources such as "YNET" (https://www.ynetnews.com/category/3083) [Israeli source] and "Iran International" (https://www.iranintl.com/en) [Iranian Source].

By being exposed to these sources - you won't change your mind necessarily - but you will see in better detail how other perceive these conflicts and get better understanding of the complexity of the situation.

Some reading about the attack and it's current status:

https://www.ynetnews.com/opinions-analysis/article/r1imtjf7ge#autoplay
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I appreciate the sources, but I don't get my news from social media. I read many sources and I pay attention to the bias of those sources.
 
This kinda of how I feel.. ;)
 

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The Iranian regime is a theocratic Shia Islamic totalitarian government under Sharia law. I read somewhere the average age in Iran is 32 and most dont want the theocratic /shria, death to Israel & USA in power. Im hopeful their days are numbered.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Where in Israel do you live and have any of Iran's attacks been near you?
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I will not provide TMI, but I spend a lot of time in our buliding bomb shelter and can hear the interceptors launching and explosions of those rockets not shot down.
Haven't slept a night since everything started.
Odd thing is during the day it is relativly quiet - but around 21:00 we get barraged every 4-5 hours until the morning..
 
Shaboid said:
Trump vetoed Israeli plan to kill Iran's supreme leader, US officials say

I wish he'd veto the Israeli plans to kill Palestinian children...
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Israel has no plan to kill children. That is a plain injected propaganda slogan.
If you actually believe that - ask yourself how and from what source did you come to this conclusion..

Here - I looked it up for you:
https://theconversation.com/israels...ately-targeting-children-new-un-report-252398

A UN report article of writers from Doha claiming and citing Palestinian sources..
Of course it must be true then..
 
2Fluffy4U said:
I will not provide TMI, but I spend a lot of time in our buliding bomb shelter and can hear the interceptors launching and explosions of those rockets not shot down.
Haven't slept a night since everything started.
Odd thing is during the day it is relativly quiet - but around 21:00 we get barraged every 4-5 hours until the morning..
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Thanks for sharing, keep your head down and stay safe!
 
 


Watch the speed of this projectile - hitting Israel this night. Seems perhaps hypersonic to me..
 
Israel seems to be using its citizens as human shields by putting their weapons in densely populated Tel-Aviv.

Not cool.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
Israel seems to be using its citizens as human shields by putting their weapons in densely populated Tel-Aviv.

Not cool.
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Please provide source/evidence for the weapons (what weapons? which location?) you speak of. Otherwise - your statement is hogwash.
 
BigGameDamian said:
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I wouldn't worry much about it.
Iran is unable to attack Israel the way they wanted (they planned for a barrage of 1000 rockets) but due a large percentage of their launchers being destroyed and hunted by IDF drones, they are only able to produce rocket attacks of dozens every 4-5 hours..
If Iran attacks any other military force around the area - it will only provide reason and excuse for those to join in on the attacks and accelerate the time until they lose more and more assets...
This is mainly a threat for negotiation reasons by putting pressure from domestic parties (i.e.a lot of readers here) that want no involvement of their country in this conflict..
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Please provide source/evidence for the weapons (what weapons? which location?) you speak of. Otherwise - your statement is hogwash.
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Of course no amount of evidence matters for you because you're so dug in with your tribe and don't acknowledge anything else but here goes nothing...

 
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