Religion Mid East Religious War, Now with added USA Involvement! (1 Viewer)

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2Fluffy4U said:
Not sure what the fuss is all about.
He stated he is going to decide on Iran 'within' two weeks (exact quote).
This is just negotiations tactics.
It is feasible for him to decide right now (as it is within) or following the two week span.
The purpose is - allow additional shifting of trends and get better picture prior to engagment.
In the meantime - Iran and Israel keep pounding each other. It is a win win situation for US as once they enter both parties will be glad shit about to end now..
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I get you aren't American and might not realize. Trump has pledged "in two weeks" ten times in just his second term and nothing happened. He constantly uses the phrase and does nothing. He has variously pledged in two weeks to reveal his health care plan, show his taxes, produce Barack Obama's "real" birth certificate, and have a deal between Russia and Ukraine. None of which happened. He uses phrase I will do it in two weeks when he either can't do something (birth certificate), (won't do something (show taxes), or has absolutely no idea how to do something (most everything).
 
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LIVE FEED...

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DAY 8
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Supreme leader faces stark choice...after reading this Im more convinced than ever, that the, supreme leader, second to allah and his mafia of religious mullah terrorist, have been occupying Iran and the Iranian people. Israels targeting of that regime, will give the Iranian people at least a chance to establish a new secular government that they have wanted.
 
Regime changed imposed from outside at gunpoint? Worked great in Iraq, didn't it? US would overthrow bad guys, institute secular democracy, peace and love everywhere, greeted with flowers, a matter of weeks, not months or years ...
PS who should restore secular democracy in this country?
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Ok guys..so let Iran have nuclear weapons. I guess you also wouldn't mind them nuking Israel or at least let Hamas and the Palestinians kill all Israelis from the river to the sea..
Sure.. no problem.
All you care about is human lives.
Right.
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To me there's a clear difference from civilian lives and military lives...even though all are human. No country should be targeting hospitals and schools or residential neighborhoods ...that's where my empathy kicks in.
 
crandc said:
Regime changed imposed from outside at gunpoint? Worked great in Iraq, didn't it? US would overthrow bad guys, institute secular democracy, peace and love everywhere, greeted with flowers, a matter of weeks, not months or years ...
PS who should restore secular democracy in this country?
Click to expand...
come on...so you wouldn't want the Iranian people to be able to have a chance at a new government where freedom is prevalent versus religious thugs that rule with sharia law that treat women like dirt? No, I dont want the US involved in this shit at all. I didnt like getting involved when a neighbor down the street was getting beat up by her boyfriend. He's not been back since the police came and she got a restraining order against him. Im surprised you wouldnt voice your support for the Iranians that want out from under that rule? Just like us wanting out from under trumps rule. Sometimes people need help, hell, if it weren't for the French we would have won our independence.
 
crandc said:
Regime changed imposed from outside at gunpoint? Worked great in Iraq, didn't it? US would overthrow bad guys, institute secular democracy, peace and love everywhere, greeted with flowers, a matter of weeks, not months or years ...
PS who should restore secular democracy in this country?
Click to expand...
Humanity works that way. Regimes are being changed by force. By intrests. By survival of the fittest.
The fact we live today in an era in which several civilisations are not willing to acknowledge that is just due to external indoctrinations made by those who oppose those civilisations and act to weaken it. (A la Tik Tok/China/Woke/Globalisation narratives infused in American academia for example).
Is it okay for you to prefer your son over some stranger kid?
Is it okay for you to prefer your city over some strange city?
What happens if a foreign city decides they want your city? Is it okay for you to oppose them until they they no longer exist?
When someone chants 'from the river to sea' the fact of the matter is majority can't even say what river and what sea, nor realise the actual meaning of that chant which means complete annhilation of Israel.
If I can't change their minds, teach them otherwise, show them joined interests can allign - I am left with no choice but to fight back.. same goes for Iran.
They can say - you know what - lets not enrich Uranium the way we did. We can do it and enjoy civilian nuclear energy..
US will leave them be.. The world will leave them be. Israel will be forced to leave them be.
But yet - they keep insisting.
Brute force then. Not because it is wanted. But because it is the only way possible.
 
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Hoopguru said:
come on...so you wouldn't want the Iranian people to be able to have a chance at a new government where freedom is prevalent versus religious thugs that rule with sharia law that treat women like dirt?
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How did that work out in Afghanistan? Iraq?
 
Phatguysrule said:
How did that work out in Afghanistan? Iraq?
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Are you aware of the difference between these instances? Are you familiar with the Iranian people secular view and percentage among people? Their academic knowledge? Iran has some of the best intelligent people of the world. Highly educated and highly capable of leading a society towards prosperity and peace.
It is harder to do once you are ruled by a tyrant with weapons and goons.
 
Phatguysrule said:
How did that work out in Afghanistan? Iraq?
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I think the 90 million in Iran would react a bit differently if the mullahs were ousted. This is the 21st century and theocracies that suppress, brutalize their own people because they cant defend theirselves and the supreme leader controls the army?
What if China invades Taiwan because they dont recognize their rights? At least the they can protect themselves with their own military and united citizens.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Are you aware of the difference between these instances? Are you familiar with the Iranian people secular view and percentage among people? Their academic knowledge? Iran has some of the best intelligent people of the world. Highly educated and highly capable of leading a society towards prosperity and peace.
It is harder to do once you are ruled by a tyrant with weapons and goons.
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These are the exact same arguments I heard about Iraq.
 
Hoopguru said:
come on...so you wouldn't want the Iranian people to be able to have a chance at a new government where freedom is prevalent versus religious thugs that rule with sharia law that treat women like dirt? No, I dont want the US involved in this shit at all. I didnt like getting involved when a neighbor down the street was getting beat up by her boyfriend. He's not been back since the police came and she got a restraining order against him. Im surprised you wouldnt voice your support for the Iranians that want out from under that rule? Just like us wanting out from under trumps rule. Sometimes people need help, hell, if it weren't for the French we would have won our independence.
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The argument keeps changing. First its nuclear weapons. Then we find out they don't have nuclear weapons. Then its because they hate Israel. Then it's because we need to free the Iranian people.

This is hilarious and could double as Lindsey Graham's account.
 
Hoopguru said:
I think the 90 million in Iran would react a bit differently if the mullahs were ousted. This is the 21st century and theocracies that suppress, brutalize their own people because they cant defend theirselves and the supreme leader controls the army?
What if China invades Taiwan because they dont recognize their rights? At least the they can protect themselves with their own military and united citizens.
Click to expand...

They want the regime ousted but don't want Israel or the U.S. to have anything to do with it. Don't pretend to know what's in the hearts and minds of the Iranian people.
 
Im sure you have noticed i have some passion with respect to the whats happening. Its not only How I feel at this time, its personal to me as well. Personal feelings imo, dont have to be ight or wrong, they are just feelings.
 
2Fluffy4U said:
Humanity works that way. Regimes are being changed by force. By intrests. By survival of the fittest.
The fact we live today in an era in which several civilisations are not willing to acknowledge that is just due to external indoctrinations made by those who oppose those civilisations and act to weaken it. (A la Tik Tok/China/Woke/Globalisation narratives infused in American academia for example).
Is it okay for you to prefer your son over some stranger kid?
Is it okay for you to prefer your city over some strange city?
What happens if a foreign city decides they want your city? Is it okay for you to oppose them until they they no longer exist?
When someone chants 'from the river to sea' the fact of the matter is majority can't even say what river and what sea, nor realise the actual meaning of that chant which means complete annhilation of Israel.
If I can't change their minds, teach them otherwise, show them joined interests can allign - I am left with no choice but to fight back.. same goes for Iran.
They can say - you know what - lets not enrich Uranium the way we did. We can do it and enjoy civilian nuclear energy..
US will leave them be.. The world will leave them be. Israel will be forced to leave them be.
But yet - they keep insisting.
Brute force then. Not because it is wanted. But because it is the only way possible.
Click to expand...
yeah but you can kill an Osama Bin Laden without blowing up Pakistan...it's demonstrable. This bombing of temples and schools and hospitals is not what you use brute force for...military targets are where wars should be conducted, not civilian infrastructures.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
They want the regime ousted but don't want Israel or the U.S. to have anything to do with it. Don't pretend to know what's in the hearts and minds of the Iranian people.
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I know Iranian people and their feelings. No need to tell me not to pretend.
 
The vast majority of the Iranian population is young unlike many countries...they would welcome a democracy in a heartbeat...all the young Iranians are flying to Dubai to party because they can't at home..they are ready to shake off the mullah culture there and would in a heartbeat.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
The argument keeps changing. First its nuclear weapons. Then we find out they don't have nuclear weapons. Then its because they hate Israel. Then it's because we need to free the Iranian people.

This is hilarious and could double as Lindsey Graham's account.
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What an arrogant ass. Dont ever associate that nut with me, your the one that always comes off as you have the answers to everything. Thats the worse insult (fightimg words if I was 30 years younger) Ive has thrown at me in years.
 
Hoopguru said:
What an arrogant ass. Dont ever associate that nut with me, your the one that always comes off as you have the answers to everything. Thats the worse insult (fightimg words if I was 30 years younger) Ive has thrown at me in years.
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You're mad at me because you take the same position as Lindsey Graham?

Ok.
 
Hoopguru said:
come on...so you wouldn't want the Iranian people to be able to have a chance at a new government where freedom is prevalent versus religious thugs that rule with sharia law that treat women like dirt? No, I dont want the US involved in this shit at all. I didnt like getting involved when a neighbor down the street was getting beat up by her boyfriend. He's not been back since the police came and she got a restraining order against him. Im surprised you wouldnt voice your support for the Iranians that want out from under that rule? Just like us wanting out from under trumps rule. Sometimes people need help, hell, if it weren't for the French we would have won our independence.
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You're making a huge assumption that the new regime would be better and not worse.

While what Iran has currently is not great, it is better in many ways than what other countries in the region, like Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan, have.

And France gave us money and arms, are you suggesting we do that with some sort of opposition in Iran?

Remember, we're here today because we already did a regime change in Iran of their democratically elected leader.
 
riverman said:
The vast majority of the Iranian population is young unlike many countries...they would welcome a democracy in a heartbeat...all the young Iranians are flying to Dubai to party because they can't at home..they are ready to shake off the mullah culture there and would in a heartbeat.
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How does this make sense when Israel is trying to install the Shah's son? How is that democracy?
 
Sheldon Shape said:
How does this make sense when Israel is trying to install the Shah's son? How is that democracy?
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I can only speak from my own experience...I taught a bartending class in Taipei in 2003 for a summer and had many Iranian students...got to know them and they talked about the closet freedoms they had in Tehran that they couldn't go public with like alcohol and other western pop culture stuff...nice folks. In Taiwan I had Israeli and Iranian students in the same class...some were dating each other. Outside of the mullah culture, they are just young people like all young people. it's when fundementalist religious fanatics take political power that sparks wars and sabre rattling. We are going through something similar here in the states under our wannabe monarch.I do not understand Netanyahu's actions at all but he's about as hawkish as Putin these days.
 
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riverman said:
I can only speak from my own experience...I taught a bartending class in Taipei in 2003 for a summer and had many Iranian students...got to know them and they talked about the closet freedoms they had in Tehran that they couldn't go public with like alcohol and other western pop culture stuff...nice folks. In Taiwan I had Israeli and Iranian students in the same class...some were dating each other. Outside of the mullah culture, they are just young people like all young people. it's when fundementalist religious fanatics take political power that sparks wars and sabre rattling. We are going through something similar here in the states under our wannabe monarch.I do not understand Netanyahu's actions at all but he's about as hawkish as Putin these days.
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Thank you for sharing that. That is something you'd remember. People all over are just people.

Everyone who isn't in power would happily welcome a democracy and freedom.

The question is, will the correct people be put in power? Will they allow a real true democracy?

I haven't seen much evidence of that happening historically.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
How does this make sense when Israel is trying to install the Shah's son? How is that democracy?
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They all fund political candidates of their liking...that's nothing new. I never said the ARE a democracy...in fact I said their democratic supporters are closeted at home.
 
riverman said:
I can only speak from my own experience...I taught a bartending class in Taipei in 2003 for a summer and had many Iranian students...got to know them and they talked about the closet freedoms they had in Tehran that they couldn't go public with like alcohol and other western pop culture stuff...nice folks. In Taiwan I had Israeli and Iranian students in the same class...some were dating each other. Outside of the mullah culture, they are just young people like all young people. it's when fundementalist religious fanatics take political power that sparks wars and sabre rattling. We are going through something similar here in the states under our wannabe monarch.I do not understand Netanyahu's actions at all but he's about as hawkish as Putin these days.
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They are the most pro-western/atheist of all the middle east. There's a reason why Anthony Bordain said Iran was the most welcoming to him of any place in the world.
 
Sheldon Shape said:
They want the regime ousted but don't want Israel or the U.S. to have anything to do with it. Don't pretend to know what's in the hearts and minds of the Iranian people.
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I dont. I know what my heart wants. And that is a regime that does not promote and calls for destruction of any other country on the globe.. making it simple..
 
riverman said:
yeah but you can kill an Osama Bin Laden without blowing up Pakistan...it's demonstrable. This bombing of temples and schools and hospitals is not what you use brute force for...military targets are where wars should be conducted, not civilian infrastructures.
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Evidence for temple, schools and hospitals hit in Iran please. If not available - kindly please amend your post accordingly.
To my knowledge - the IDF is targeting military / hostile administration / weapons-arms areas targets only.
No general population targeting (unlike to rockets fired from Iran that blast all over Israeli cities indesecremaenatly).
 
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