Minnesota: full of shit (confirmed) (2 Viewers)

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Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Right now, we have LMA, Wes, E-Will, Babbitt, Thomas, Nolan under contract for 26.558M in cap hit.
we also have holds for S. Williams stretch provision waiver, Lillard, Leonard, Claver and Freeland for 7.268M in cap hit, for 33.826M for 10 players.
Batum is a cap hold of 5.388M, and there is a roster spot hit of 488k or so (rookie min)
Regardless of what Batum does, we have ~24M in cap space. If he signs for 11M starting salary, we'd have ~13M in cap space, or roughly a max (max is 13.668M for 6th-year player and below)
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Treaty_of_Batum said:
But no longer can offer a max, right?
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yes but frankly who is left in FA that we'd even consider doing that? especially after we did not get Hibbert, we could always trade Wes down the road for more capspace if necessary
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

I have faith in Olshey (why I don't know, it's just a hunch) holding strong in negotiations; Minnesota will have to overpay in a S and T or Batum will end up back in Portland. I really think we are in the better negotiating position; they want him really bad and it wouldn't be a terrible thing for Portland to have to overpay some to keep him.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

IMO the longer this goes on the more Kahn gets squeezed to either give up more in a sign and trade or just move on and not even make Nic an offer. So far I think Olshey has handled this very nicely
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

BoomChakaLaka said:
Perhaps both Portland and Minny (together) are looking to get in on the Brooklyn and Orlando deal?

Perhaps Portland winds up with Humphries and Memphis pick (owned by Minny)?

Lopez and Minny's pick plus Minny's D.Williams and Nets' D. Stevens to Orlando

Batum to Minny

Howard to Brooklyn
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Uhhhhh ... mmmmmm .... No.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Blazinaway said:
IMO the longer this goes on the more Kahn gets squeezed to either give up more in a sign and trade or just move on and not even make Nic an offer. So far I think Olshey has handled this very nicely
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The only wrinkle would be Nicolas taking the QO, playing out the season and going into unrestricted free agency ... his agent seems emotional enough that I would't take this off the table.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

If we don't match, the Blazers will the Blazers even make the team minimum salary? Meyers Leonard might just get a big fat bonus check!
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

we don't have to meet the team minimum until the last day of the year. We can keep the space open for trades, amnestied guys, etc.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Nikolokolus said:
The only wrinkle would be Nicolas taking the QO, playing out the season and going into unrestricted free agency ... his agent seems emotional enough that I would't take this off the table.
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agree, I think that is the least likely outcome but it is possible
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

BrianFromWA said:
we don't have to meet the team minimum until the last day of the year. We can keep the space open for trades, amnestied guys, etc.
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I did not know that, thanks for the info, what exactly is "last day of year"? calendar? end of reg season? other
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

June 30, day before the moratorium.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

and it's not a huge deal...if for whatever reason we don't meet the minimum, it just means that we make the difference up by giving bonus checks to our own players. There's not a fine or loss of draft picks or anything. SAC did this a couple of years ago, iirc.

EDIT: They were close, but didn't end up paying. Additionally, there's a difference b/w "Cap Number" and "minimum payout of salary." Minimum payout is just that.

So, let's say we just sign Nic for the 11M he wants and some other FA at 2.5M a year (leaving our cap number at 49.3M, right at the minimum salary line for this year). We're good, right? Not really. Since Wes had the "toxic contract" a couple of years ago, his salary for this year is a couple of million below the cap # and as such we'd be paying end-of-year bonuses out for not meeting the minimum.
Conversely, lets say we sign Nic for the 11M and sign Lopez (for instance) to a max deal (starting at 13.6M). That would put our cap number at 60.4M, well over the minimum. Let's say that we now trade LMA at the deadline for a package of draft picks (no salary coming back). We would've paid about 60% of his 14M salary for the year (8.4M), but to the "cap number", he's now zero. However, that 8.4M is what's used by the league to determine the minimum salary payout. So our "cap number" would be 46.6M (well below the 49.3M "league minimum"), but to the league our "minimum salary out" number would be met.
 
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Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

BrianFromWA said:
and it's not a huge deal...if for whatever reason we don't meet the minimum, it just means that we make the difference up by giving bonus checks to our own players. There's not a fine or loss of draft picks or anything. SAC did this a couple of years ago, iirc.
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that's cool, would rather give a bonus to the players as a group as opposed to signing one guy just to make up the diference
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

BTW, Roy's salary also counts to that "minimum". So we don't need to worry about it. ;)
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

...
Coon's FAQ#15 said:
Yes, each team must meet a minimum payroll (49.337M this year) The team payroll is not the same thing as the team salary. The team salary refers to the sum of the amounts applied to team salary, including each player's full salary (see question number 14 for a full list). The team payroll refers to the monies actually paid. For example, if a team trades a player midway through the season his salary comes off the team salary, but the money actually paid while he was a member of the team counts toward the team payroll. The team payroll also includes salaries charged to teams for players waived through the Amnesty provision
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Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

makes sense, right? I mean, the minimum payroll was to make sure that owners weren't being cheap and not paying players. No one can say that Uncle Paul paying Roy 16+M this year to play against him is being cheap.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

OK, I have a question for you capologists. People talked about calling Minny's bluff. Well, what about Portland? Can't Portland make Nic an offer right now? Is there any reason they have to wait for Minny to make the first offer?
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

crandc said:
OK, I have a question for you capologists. People talked about calling Minny's bluff. Well, what about Portland? Can't Portland make Nic an offer right now? Is there any reason they have to wait for Minny to make the first offer?
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No, but Nic doesn't have to sign the offer. Nic doesn't want to be here
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

crandc said:
OK, I have a question for you capologists. People talked about calling Minny's bluff. Well, what about Portland? Can't Portland make Nic an offer right now? Is there any reason they have to wait for Minny to make the first offer?
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The primary reason to wait is because we want to use our cap space before Batum goes on our books. If we sign him, he will eat up a huge chunk of our cap space, especially if it's for around 11 mil per year. I think we're trying to get everything done first and then if Minny hasn't signed him we will throw another offer his way.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

POR can offer anytime they want to. But there's a catch here.

Nic's pretty sure he can get 11M/yr on the market (at least, if you believe MIN). So if POR was to say "we'll give you a 4/32M deal, because that's what we think you're worth" then Nic can just sign the 4.4M qualifying offer, play out the year, and leave next year as an unrestricted free agent. We don't have the ability to trade him unless he agrees, because he'd be giving up Bird Rights to do so.

Right now MIN is up a creek. They like Nic, they want Nic, they'd give up Webster and Miller and amnesty Darko to get Nic. But they have to do all those things BEFORE giving him an offer sheet. If we match it, they lose all of those players/trade chips and get nothing in return. Meanwhile, if we don't sign Nic to a contract he likes, he can sign the QO and we lose him in a year for nothing in return.

Right now, it's a matter of POR trying to extract as much as possible back from MIN, b/c it's in both teams' best interests to get a sign-and-trade done.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

BrianFromWA said:
POR can offer anytime they want to. But there's a catch here.

Nic's pretty sure he can get 11M/yr on the market (at least, if you believe MIN). So if POR was to say "we'll give you a 4/32M deal, because that's what we think you're worth" then Nic can just sign the 4.4M qualifying offer, play out the year, and leave next year as an unrestricted free agent. We don't have the ability to trade him unless he agrees, because he'd be giving up Bird Rights to do so.

Right now MIN is up a creek. They like Nic, they want Nic, they'd give up Webster and Miller and amnesty Darko to get Nic. But they have to do all those things BEFORE giving him an offer sheet. If we match it, they lose all of those players/trade chips and get nothing in return. Meanwhile, if we don't sign Nic to a contract he likes, he can sign the QO and we lose him in a year for nothing in return.

Right now, it's a matter of POR trying to extract as much as possible back from MIN, b/c it's in both teams' best interests to get a sign-and-trade done.
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So we can not trade him in February with out his OK? I did not know that, although i still think he would OK it if it was to a Playoff contender.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Pinwheel1 said:
So we can not trade him in February with out his OK? I did not know that, although i still think he would OK it if it was to a Playoff contender.
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Time lines are

Can't trade him period until December

Can't trade him without his permission for the first year

Can trade him to anyone we want after the first year except Minnesota (if they actually offer him a contract)

Can not trade him to Minnesota for the life of the contract they offer him (assuming they offer him)
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Mediocre Man said:
Time lines are

Can't trade him period until December

Can't trade him without his permission for the first year

Can trade him to anyone we want after the first year except Minnesota (if they actually offer him a contract)

Can not trade him to Minnesota for the life of the contract they offer him (assuming they offer him)
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So it behooves them to make us a good offer.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Mediocre Man said:
Time lines are

Can't trade him period until December

Can't trade him without his permission for the first year

Can trade him to anyone we want after the first year except Minnesota (if they actually offer him a contract)

Can not trade him to Minnesota for the life of the contract they offer him (assuming they offer him)
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That being said I still think there would be a pretty good chance he would OK a trade after December. Minnesota is not the only team that likes Nic. There are plenty of teams that would need him once the season starts and players get hurt. Teams that also think that once he gets there he would want to stay. Teams on the East Coast that have a shorter flight to Paris?
I doubt we would come out empty handed in that scenario. And that's if Nic doesn't change his mind and decides he likes the new coach and his role and wants to stay. Anything is possible.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

I think I would feel a lot worse about Batum leaving if he wasn't supposedly commanding a deal in the range of 11 to 11.5 million per year.
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Yes Minnesota is full of shit. What's new on the Batum front?
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Pinwheel1 said:
That being said I still think there would be a pretty good chance he would OK a trade after December. Minnesota is not the only team that likes Nic. There are plenty of teams that would need him once the season starts and players get hurt. Teams that also think that once he gets there he would want to stay. Teams on the East Coast that have a shorter flight to Paris?
I doubt we would come out empty handed in that scenario. And that's if Nic doesn't change his mind and decides he likes the new coach and his role and wants to stay. Anything is possible.
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no way, he would have to give up his bird rights, which in essence lops 20 million or so dollars off his contract, aka, any team acquiring him would be for a PURE rental, hence, crap offers in the first place
 
Re: Minnesota: full of shit?

Natebishop3 said:
I think I would feel a lot worse about Batum leaving if he wasn't supposedly commanding a deal in the range of 11 to 11.5 million per year.
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Same here ... it's the number that makes me queasy -- he's almost certainly never going to live up to it.
 
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