OT MLB to PDX: We're talking baseball to PDX

[blue9]

I'll just leave this here.

Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ons-taxpayers-should-never-subsidize-stadiums

 

[Natebishop3]

I'll just leave this here.

Taxpayers Should Never Subsidize Stadiums
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/a...ons-taxpayers-should-never-subsidize-stadiums

What does this have to do with the Portland Diamond Project?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

sounds like an uninformed comment. Soccer in Portland averaged more attendance than the Blazers the last several years and is expanding 4,000 more seats for next season to up the attendance to over 25,000 and approximately 15,000 on a paid waiting list. Yeah, no interest in soccer around here at all.

I think you missed the part in parentheses.....

But, in reality, it is easier to draw folks to any sport that has fewer games, are more affordable, etc..... that undoubtedly plays a part....

 

[blue9]

What does this have to do with the Portland Diamond Project?

What doesn't it have to do with it?

 

[julius]

What doesn't it have to do with it?

Is the public subsidizing this?

 

[CupWizier]

I think you missed the part in parentheses.....

But, in reality, it is easier to draw folks to any sport that has fewer games, are more affordable, etc..... that undoubtedly plays a part....

I did see it. Look at Houston and their attendance in Soccer ( there are other teams as well). Much bigger city and lousy attendance. Portland is a huge soccer city no matter how you look at it

 

[Hoopguru]

I used to love going to Mavericks games, as they made it a whole lot of fun!

 

[ripcityboy]

I believe Paulson footed some of that bill. At the very least that money came from bonds paid back by ticket taxes. I remember hearing Paulson say they paid the city back in record time, way ahead of schedule.

Still my point stands. The City made funds available and worked with Timbers ownership to get the deal done. And even then their was some people in City Hall shaking their heads. To get anything worth investing in sports entertainment takes some reciprocation from the public. Stadiums just don't drop out the sky with parking, public works and bus stops attached. I've seen people say "If it cost any amount of money, a dollar or half a million... I'm against it." That's not even a valid objection. That's someone too lazy to say no.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I did see it. Look at Houston and their attendance in Soccer ( there are other teams as well). Much bigger city and lousy attendance. Portland is a huge soccer city no matter how you look at it

I don’t know where I said it wasn’t (in fact, I’m older posts, I talk about how popular the Timbers were in the 70’s and 80’s). But the majority of folks don’t pay that big attention to it, and they certainly didnt pay attention to the politics and financing discussions and what not from a few years ago. People weren’t that engaged and educated on that side of things, especially before there was a successful team here.

 

[CupWizier]

I don’t know where I said it wasn’t (in fact, I’m older posts, I talk about how popular the Timbers were in the 70’s and 80’s). But the majority of folks don’t pay that big attention to it, and they certainly didnt pay attention to the politics and financing discussions and what not from a few years ago. People weren’t that engaged and educated on that side of things, especially before there was a successful team here.

I don't see how you can know that information unless you were in on the ground floor of the team acquiring a franchise for MLS Soccer. Soccer has been huge in Portland so it's only reasonable to think that there were fans engaged on the inner details of bringing a franchise to Portland just as there was for the Blazers when they first came in and now the same if the city is able to get a baseball team.

 

[CupWizier]

Still my point stands. The City made funds available and worked with Timbers ownership to get the deal done. And even then their was some people in City Hall shaking their heads. To get anything worth investing in sports entertainment takes some reciprocation from the public. Stadiums just don't drop out the sky with parking, public works and bus stops attached. I've seen people say "If it cost any amount of money, a dollar or half a million... I'm against it." That's not even a valid objection. That's someone too lazy to say no.

What people fail to understand is how economically impactful (in a positive way) that a sports franchise can be for a city and beyond. Unfortunately there will always be loud objectors because they have no interest in the sport, but fail to see what all it does to make the city a better place with new infrastructure and tourists coming to the city for a game and the money spent around town on game days/nights.

 

[CupWizier]

I used to love going to Mavericks games, as they made it a whole lot of fun!

I remember going to Civic Stadium to watch the tryouts during their time in Portland as that's when Bing Russell owned the team and Kurt Russel was a player for the team. Also, The Mavericks played an exhibition game against a team called the Portland Lobos which played in the local semi pro league that I was playing in at the time as U of Portland had a team in that league. The Lobos were filled with many ex pro and college players and had won the National Championship 2 years prior. I don't remember but I think the Lobos actually won the game.

 

[Hoopguru]

I remember going to Civic Stadium to watch the tryouts during their time in Portland as that's when Bing Russell owned the team and Kurt Russel was a player for the team. Also, The Mavericks played an exhibition game against a team called the Portland Lobos which played in the local semi pro league that I was playing in at the time as U of Portland had a team in that league. The Lobos were filled with many ex pro and college players and had won the National Championship 2 years prior. I don't remember but I think the Lobos actually won the game.

I remember the Lobo's but never went to their games.
I played legion ball for Taylor Electric and I believe a few of the guys that went to either Oregon or Linfield may have played for the Lobo's.
I think I told you in the past that my Cousin, Ken Hutchens, played for the Madison Contractors and they won a nation championship.

 

[CupWizier]

I remember the Lobo's but never went to their games.
I played legion ball for Taylor Electric and I believe a few of the guys that went to either Oregon or Linfield may have played for the Lobo's.
I think I told you in the past that my Cousin, Ken Hutchens, played for the Madison Contractors and they won a nation championship.

That's pretty cool. I played against Madison a year after they won their championship in Legion ball and a few players were left over from that team such as Tom Wise, Bruce Maxwell and Bill Baynard. It was my sophomore year and we played Madison in a best of 3 series to go to state and unfortunately we lost the 3rd game after splitting the first two very close games. The final game was played at Walker Stadium and the crowd grew so big that it was standing room only and people lined up on the outside. It was one of my biggest thrills in my sports career and a bit daunting for a very young looking 15 year old as some of those Madison guys looked like men, lol.

 

[dviss1]

What people fail to understand is how economically impactful (in a positive way) that a sports franchise can be for a city and beyond. Unfortunately there will always be loud objectors because they have no interest in the sport, but fail to see what all it does to make the city a better place with new infrastructure and tourists coming to the city for a game and the money spent around town on game days/nights.

So? Billionaires have enough money to build their own stadiums.

The RG cost 350 million to build.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I don't see how you can know that information unless you were in on the ground floor of the team acquiring a franchise for MLS Soccer. Soccer has been huge in Portland so it's only reasonable to think that there were fans engaged on the inner details of bringing a franchise to Portland just as there was for the Blazers when they first came in and now the same if the city is able to get a baseball team.

I mean, I work with folks that are upper-management for some decent-sized sponsors of the Timbers. I can’t say anything for certain as I’m not associated with the team... but the folks I do know had little knowledge of the financing arrangements and other things of that ilk. They had little clue. I can’t imagine most fans knew what was going on, as most don’t pay attention until the team is actually thrust upon you.

I mean, any of the die-hard soccer fans don’t really know or care about anything other than the fact we have a team. That’s pretty typical, though. I mean, how aware of the financing and politics surrounding us obtaining a franchise we’re you until it happened?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

So? Billionaires have enough money to build their own stadiums.

The RG cost 350 million to build.

And that cost was how many years ago?

 

[CupWizier]

So? Billionaires have enough money to build their own stadiums.

The RG cost 350 million to build.

I mean, I work with folks that are upper-management for some decent-sized sponsors of the Timbers. I can’t say anything for certain as I’m not associated with the team... but the folks I do know had little knowledge of the financing arrangements and other things of that ilk. They had little clue. I can’t imagine most fans knew what was going on, as most don’t pay attention until the team is actually thrust upon you.

I mean, any of the die-hard soccer fans don’t really know or care about anything other than the fact we have a team. That’s pretty typical, though. I mean, how aware of the financing and politics surrounding us obtaining a franchise we’re you until it happened?

I agree with that, that most people aren't that aware or even really care, but that is pretty much the case with the baseball team or any other new sport coming into the city.

 

[CupWizier]

So? Billionaires have enough money to build their own stadiums.

The RG cost 350 million to build.

Did you mean to respond to my post? I'm not following what you are responding to.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I agree with that, that most people aren't that aware or even really care, but that is pretty much the case with the baseball team or any other new sport coming into the city.

It much more publicized and discussed than the Timbers, or soccer in general, are. I’m honestly not hating on soccer. I love soccer. As a sport, you really can’t get better exercise. In general, though, it doesn’t have the following in the US that baseball does and therefore generally doesn’t generate the same level of revenue or attention.

 

[dviss1]

And that cost was how many years ago?

So? In that time what has happened to America's wealth?

It's shifted toward those same billionaires.

You're not making a point.

 

[dviss1]

Did you mean to respond to my post? I'm not following what you are responding to.

It seemed to me like you were trying to make an argument for the billionaires.

My contention is "so".

 

[PtldPlatypus]

What people fail to understand is how economically impactful (in a positive way) that a sports franchise can be for a city and beyond. Unfortunately there will always be loud objectors because they have no interest in the sport, but fail to see what all it does to make the city a better place with new infrastructure and tourists coming to the city for a game and the money spent around town on game days/nights.

You may be overstating the positive economic impact of franchises and stadiums.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/pub...the-economics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/

Building sports stadiums has an impact on local economies. For that reason, many people support the use of government subsidies to help pay for stadiums. However, economists generally oppose such subsidies. They often stress that estimations of the economic impact of sports stadiums are exaggerated because they fail to recognize opportunity costs. Consumers who spend money on sporting events would likely spend the money on other forms of entertainment, which has a similar economic impact. Rather than subsidizing sports stadiums, governments could finance other projects such as infrastructure or education that have the potential to increase productivity and promote economic growth.

 

[e_blazer]

You may be overstating the positive economic impact of franchises and stadiums.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/pub...the-economics-of-subsidizing-sports-stadiums/

Bean counters are always going to differ on things like this. The good old “spend the tax dollars on infrastructure” point of view is always the safe position (unless you consider the amount of money pissed away on some debatable projects or bloated budgets), but it totally overlooks the value of professional sports in establishing a reputation as a “big league” city. Portland is always going to be little brother to Seattle in public perception due, in part, to having only one (sorry Timbers fans) major sports franchise. Perception matters to companies looking to locate in an area. It’s not the only factor, obviously, but it is a factor.

 

[tlongII]

Bean counters are always going to differ on things like this. The good old “spend the tax dollars on infrastructure” point of view is always the safe position (unless you consider the amount of money pissed away on some debatable projects or bloated budgets), but it totally overlooks the value of professional sports in establishing a reputation as a “big league” city. Portland is always going to be little brother to Seattle in public perception due, in part, to having only one (sorry Timbers fans) major sports franchise. Perception matters to companies looking to locate in an area. It’s not the only factor, obviously, but it is a factor.

I seriously doubt the number of pro franchises plays any meaningful part in the decision of a company to locate to a city.

 

[blue9]

I seriously doubt the number of pro franchises plays any meaningful part in the decision of a company to locate to a city.

I thought Amazon chose Arlington, VA because of their abundance of pro sports teams?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

So? In that time what has happened to America's wealth?

It's shifted toward those same billionaires.

You're not making a point.

Dude, when did you become so abrasive?

In as few words as possible, I was supporting your point. The Rose Garden was privately financed at a price that would be significantly greater all these years later.

But hey, let’s just piss on each other than do what we’re here to do. Actually talk about the topic at hand.

 

[Natebishop3]

What doesn't it have to do with it?

They aren't asking the public to help fund the stadium? Any public money will be from the revenue generated by the taxes on the players. They have been very clear about this.

 

[dviss1]

Dude, when did you become some abrasive?

In as few words as possible, I was supporting your point. The Rose Garden was privately financed at a price that would be significantly greater all these years later.

But hey, let’s just piss on each other than do what we’re here to do. Actually talk about the topic at hand.

My bad. It didn't seem that way.

 

[HailBlazers]

They aren't asking the public to help fund the stadium? Any public money will be from the revenue generated by the taxes on the players. They have been very clear about this.

Welp… Looks like @Mediocre Man was right

Bonds for Portland Major League Baseball team could be in jeopardy

Two bills introduced in the Oregon Legislature could unravel the one public subsidy that proponents of a Portland major-league ballpark have said they would seek.

The bills would repeal laws passed by the Legislature in 2003 that allowed for up to $150 million in state-issued bonds to help pay for the construction of a major-league stadium in Portland. Under the 2003 law, the bonds would be paid back with the salaries of players and team managers.

The proposals were filed before the legislative session’s start later this month and first reported by Willamette Week. The Senate version, Senate Bill 607, is sponsored by Sen. Ginny Burdick, a Portland Democrat and the Senate majority leader. It’s backed by four other Democrats: Sen. Laurie Monnes Anderson of Gresham, Sen. Floyd Prozanski of Eugene, Sen. Chuck Riley of Hillsboro and Rep. Susan McLain of Hillsboro.

Rep. Tawna Sanchez, D-Portland, is sponsoring an identical bill in the House.