MM's all important summer league game 1 grades

[Natebishop3]

Really bro! Start a thread with your own name in it?

You've been awfully diva-ish lately. Are the Blazers forgetting to stock your dressing room with the required fruits and candy bars that you stipulated in your contract?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Lillard - A. Lillard would have got an A+ had he shot the ball better.

I almost turned off at halftime (I'm on East Coast time.) Rather glad I didn't. At half time I was formulating lines in my head about how we should have taken Wroten and how my opinion of the Big Sky was plummeting. Also how it was true that Nolan was better than Lillard. Lillard looked a step slow and my worst fears that he wasn't a PG were confirmed.

Then came the second half. I am officially a convert. I was vocally against him (although I did prefer him to both Drummond and Barnes) but not any more. Y'know who he reminds me of? Brandon Roy. A pint-sized Brandon Roy. He's a 4-year college guy (well, only a couple of games one year before he redshirted), injured in college (doomy foreshadowing music plays in background), not the fastest or most athletic or flashiest player, picked at #6.... It's uncanny! But the most encouraging similarity is that they both can (could) get layups when they want. That was the thing that REALLY impressed me about Lillard in the second half - he finishes layups of ridiculous difficulty level. He's "and-1" in the non-corporation sense. So all that shit I said about him being just a jump-shooter? It was just shit. And the step-back three at the end was just icing.

Leonard - B. Leonard gets a B based on his experience. He really has no post game to speak of at this point, but his footwork was solid, and it looks like he should be able to develop something quickly. He also swings his arm down on blocks (tsk, tsk, tsk, Meyers) Now for the good. He is super athletic, has good footwork on both offense and defense. Can really help on pick and roll defense. Sets a great screen. He has a bit of a attitude on the floor. Goes to the rim hard. Looks like he has a nice shooting motion, and in a real offense would do well.

Another guy who looked lost at first. He really is a project. He's kind of lost out there at the moment and kind of top-heavy and not too graceful. BUT. He is a specimen. And he's a hard worker. And tough. And he can hit his free throws. I'll eat my hat if he doesn't have a significantly better career than Andre Drummond. BUT BUT: if there's anybody who should spend some time in the D-League, it's him. He is VERY RAW INDEED. But also very promising. Impressed despite my significant reservations. So much so that if Chicago offered Noah for him straight up, I would actually think a few minutes before accepting.

Matthews - A. Wes looked very good in his limited minutes. Nothing more to say really

That's too high. He shouldn't be here and he's trying to do things he will never be able to do and getting turnovers. He should be happy with watching in street clothes like JR Smith et. al. But I like the commitment.

Smith- A. Nolan Smith is not a PG, but he seems to be a very good combo guard off the bench that can handle the ball as well as hit some shots for you. One of those guys that won't lose you a lot of games

Nolan was about the only pleasant surprise in the first half. And it was very pleasant. He looks much longer out there than I remember and he really is being more aggressive, and looked very solid in the ten minutes before he twisted his ankle (that spin move followed by a flip finish? Awesome!). I predict he becomes a solid rotation player. Yes, on the basis of ten minutes. In Summer League. So sue me.

Babbitt - C+. He can shoot, but that's still about it. He rebounds ok, but still can't get by anyone. I believe until he is dealt, he will be nothing more than a specialist, which is sad cause I like Luke

That's harsh - Babbitt was one of our best players. He is still a lights-out shooter with a quick release (because he shoots it flat-footed, like Brent Barry) but he's actually trying to build on that and managed to get his guy in the air a couple of times and get to the rim where he was usually fouled. And he got double-figure rebounds. And he wasn't completely abused on D. And he brought the ball up court a couple of times, so his handle isn't terrible. He actually looked like a solid NBA benchwarmer out there. I was impressed. I think he's got his confidence back, like Nolan.

Barton - D. Not impressed at all after game number 1

Gotta totally disagree. He started very slow and was kind of invisible, but he got going and ended up with 6 rebounds, a steal and a couple of assists. I wanted a lot from him (he was my fave of our draft picks) and was disappointed at first, but I warmed to him, particularly his defense. He's just a baller: he found other ways to contribute. Very happy with him.

You forgot: Diebler. He's a shooting specialist who missed his shots and was -18, so you'd think F. But actually I thought he was much more well-rounded than I expected. Brought the ball up the court, worked hard on defense, wasn't a total slug. He could turn into a specialist who doesn't kill you in his time on the court. I say C-.

 

[Eastoff]

You've been awfully diva-ish lately. Are the Blazers forgetting to stock your dressing room with the required fruits and candy bars that you stipulated in your contract?

What kind of consumption are you suggesting HCP enjoys here?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Really bro! Start a thread with your own name in the title?

Yeah, MM. You're really starting to get to HCP's level of narcissism.

He would know.

 

[PapaG]

Umm... You know that last night WAS summer league, right?

Yeah. What's your point? Babbitt was one of the better offensive players on the floor, regardless of it was a pick-up game at Club Sport.

I don't hate Babbitt. I like him. I just don't think he's anything more than a threat from 3. I hope he proves me wrong and becomes more. And I didn't expect anything more from him given where he was drafted (and projected to be drafted). Every good team has a guy who can come in and stretch the D by being a 3-point threat. For that, I like him. He's not untouchable in my book, but you don't just dump him either - he definitely has a purpose and a role.

I guess I don't see a problem with a guy who has one elite NBA skill. If you're expecting him to have the all-around game of Scottie Pippen, well, you're always going to be disappointed in the guy. Good teams need role players, too.

So I don't hate him - I'm just not impressed, either. The next time he gets his feet off the ground will be the first time.

Irrelevant to the role he'll fill on this team (or another team). If he's even a Matt Bullard in terms of his one elite NBA skill, that's good enough to play a role on a title team.

 

[PapaG]

You don't have to put all of your love in the Babbitt basket, we have other white players you can cheer for on the team now.

Um, OK. I don't care if he's green, so long as he shoots 43-45% from 3pt range.

 

[PapaG]

I agree. I don't hate Babbitt by any means at all, and I really don't think there has been much "hate" as PapaG said. We were bashing his defense though, because he's getting absolutely torched by a bunch of summer leaguers. His defense did not look good.

I guess my expectations for him are very low, so it's hard for him to disappoint me. His shot looked good last night, however, and he did a good job rebounding so all and all I was pleased with his performance.

Did you read the game thread? Most of the first three pages were posters ripping on Babbitt. Do you people even enjoy watching games?

That game thread was a disaster, but a very funny read in hindsight.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I almost turned off at halftime (I'm on East Coast time.) Rather glad I didn't. At half time I was formulating lines in my head about how we should have taken Wroten and how my opinion of the Big Sky was plummeting. Also how it was true that Nolan was better than Lillard. Lillard looked a step slow and my worst fears that he wasn't a PG were confirmed.

Then came the second half. I am officially a convert. I was vocally against him (although I did prefer him to both Drummond and Barnes) but not any more. Y'know who he reminds me of? Brandon Roy. A pint-sized Brandon Roy. He's a 4-year college guy (well, only a couple of games one year before he redshirted), injured in college (doomy foreshadowing music plays in background), not the fastest or most athletic or flashiest player, picked at #6.... It's uncanny! But the most encouraging similarity is that they both can (could) get layups when they want. That was the thing that REALLY impressed me about Lillard in the second half - he finishes layups of ridiculous difficulty level. He's "and-1" in the non-corporation sense. So all that shit I said about him being just a jump-shooter? It was just shit. And the step-back three at the end was just icing.

I said Lillard was the PG version of Roy a week or so ago. And yesterday, I saw it during the second half, and then I saw lots of posters mention that same thing. Affirmation! Even if it is only 1 SL game, others are seeing it too.

But what I see from those two.... and as you say, they both get layups at will.... They can go right or left, though it seems like both like to go to the left, then switch and finish right-handed. They both have the ability to take a bump, realize they don't have the best shot with whichever hand the ball is in, and then switch to the other hand for the finish.

When Lillard drove to the hoop, he also had the vision to kick the ball to the corner to an open shooter if he was going to have to force a bad shot. That also reminds me of B-Roy. I thought he did a good job of playing within the game and making the most of what he was given.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Yeah. What's your point? Babbitt was one of the better offensive players on the floor, regardless of it was a pick-up game at Club Sport.



I guess I don't see a problem with a guy who has one elite NBA skill. If you're expecting him to have the all-around game of Scottie Pippen, well, you're always going to be disappointed in the guy. Good teams need role players, too.



Irrelevant to the role he'll fill on this team (or another team). If he's even a Matt Bullard in terms of his one elite NBA skill, that's good enough to play a role on a title team.

My point is the same as everyone else's..... It's SL. See Travis Outlaw, Bayless, etc. And yes, Babbitt was one of the better offensive players on the floor. But considering the guys on the floor, that really ain't saying much.

As for your response to the rest of my post.... it was pretty much everything I said. I'm not sure if you're disagreeing or agreeing, seems like your approach implies disagreeing, but everything you wrote pretty much agrees with what I've been posting in this (and other threads about his performance) so I'd assume it was agreeing.

 

[Natebishop3]

Did you read the game thread? Most of the first three pages were posters ripping on Babbitt. Do you people even enjoy watching games?

That game thread was a disaster, but a very funny read in hindsight.

Nah I didn't read the first few pages. I didn't get to start watching until the second half and that's where I joined the game thread.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Did you read the game thread? Most of the first three pages were posters ripping on Babbitt. Do you people even enjoy watching games?

That game thread was a disaster, but a very funny read in hindsight.

Ripping on Babbitt is kinda fun, though. He's just that ugly, pasty white boy with no athleticism, and when you consider the level of athleticism in the league, he's just kind of an anomaly. He's somewhat of a tweener. You don't see many 3/4-types survive in the NBA with his level of athleticism.

The fact that he is surviving tells me a couple of things. One, he's a solid shooter. Two, aside from him occasionally chucking some outside deep bombs, he's probably a pretty smart player and makes the most of what he has.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Did anyone else notice the amount of "clanging" from the rims? I mean, shots that barely hit the rim and went through still made a huge clang.

 

[PapaG]

My point is the same as everyone else's..... It's SL. See Travis Outlaw, Bayless, etc. And yes, Babbitt was one of the better offensive players on the floor. But considering the guys on the floor, that really ain't saying much.

As for your response to the rest of my post.... it was pretty much everything I said. I'm not sure if you're disagreeing or agreeing, seems like your approach implies disagreeing, but everything you wrote pretty much agrees with what I've been posting in this (and other threads about his performance) so I'd assume it was agreeing.

Well, Babbitt shot 43% from 3pt in games last year, and it wasn't SL.

There is a 15 page thread on SL, and in it, you're raving about Lillard and Leonard because of their performance in the same SL game.

At least be consistent. Either SL matters, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then why do you have 32 posts in a thread dedicated to a meaningless SL game?

 

[PapaG]

Ripping on Babbitt is kinda fun, though. He's just that ugly, pasty white boy with no athleticism, and when you consider the level of athleticism in the league, he's just kind of an anomaly. He's somewhat of a tweener. You don't see many 3/4-types survive in the NBA with his level of athleticism.

The fact that he is surviving tells me a couple of things. One, he's a solid shooter. Two, aside from him occasionally chucking some outside deep bombs, he's probably a pretty smart player and makes the most of what he has.

Babbitt went from entirely useless to a solid NBA shooter in one season, and that was without a SL or even a real training camp.

I'm all for ripping players, but it seems silly to continue to berate a guy who ended up being one of the better players on the floor last night, and who has proven that he has the skill to be a top-level NBA specialist, if given the opportunity.

 

[Eastoff]

Babbitt went from entirely useless to a solid NBA shooter in one season, and that was without a SL or even a real training camp.

Fact.

 

[Natebishop3]

Babbitt went from entirely useless to a solid NBA shooter in one season, and that was without a SL or even a real training camp.

I'm all for ripping players, but it seems silly to continue to berate a guy who ended up being one of the better players on the floor last night, and who has proven that he has the skill to be a top-level NBA specialist, if given the opportunity.

I noticed a real change in his confidence last season, and I'm seeing it in SL. Confidence makes all the difference with a shooter. It was a lack of confidence that held Martell back.

 

[PapaG]

I noticed a real change in his confidence last season, and I'm seeing it in SL. Confidence makes all the difference with a shooter. It was a lack of confidence that held Martell back.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Babbitt is never going to be a star player, or a good defender, but that doesn't matter as long as he can rebound a bit and shoot the hell out of the ball. I liked that he was driving to the hoop last night.

I just don't think he's a wasted pick at all, and he's the type of guy off the bench that a good coach can utilize very effectively.

Mike Miller could barely walk the last few years, but if he had an open shot, he'd hit it consistently enough to extend the defense out to him. James Jones has never played defense in his life, but because he can shoot, he just helped win Miami an NBA title.

 

[Ed O]

I don't know how you can grade Leonard anything other than an A, unless you want to ding him for the 7 fouls.

He looked great! I liked the pick, but I don't (or didn't) have much hope he'd contibute this year. His free throw stroke looked awesome, though, and when a 7 footer hits the offensive boards and can make his free throws... that's a good thing. He has areas to improve, for sure, but overall I thought he was great.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

Babbitt went from entirely useless to a solid NBA shooter in one season, and that was without a SL or even a real training camp.

I'm all for ripping players, but it seems silly to continue to berate a guy who ended up being one of the better players on the floor last night, and who has proven that he has the skill to be a top-level NBA specialist, if given the opportunity.

Agreed.

I don't mind players who have one skill... if they can do it consistently and it's valuable. (One of the reasons I still like Bayless is because of his ability to get to the free throw line, although he dipped this year a bit.)

Babbitt can and does shoot the deep ball very well. That's a very valuable skill to have (spreading the floor) and it's something that he should be able to keep and build on.

Great defender? No. But neither is Novak or Ryan Anderson... and they are pretty valued around the league.

I'm pleased with Babbitt's continued maturation and, at age 23, I think there's some room for him to keep getting better.

Ed O.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Well, Babbitt shot 43% from 3pt in games last year, and it wasn't SL.

There is a 15 page thread on SL, and in it, you're raving about Lillard and Leonard because of their performance in the same SL game.

At least be consistent. Either SL matters, or it doesn't. If it doesn't, then why do you have 32 posts in a thread dedicated to a meaningless SL game?

I was already high on both Lillard and Leonard. I think Lillard is going to be a very solid PG in this game. I think he'll struggle at times, but a lot of players struggle in their very first SL game. It's his very first. We have yet to see him against anything above college competition (and many have judged because of the level of college competition).

Babbitt.... he's played SL, he's played preseason, NBADL, and he's played real NBA games. I expect him to understand the level of SL and know what he's up against, and know how to take advantage and put up respectable numbers.

Babbitt had solid numbers. But he didn't really do anything that jumped out at me, except the one thing he's good at: shoot. He had some nice box-outs for rebounds, too. But if this kid didn't come in and put up numbers in SL, I'd be severely worried about his future in the NBA. But other than some rebounds, he mostly stood outside waiting for his shot. And his D sucks.

Lillard, meanwhile (and yes, I realize he's a PG and has the ball in his hands), was driving, dishing, shooting, up on his guy on D (for part of the game, anyway). He showed me the things I wanted to see, and he did it in his very first SL game. So, call it inconsistent, but there's a reason for that level of inconsistency. Babbitt did what you'd expect guy entering his third season to do at SL. Lillard came in right off the bat and showed he's better than most SL players. Doesn't guarantee stardom, but it's something a lot of guys who turn out to be solid NBA players don't do.

If you can't get that logic/reasoning, then I won't be able to help you out. But I've seen this reasoning mentioned on forums (not to mention the analysts) for some time now, and it's legit IMO.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

Babbitt went from entirely useless to a solid NBA shooter in one season, and that was without a SL or even a real training camp.

I'm all for ripping players, but it seems silly to continue to berate a guy who ended up being one of the better players on the floor last night, and who has proven that he has the skill to be a top-level NBA specialist, if given the opportunity.

I don't really recall anyone berating him. But people do make fun of him. Boo-fucking-hoo.

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

I noticed a real change in his confidence last season, and I'm seeing it in SL. Confidence makes all the difference with a shooter. It was a lack of confidence that held Martell back.

Same as a lot of guys. When Nate was fired, players played freely and with confidence, knowing that mistakes were acceptable.

 

[magnifier661]

I wished I saw this game.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Babbitt went from entirely useless to a solid NBA shooter in one season, and that was without a SL or even a real training camp.

I'm all for ripping players, but it seems silly to continue to berate a guy who ended up being one of the better players on the floor last night, and who has proven that he has the skill to be a top-level NBA specialist, if given the opportunity.

No one has said he isn't a good shooter.. and that's all you're arguing. You're basically arguing with no one.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I don't really recall anyone berating him. But people do make fun of him. Boo-fucking-hoo.

Every player on the team gets berated at some point. Babbitt is fucking awful at defense, even in a summer league game, so he deserves berating for that.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say. Babbitt is never going to be a star player, or a good defender, but that doesn't matter as long as he can rebound a bit and shoot the hell out of the ball. I liked that he was driving to the hoop last night.

I just don't think he's a wasted pick at all, and he's the type of guy off the bench that a good coach can utilize very effectively.

Mike Miller could barely walk the last few years, but if he had an open shot, he'd hit it consistently enough to extend the defense out to him. James Jones has never played defense in his life, but because he can shoot, he just helped win Miami an NBA title.

I think he could definitely be a role player on a winning team. Hell, Korver is still in the league and what else can he do but shoot?

 

[BLAZINGGIANTS]

For the record, you're hilarious PapaG. You're trying to get me into an argument on Babbitt, like I hate him. I've said a lot of the same things you're saying to me, but you're trying to create an argument with me about it. But I don't disagree with you. Babbitt is what he is. He's a role player, and his lone role is to shoot (and try to get some boards, which every player should do in the NBA). And every team needs some role players.

But that won't keep me from having fun and making fun of him. He looks like Sam Perkins out there shooting that damn 3-ball. You can barely slide a sheet of paper under his shoes while he's shooting bombs. No hops. Very little athleticism. It's awesome he's come this far in a league full of, and generally dominated by, athletes. It's like how people made fun of Andre Miller and his lack of jumping. Even his teammates got into the action (Didn't one of his teammates say that Miller was the first player to drop 50 without getting off the floor once?).

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Lillard: A. CP3esque. Faster than you think, smart, knows when to get others involved, crafty, great finisher, good shooter, had some questionable passes, dribbling in the first half was a little herky jerk. After the jitters went away, made better decisions, hit shots, had some nice passes, nice step back 3, got to the line. Got others involved, even if they missed. Did a decent job on D, as well. Picked up a charge on Rivers, and generally stayed in front of him at a decent rate (considering Rivers truly has elite moves to get to the rack).

Barton: C. Very, very average. Shots weren't falling, missed a day of camp, had a couple nice rebounds, offensively and defensively but couldn't finish them. Played good D, played really hard, don't expect him to excel in this setting. He is more in the mold of Kobe, 1 on 1 player, than rat ball player with no defensive rotations or sets offensively. Surprised his mid range game wasn't falling for him. Also had a nice pass or two.

Diebler: D. Shooter that really struggled shooting yesterday. Could be an anomaly, but could also be a sign that he isn't Steve Novak from 3. Seemed to be working hard, but didn't really pop out good or bad. Didn't notice him get thrashed on D, but he was missing good shots. Looked to blend in more than anything.

Smith: B+. Really liked the aggressiveness, showed some speed, showed some good decision making, but only saw him for a limited amount of time, got his shot off. Too bad it was cut short.

Babbitt: Going to give him an offensive and defensive grade, or else it just wouldn't be fair to him. Offensively: B. Defensively: F-. Bad: Shitty dribbler, needs to be aware of his surroundings, forces shots off the dribble way too often, turns it over, drives to deep, pretty much anytime he drove it was "oh shit - turnover" or "oh shit - bailout foul, thank God". His defense is non-existent. Got torched, lost track of his man, led to some team fouls. Now for the good: Definitely a good shooter, got some decent rebounds, did manage to get to the FT line, has improved confidence, made some good passes (maybe not right on the numbers or anything, but the ball got there), seems to be a decently smart player, just not athletic enough (against these guys) to do what he wants to do.

Leonard: A. Raw offensively, attitude, big guy, fast, athletic, rebounds, blocks out, sets good picks, got the FT line, didn't seem too mentally fragile. Toughness. Questionable circus shot to say the least. Affected others shots. Does what it takes to win. Exceeded my expecations greatly.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Did anyone else notice the amount of "clanging" from the rims? I mean, shots that barely hit the rim and went through still made a huge clang.

Yeah - I think they're miked up or something.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Agreed.

I don't mind players who have one skill... if they can do it consistently and it's valuable. (One of the reasons I still like Bayless is because of his ability to get to the free throw line, although he dipped this year a bit.)

Babbitt can and does shoot the deep ball very well. That's a very valuable skill to have (spreading the floor) and it's something that he should be able to keep and build on.

Great defender? No. But neither is Novak or Ryan Anderson... and they are pretty valued around the league.

I'm pleased with Babbitt's continued maturation and, at age 23, I think there's some room for him to keep getting better.

Ed O.

And Novak got benched in the playoffs.

and Ryan Anderson is superior to Babbitt, also Ryan Anderson isn't a trap door on defense. He doesn't get absolutely manhandled by shitty players. He actually does decently against PF's.