Moe vs Jake

[THE HCP]

Think you're overrating Moe. Or maybe just remembering the 10 times a season he actually shows up.

An engaged Moe is not the Moe we usually get.

I just feel he does more on the floor than what gets recognized on here. Help defense, filling the lanes on breaks that spreads the floor. I don’t know, I’ve always been a big fan of guys that do the little things. Thats why I’m bummed Ed left. Teams really need guys like that to succeed.

 

[tester551]

We have no idea if Mo is even going to play tomorrow. Damn. We really need him on defense.

We know that Mo is not playing tomorrow.... The question is if he's playing Thursday night.

 

[ripcityboy]

We know that Mo is not playing tomorrow.... The question is if he's playing Thursday night.

Sorry, meant Thursday.

 

[Reep]

As many have said, if Mo is engaged and aggressively shooting (and making) threes, he is clearly the better option. However, if Mo is hesitant on his threes, or inconsistent, then it's a closer call. Then you would be comparing the advantage of Mo on defense and Layman on offense, which would likely come down to matchups.

I want Mo back, but am glad Layman will get some primetime minutes. I hope he doesn't defer too much. He needs to watch video of Korver and Ingles.

 

[illmatic99]

As many have said, if Mo is engaged and aggressively shooting (and making) threes, he is clearly the better option. However, if Mo is hesitant on his threes, or inconsistent, then it's a closer call. Then you would be comparing the advantage of Mo on defense and Layman on offense, which would likely come down to matchups.

I want Mo back, but am glad Layman will get some primetime minutes. I hope he doesn't defer too much. He needs to watch video of Korver and Ingles.

Speaking of Korver, it's been startling, but Stauskas is the spitting image of Korver when he's coming around picks at the three pt line when his hands already in place ready to rise up for a shot. Even the release is similar. Wonder if Nik can step up.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I just feel he does more on the floor than what gets recognized on here. Help defense, filling the lanes on breaks that spreads the floor. I don’t know, I’ve always been a big fan of guys that do the little things. Thats why I’m bummed Ed left. Teams really need guys like that to succeed.

The problem is he only does those things sometimes. Other times, he's totally disengaged and disappears. Motivated Mo is great. No Show Moe, not so much. Historically, we've seen a lot more of No Show Moe, especially early in the season.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

Speaking of Korver, it's been startling, but Stauskas is the spitting image of Korver when he's coming around picks at the three pt line when his hands already in place ready to rise up for a shot. Even the release is similar. Wonder if Nik can step up.

I thought Stauskas would be a better player when I saw him at Michigan. I figured his shooting would transfer like Korver's did, but he was slow and not as good at hitting the three. He got really unlucky going to Sacramento where they hazed the shit out of him, and then landed on the bench at Philly where he got out intermittently. But who knows, maybe third team's the charm.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I thought Stauskas would be a better player when I saw him at Michigan. I figured his shooting would transfer like Korver's did, but he was slow and not as good at hitting the three. He got really unlucky going to Sacramento where they hazed the shit out of him, and then landed on the bench at Philly where he got out intermittently. But who knows, maybe third team's the charm.

4th team. He's already completed the NBA trifecta of shit - SAC, PHI (when they won 10 games) and BRK.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

4th team. He's already completed the NBA trifecta of shit - SAC, PHI (when they won 10 games) and BRK.

BNM

Jeez. Poor guys turning into Luke Ridnour.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Jeez. Poor guys turning into Luke Ridnour.

At least Luke got to play on a 52-win SEA team early in his career. He also didn't have three different head coaches his rookie year, like Stauskas did in SAC.

Man, that organization has been a total shit show since Petrie and Adelman left. They had a winning record and made the playoffs every year Adelman was there - all 8 seasons. Since he left, they've had a losing record every year and haven't sniffed the playoffs. In fact, the ONLY winning seasons SAC has had in the last 35 years were the 8 years Adelman was their coach.

BNM

 

[ripcityboy]

At least Luke got to play on a 52-win SEA team early in his career. He also didn't have three different head coaches his rookie year, like Stauskas did in SAC.

Man, that organization has been a total shit show since Petrie and Adelman left. They had a winning record and made the playoffs every year Adelman was there - all 8 seasons. Since he left, they've had a losing record every year and haven't sniffed the playoffs. In fact, the ONLY winning seasons SAC has had in the last 35 years were the 8 years Adelman was their coach.

BNM

Yeah. I guess Boogie made his life a living fucking hell there too. I guess it started as rookie hazing and then turned into fighting. Kind of shit the Jail Blazers got up too. His confidence was shot for quite a while after that.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Yeah. I guess Boogie made his life a living fucking hell there too. I guess it started as rookie hazing and then turned into fighting. Kind of shit the Jail Blazers got up too. His confidence was shot for quite a while after that.

When the best player on your team is a petulant man child, it pretty much guarantees a dysfunctional locker room.

BNM

 

[Reep]

Speaking of Korver, it's been startling, but Stauskas is the spitting image of Korver when he's coming around picks at the three pt line when his hands already in place ready to rise up for a shot. Even the release is similar. Wonder if Nik can step up.

He certainly is on the right team if he wants an NBA career. I guess I'm less optimistic with him because of all the guards we have on the roster. Seems like it will come down to him or Layman, but unless something happens to the starters or Curry, it seems like there is only one other shooter spot available. Possible exception is if they find a second unit of Curry, Stauskas, ET, Layman, Collins works.

 

[Boob-No-More]

He certainly is on the right team if he wants an NBA career. I guess I'm less optimistic with him because of all the guards we have on the roster. Seems like it will come down to him or Layman, but unless something happens to the starters or Curry, it seems like there is only one other shooter spot available. Possible exception is if they find a second unit of Curry, Stauskas, ET, Layman, Collins works.

I think that's the plan initially. We'll probably also see some of Curry, Stauskas, ET, Collins and Meyers, as well as Curry, Stauskas, ET, Layman and Meyers, depending on match ups. I know Meyers is still Meyers, but the plan is to surround ET with shooters, plus Collins/Meyers looked good against SAC (yeah, I know, it's SAC). Collins also looked good next to Nurk. At this point, he generally looks better playing the 4 next to a bigger center than he does as a back up center.

BNM

 

[Mediocre Man]

I preferred Curly

 

[chzbrgr]

Depends if we get Motivated Moe or No Show Moe. If the former, I'd rather start Moe due to his defense and bring Layman off the bench as a back up 4 (with Turner technically playing point forward at the 3 spot). Put Turner out there with Curry, Stauskas, Layman and yes, Meyers, and he has 4 guys around him who can all shoot the ball. If we have to play Turner, the more shooters around him, the better.

If Moe decides to sleepwalk through the first two months of the season, yet again. Just bench his ass and give all his minutes to someone who actually shows up to play (i.e. Layman).

BNM

Do you think Meyers out played Collins enough to bump him from his spot in the rotation?

Edit: on topic I have been really impressed by jake he looks extremely confident shooting the ball and playing in the offense. He’s playing under control and is just more dynamic on that side of the ball than harkless.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Do you think Meyers out played Collins enough to bump him from his spot in the rotation?

No, not at all. In fact, nothing short of an all star level season (aka: a miracle) from Meyers can bump Zach from the rotation. Zach is the future. This franchise kind of bet the farm on him in that 2017 draft. He better pan out and he needs experience to reach his potential.

But, I believe we need both of them to contribute this year due to our lack if depth up front. Zach is versatile enough he can play both the 4 and 5 spots, and should be our number one back up at both positions. Obviously he can't play both at once. He will play some 4 next to Nurk at the 5, and some 5 with Chief/Moe/Layman at the 4, but there will also be times when he will play the 4 next to Meyers at the 5 - like we saw in the SAC game. Given that the point of letting Ed go was to allow Zach to play closer to the basket, he's actually not a bad fit next to Meyers, who can provide spacing by knocking down 3-pointers. And, Zach being a strong defender and rim protector, can help minimize Meyers' defensive shortcomings.

I know a lot of people have completely given up on Meyers, and as tempting as it is to take the easy way out and join them, I readily acknowledge Meyers' weaknesses, but also note that he played better last season (albeit in very limited minutes) and has looked decent in the preseason (I know, it's preseason), and hope to see him carry that forward into the regular season. He won't be a starter, he won't even be our primary big off the bench. He will basically be our third center behind Nurk and Zach, but given that we will also need Zach to play some power forward (and it really is his best position at this point in his career), Meyers WILL play more than last year. So, I'm hoping for the best (realizing that the best is that Meyers can knock down open shots, set good screens, make good outlet passes and rebound well enough that we don't get killed on the boards when he's on the floor).

BNM

 

[KingSpeed]

We rode Moe' s hot play to the 3rd seed last year, surprising the experts ... Why can't we do it again...?

You are correct. He was a big reason we won 13 straight.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

You are correct. He was a big reason we won 13 straight.

His crappy play is a big reason we were very inconsistant before that too. Which is my problem with both of our starting forwards, not enough consistency. At least with Aminu the efforts there most nights, with Moe who knows...

 

[THE HCP]

When the best player on your team is a petulant man child, it pretty much guarantees a dysfunctional locker room.

BNM

Could you apply the same to me and this dump?

 

[Boob-No-More]

Could you apply the same to me and this dump?

Only if you remove the word man from "petulant man child".

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

You are correct. He was a big reason we won 13 straight.

The last 3 anyway...



BNM

 

[illmatic99]

Do you think Meyers out played Collins enough to bump him from his spot in the rotation?

He should, but he won't. Neil won't allow it after the big fuss he made about Collins being able to handle the increased workload.

 

[stampedehero]

Layman does not play enough minute for a fair comparison. I agree with @Scalma that Moe may be injured again and the compariso n is invalid. If Moe makes it through the season without injury I would be surprised.

 

[Scalma]

He should, but he won't. Neil won't allow it after the big fuss he made about Collins being able to handle the increased workload.

No, he shouldn’t.

Preseason:

Zach: 8.4 ppg, 6 rpg, 56% FG, 50% 3PT

Absolutely no reason why his minutes should be reduced, especially not in favor of a big who pulled down 3 boards a game and did nothing except shoot an unsustainable percentage. Despite Leonard’s shooting, Portland’s ORTG was still higher with Zach on the court. The defense isn’t even debatable.

If Harkless is healthy Leonard doesn’t even belong on the court. Give those minutes to Layman instead.

 

[Boob-No-More]

No, he shouldn’t.

Preseason:

Zach: 8.4 ppg, 6 rpg, 56% FG, 50% 3PT

Absolutely no reason why his minutes should be reduced, especially not in favor of a big who pulled down 3 boards a game and did nothing except shoot an unsustainable percentage. Despite Leonard’s shooting, Portland’s ORTG was still higher with Zach on the court. The defense isn’t even debatable.

If Harkless is healthy Leonard doesn’t even belong on the court. Give those minutes to Layman instead.

Per 36 minutes:

Meyers = 22 pts, 7 reb, 3.5 ast, 0.88 stl, 0.44 blk, 1.3 TOV, 4.4 pf

Zach = 13.3 pts, 9.5 reb, 0.95 ast, .32 stl, .32 blk, 2.5 TOV, 5.1 pf

Agreed that Meyers' .727 3FG% is not sustainable. Neither is Zach's .500 3FG%.

BNM

 

[Scalma]

Per 36 minutes:

Meyers = 22 pts, 7 reb, 3.5 ast, 0.88 stl, 0.44 blk, 1.3 TOV, 4.4 pf

Zach = 13.3 pts, 9.5 reb, 0.95 ast, .32 stl, .32 blk, 2.5 TOV, 5.1 pf

Agreed that Meyers' .727 3FG% is not sustainable. Neither is Zach's .500 3FG%.

BNM

Zach’s percentages are a lot closer to reality than Meyers’. This isn’t an actual discussion worth having. By weeks end the odds are good Meyers will be back to being Meyers.

 

[illmatic99]

Zach’s percentages are a lot closer to reality than Meyers’. This isn’t an actual discussion worth having. By weeks end the odds are good Meyers will be back to being Meyers.

I hate Meyers just as much as the next guy, but he unequivocally outplayed Zach in preseason. You can't cherry pick one guy's stats while dismissing the other's.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Zach’s percentages are a lot closer to reality than Meyers’. This isn’t an actual discussion worth having. By weeks end the odds are good Meyers will be back to being Meyers.

It was preseason against some crappy competition. None of the stats are meaningful, but you brought up Zach's stats like they proved something. They didn't.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

I hate Meyers just as much as the next guy, but he unequivocally outplayed Zach in preseason. You can't cherry pick one guy's stats while dismissing the other's.

Thank you. You got my point.

BNM