Moe's big night

[kjironman1]

If I remember right it was Napier that score first in that 1st 8 minutes not Dame. That whole 1st unit was bricking the ball.

Mo Harkless- at 8:52 Misses a three point shot
Mo Harkless- at 8:07 Misses a 22 foot shot
Dame was putting the ball in Vonleh's hands
Dame was putting the ball in Nurkic's hands
Dame was putting the ball in CJ's hands
And Dame was putting the ball in Moe's hands.
Substitutions came at the 7 min mark and Turner came in for Harkless. Leonard came in for Nurkic.
Yes you remember right Napier scored first on a Vonleh assist. But don't try to tell me Moe didn't get a chance. He just missed again as usual.

 

[kjironman1]

Okay fine, I'm convinced by the "give it a rest" crowd. Dame and CJ look to set up their teammates most of the time and hardly ever shoot first. I'll just ignore all the video that is so easy to go over to see teammate wide open right at the rim over and over again while those two are taking step-back 20+' jumpers.

I'm not saying the options around are great shooters but that hasn't stopped true playmakers from setting up teammates for decades. Part of this is on Stotts and the type of offense he runs but there are countless opportunities of players being wide open that never get the ball. Then when they finally do, they don't have a rhythm or much confidence. When that goes on all season long, confidence declines as do shooting percentages...especially of players who weren't great shooters to start with.

Here is the play by play
Go look at it
Player after player was missing shots not named Damian Lillard. This is not because Dame was not trying to get players the ball. This is because they were missing shots. Eventually Dame started taking the shot and it's a good thing he did or this game was over in the first half. At least he kept them in it.
http://stats.oregonlive.com/nba/pbp.asp?gamecode=2017112220&home=20&vis=22&meta=true

 

[TBpup]

Getting Mo 22' and 23' shots when he is shooting 24% from the '3' I would submit is not a good decision by Dame. Hit him cutting to the hoop. Giving the ball to a guy for a '3', even if it's wide open, when he has been bricking from out there all season is not a good shot. Perhaps some believe Dame can't make any better decisions than that. I believe he can.

Also, this is not just an 8 minute example. Quite the narrow tunnel vision of an example.

 

[kjironman1]

Well dame is shooting is lowest percentage in his career and he has miss his share of 2 foot too.

When no one else makes shots it's pretty easy to guard the teams best shooter.

 

[kjironman1]

Getting Mo 22' and 23' shots when he is shooting 24% from the '3' I would submit is not a good decision by Dame. Hit him cutting to the hoop. Giving the ball to a guy for a '3', even if it's wide open, when he has been bricking from out there all season is not a good shot. Perhaps some believe Dame can't make any better decisions than that. I believe he can.

Also, this is not just an 8 minute example. Quite the narrow tunnel vision of an example.

Oh so now you argument is that Dame needs to make the players move to better places to get open. Please. Just go back to defending Jason Quick. You are better at that.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I also believe Harkless is not quiting on Stotts but on Dame and cj he is and he saying through his play I don't want play with 2 guys at all.

I don't think he is quitting on anybody. He just can't shoot.

 

[kjironman1]

Oh so now you argument is that Dame needs to make the players move to better places to get open. Please. Just go back to defending Jason Quick. You are better at that.

The conversation is about Harkless crying that he isn't getting chances. The ball is in his hands and he is getting chances. He is just not making them. His percentages are bad because he misses shots. This is Moe's fault. Not anyone elses fault. Trying to defend him saying he got bad shots because he doesn't make the shots he is given is just ludicrous.

 

[TBpup]

FWIW, I spent last weekend in PHX talking about this very thing with someone who has multiple relatives in the front offices of different NBA teams over the years. Also with a guy who is a D1 player who was a teammate with a former #1 pick. The both say the same thing. One of them is a HUGE supporter of Dame and said he was was the player to big long before the Draft....but he still doesn't think he is a very good PG and much more of a scoring guard.

And I never said "Dame needs to make the players move to better places to get open." Now you're just making stuff up. But feel free if that is what you need to do to make your point. I'll point out career tendencies, you make stuff up and then say I said it. Interesting debate.

 

[Five Second Violation]

If i gotta tell you why this is a Quick issue then there is little hope you would understand in the first place. This story is timed exactly when we all know Moe is done in the starting rotation. He has never even hesitated to create problems for this franchise. It would be best if no Blazer ever talked to Jason Quick.

I don't think we "all know Moe is done in the stating rotation", since he continues to actually start. And if he is in fact done, then that in and of itself is newsworthy and probably warrants an article from Quick or somebody else. So no, I don't see this as a Quick issue.

 

[kjironman1]

And I never said "Dame needs to make the players move to better places to get open." Now you're just making stuff up. But feel free if that is what you need to do to make your point. I'll point out career tendencies, you make stuff up and then say I said it. Interesting debate

But essentially this is what you are saying when you say "Harkless only shoots 24% from that distance. He needs to get better shots"
When Moe gets a shot around the rim teams foul him hard so he doesn't make the shot because they know he can't hit a free throw. So the only open looks he gets are looks from 22 ft or more. This is Basketball 101. Take away the shot they can make.
Cannot even believe we are having this conversation. Moe Harkless will be a bench player inside of a week. As soon as Aminu is back he is getting no time at all. Maybe spot minutes at best. This was his opportunity to come up big and he blew it. Simply speaking his stock is as low as it can go now.

 

[kjironman1]

I don't think we "all know Moe is done in the stating rotation", since he continues to actually start. And if he is in fact done, then that in and of itself is newsworthy and probably warrants an article from Quick or somebody else. So no, I don't see this as a Quick issue.

Disagree. Quick is doing what Quick always does. Looks for the Drama and puts in in print to get clicks. Moe is just his latest victim as he obviously didn't mean to throw Dame and CJ under the bus as to why he is not producing. If he did have that kind of animosity then there truly is a problem and then yes he should be done as a starter. Get rid of the cancer as soon as possible.

 

[Five Second Violation]

Okay fine, I'm convinced by the "give it a rest" crowd. Dame and CJ look to set up their teammates most of the time and hardly ever shoot first. I'll just ignore all the video that is so easy to go over to see teammate wide open right at the rim over and over again while those two are taking step-back 20+' jumpers.

I'm not saying the options around are great shooters but that hasn't stopped true playmakers from setting up teammates for decades. Part of this is on Stotts and the type of offense he runs but there are countless opportunities of players being wide open that never get the ball. Then when they finally do, they don't have a rhythm or much confidence. When that goes on all season long, confidence declines as do shooting percentages...especially of players who weren't great shooters to start with.

Lillard usually at least makes a concerted effort early in quarters and especially early in games to get the role playing guys involved. Uusally with mixed success, and lately it's been really awkward. By the time we reach the 4th quarter the offense invariably has bogged down to 1 on 1 or limited movement high pick and roll sets that unsurprisingly result in Dame or CJ chucks and inefficient looks in general.

CJ on the other hand has supreme tunnel vision and his instinct is almost always to either shoot the ball or defer on the play to one of our other three ballhandlers and stand around. For a guy with his ballhandling skills, his playmaking leaves a lot to be desired in general.

It's still a two way street though and it comes down to coaching mostly. Our playmakers aren't doing enough for the role players and our role players aren't doing enough for our playmakers. When that's the case and everyone seems to be underachieving at once, you look to the coach.

 

[TBpup]

First I said it, now I'm essentially saying it? Okay....keep making up whatever you need to to make your point. If you don't believe a good PG cant help get his teammates better shots, re-read Basketball 101 since apparently you played at a very high level and know so much about it.

Just having holiday fun.

 

[Five Second Violation]

Disagree. Quick is doing what Quick always does. Looks for the Drama and puts in in print to get clicks. Moe is just his latest victim as he obviously didn't mean to throw Dame and CJ under the bus as to why he is not producing. If he did have that kind of animosity then there truly is a problem and then yes he should be done as a starter. Get rid of the cancer as soon as possible.

I didn't interpret Moe's comments as him throwing Dame and CJ under the bus, and they're both pretty discerning guys so I really doubt that they would either. Quick has been a muckraker in the past, but I don't see that as his angle on this one. Moe's decline this year definitely warrants a story at this point and I think our team's journalists would be remiss to not at least push that angle forward.

 

[TBpup]

I didn't interpret Moe's comments as him throwing Dame and CJ under the bus, and they're both pretty discerning guys so I really doubt that they would either. Quick has been a muckraker in the past, but I don't see that as his angle on this one. Moe's decline this year definitely warrants a story at this point and I think our team's journalists would be remiss to not at least push that angle forward.

Agreed. Quick just reported on something said in an interview. It's obvious that Harkless has had a significant decline so to avoid addressing it would be poor journalism. Like it wouldn't be muckraking to ask about why the Blazers are dead last in the NBA in fast break points when they are having trouble scoring and they are not shooting well from the outside. Seems like it would be a point of emphasis. Very fair question IMO.

 

[kjironman1]

I didn't interpret Moe's comments as him throwing Dame and CJ under the bus, and they're both pretty discerning guys so I really doubt that they would either. Quick has been a muckraker in the past, but I don't see that as his angle on this one. Moe's decline this year definitely warrants a story at this point and I think our team's journalists would be remiss to not at least push that angle forward.

Too many Blazer players have been burnt by Quick. Sorry i don't buy that at all. Just my take on it. He will wait untill Aminu gets back and then the next interview will happen and he will try to make this a bigger issue. Then of course Aminu (Who by the way can't shoot either) will be struggling and the pattern will be set. Quick is a vulture and knows no bounds when it comes to this kind of thing. Totally ego driven.

 

[kjironman1]

First I said it, now I'm essentially saying it? Okay....keep making up whatever you need to to make your point. If you don't believe a good PG cant help get his teammates better shots, re-read Basketball 101 since apparently you played at a very high level and know so much about it.

Just having holiday fun.

Getting Mo 22' and 23' shots when he is shooting 24% from the '3' I would submit is not a good decision by Dame.

This is a direct quote from YOU. Yes you said it. No i don't agree with it. Dame can only get the guy looks. If he doesn't cut to the basket or of other teams foul him because they know he isn't going to make a free throw then guess what. Moe is not a good option. This is not on Dame.

 

[Five Second Violation]

Too many Blazer players have been burnt by Quick. Sorry i don't buy that at all. Just my take on it. He will wait untill Aminu gets back and then the next interview will happen and he will try to make this a bigger issue. Then of course Aminu (Who by the way can't shoot either) will be struggling and the pattern will be set. Quick is a vulture and knows no bounds when it comes to this kind of thing. Totally ego driven.

As a fan I'm interested in hearing what Moe has to say for himself as well, though. A little hard introspection may be necessary for this guy to stop being so invisible out there. Maybe, maybe not.

 

[TBpup]

What I said not what you said I said. This sounds like a Larry David comedy and doesn't match up with the quote that you showed either. Nice media attempt but keep trying.

 

[Trackjack]

Mo Harkless- at 8:52 Misses a three point shot
Mo Harkless- at 8:07 Misses a 22 foot shot
Dame was putting the ball in Vonleh's hands
Dame was putting the ball in Nurkic's hands
Dame was putting the ball in CJ's hands
And Dame was putting the ball in Moe's hands.
Substitutions came at the 7 min mark and Turner came in for Harkless. Leonard came in for Nurkic.
Yes you remember right Napier scored first on a Vonleh assist. But don't try to tell me Moe didn't get a chance. He just missed again as usual.

Wow he got 2 shots and 1 more the rest of the game.

 

[TBpup]

Wow he got 2 shots and 1 more the rest of the game.

Tons of good opportunities to establish a rhythm.

 

[kjironman1]

As a fan I'm interested in hearing what Moe has to say for himself as well, though. A little hard introspection may be necessary for this guy to stop being so invisible out there. Maybe, maybe not.

I can absolutely agree with that. I also must admit i am a little jaded toward Mr. Quick.

 

[kjironman1]

Wow he got 2 shots and 1 more the rest of the game.

Okay here is play by play again
http://stats.oregonlive.com/nba/pbp.asp?gamecode=2017112220&home=20&vis=22&meta=true
Go look at the first 8 mins of that game. Lillard tried every player on the court at least twice in the first 6 mins of play. Turner was brought in for Harkless and Leonard was brought in for Nurkic. It's all there. This is not just this game. This is every game the Blazers play. Harkless misses his shots. If you can't see that then i got nothing for you. They fell behind 16-0 and then Bazz started hitting some shots at the 5 min mark. As soon as that happened Lillard started getting looks and he started hitting shots also. Like i said in another comment.This is basketball 101. Players got to hit shots.
Now Harkless wants to start complaining to Quick that he isn't getting enough looks. Sorry Moe. Make some shots and you will get more chances.

 

[Scalma]

Okay here is play by play again
http://stats.oregonlive.com/nba/pbp.asp?gamecode=2017112220&home=20&vis=22&meta=true
Go look at the first 8 mins of that game. Lillard tried every player on the court at least twice in the first 6 mins of play. Turner was brought in for Harkless and Leonard was brought in for Nurkic. It's all there. This is not just this game. This is every game the Blazers play. Harkless misses his shots. If you can't see that then i got nothing for you. They fell behind 16-0 and then Bazz started hitting some shots at the 5 min mark. As soon as that happened Lillard started getting looks and he started hitting shots also. Like i said in another comment.This is basketball 101. Players got to hit shots.
Now Harkless wants to start complaining to Quick that he isn't getting enough looks. Sorry Moe. Make some shots and you will get more chances.

You’re talking to people that will die on a hill defending scrubs while simultaneously having no problem criticizing the only players that keep portland from having the worst collection of talent in the league. What I’m trying to say is...good luck.

 

[kjironman1]

You’re talking to people that will die on a hill defending scrubs while simultaneously having no problem criticizing the only players that keep portland from having the worst collection of talent in the league. What I’m trying to say is...good luck.

Yeah. I understand. Just bugs me.

 

[Labinot41]

I Wonder what other teams/GM's think about Harkless? If they still think he has a good contract or not. I mean, most games of the season the nation don't watch Blazers games because of the pacific time or they are not interesting enough as a .500 team or whatever, but yesterday all watched the game because they wanted to see the 76ers, or atleast the first half until okc vs gsw started. And now they probably know what trash Harkless really is. I mean last season he was good and Took a step Forward, but this Season he is so dissapointed. Olshey should have trade him in the last summer when he has had good value but now could be dificult to get a good a good player back in a trade

 

[riverman]

It could be somebody is on the trade block and knows it....sort of the sense I get from Mo these days

 

[BonesJones]

Getting Mo 22' and 23' shots when he is shooting 24% from the '3' I would submit is not a good decision by Dame. Hit him cutting to the hoop. Giving the ball to a guy for a '3', even if it's wide open, when he has been bricking from out there all season is not a good shot. Perhaps some believe Dame can't make any better decisions than that. I believe he can.

Also, this is not just an 8 minute example. Quite the narrow tunnel vision of an example.

Harkless isn't open on cuts because nobody has to extend to guard him, because he can't hit a 3. How is that Dame's fault?

 

[riverman]

Harkless isn't open on cuts because nobody has to extend to guard him, because he can't hit a 3. How is that Dame's fault?

He reminds me of Wes Mathews when Wes couldn't finish a layup to save his soul or a fast break....he dunks or he defends....that's it

 

[Cippy91]

Yeah uhhhh Moe is not in a good place mentally about the game of basketball. You can't say it's just these three guys when i have seen Moe get open looks and touches, I have seen team mates try to set him up down in the post. He simply doesn't play like he did last season. Simple.