OT Musk/Twitter - The Great Experiment

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When I first came to the US I was kind of amazed at what free speech absolutists so many people were. And, as with the second amendment, so few people can give good justifications for (their interpretations) of the amendment. I certainly get the protect-political-speech argument, but now we're flooded with complete and utter lies and so many people are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality it seems like the danger has tipped the other way. People in the US seem to think that you can't have ANY censorship (or gun control) otherwise you'll instantly have Soviet-style repression. But Western Europe seems to get along just fine. Once you lose faith in institutions, however, this is what you're left with.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Which one of those other companies first committed to building cars with completely different drive trains which are 75% more efficient than the others? Which one is changing the auto manufacturing and sales process compared to others?

Oh, right... It's almost like one of these companies is not like the others...
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"Committed to"? THAT'S why Tesla is valued so highly? Lol.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Lol, she's not likeable.
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She's a fucking politician. (1) You don't know her, you just know how she's been portrayed, and (2) Name me one REMOTELY likeable Republican politician? Somehow "likeability" never seems to come up for those crusty old white fuckers.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
When I first came to the US I was kind of amazed at what free speech absolutists so many people were. And, as with the second amendment, so few people can give good justifications for (their interpretations) of the amendment. I certainly get the protect-political-speech argument, but now we're flooded with complete and utter lies and so many people are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality it seems like the danger has tipped the other way. People in the US seem to think that you can't have ANY censorship (or gun control) otherwise you'll instantly have Soviet-style repression. But Western Europe seems to get along just fine. Once you lose faith in institutions, however, this is what you're left with.
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Education is the solution. If you offer equal access to education, healthcare, and improve the social safety net you don't need to restrict people's rights.

You'll improve society far more, saving and improving far more lives by doing that than by removing rights from US citizens.

We've been destroying our education system for decades. No wonder people can't tell lies from reality.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
She's a fucking politician. (1) You don't know her, you just know how she's been portrayed, and (2) Name me one REMOTELY likeable Republican politician? Somehow "likeability" never seems to come up for those crusty old white fuckers.
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I know what I've seen of her in debates and the decisions she has made. I know I disagree with many of her decisions as attorney general. I know she flip-flopped her campaign to appease her corporate lobbyists and the DNC.

Republicans aren't even a party any longer. It's more of a cult. Anybody voting republican has their head up their ass or sees poor people as "the help", and wants the middle class to slip to that level.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I know what I've seen of her in debates and the decisions she has made. I know I disagree with many of her decisions as attorney general. I know she flip-flopped her campaign to appease her corporate lobbyists and the DNC.

Republicans aren't even a party any longer. It's more of a cult. Anybody voting republican has their head up their ass or sees poor people as "the help", and wants the middle class to slip to level.
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I don't think she did that great in the debates. She had to drop out of the race before the end. It's really cool to have the first black woman as VP. I don't dislike her, but, I thought there were better candidates for the spot.

I voted for a woman in the primary. Not her. I was really hoping for Biden to decide not to run and new primary. I would vote for Harris over Trump or DeSantis though.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
When I first came to the US I was kind of amazed at what free speech absolutists so many people were. And, as with the second amendment, so few people can give good justifications for (their interpretations) of the amendment. I certainly get the protect-political-speech argument, but now we're flooded with complete and utter lies and so many people are unable to distinguish between fantasy and reality it seems like the danger has tipped the other way. People in the US seem to think that you can't have ANY censorship (or gun control) otherwise you'll instantly have Soviet-style repression. But Western Europe seems to get along just fine. Once you lose faith in institutions, however, this is what you're left with.
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This country has NEVER had faith in government institutions. It was born out of colonists/refugees from other countries where the governments all repressed at least certain classes so that the basic intent of those folks was to place limits on government for self-serving purposes. Our "system" of federal government as a loose construct, primarily for the control of interstate commerce and military defense, left us with an oddball amalgamation of 50 states with individual takes on just about everything that only is controlled by the limits in the constitution and the ever-shifting judicial landscape of Supreme Court decisions. We're still a country of diverse cats from multiple backgrounds with differing interests that can't easily be herded in any one direction for very long. The crazy thing is that we seem to have no qualms about advocating changes through the courts or federal law that serve the interests of one group over another while demanding that nobody screw with OUR "rights".
 
Chris Craig said:
I don't think she did that great in the debates. She had to drop out of the race before the end. It's really cool to have the first black woman as VP. I don't dislike her, but, I thought there were better candidates for the spot.

I voted for a woman in the primary. Not her. I was really hoping for Biden to decide not to run and new primary. I would vote for Harris over Trump or DeSantis though.
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I would absolutely vote for Harris over Trump or DeSantis. But voting for the Harris and Bidens of the world just delays the inevitable and extends the suffering.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I know what I've seen of her in debates and the decisions she has made. I know I disagree with many of her decisions as attorney general. I know she flip-flopped her campaign to appease her corporate lobbyists and the DNC.

Republicans aren't even a party any longer. It's more of a cult. Anybody voting republican has their head up their ass or sees poor people as "the help", and wants the middle class to slip to that level.
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I'd argue that the Republicans are more of a party than the Democrats at this point. They have a pretty unified vision of what they're after and promote candidates to achieve that agenda. It's a pretty dark and inbred vision of America, IMO, which is why I no longer associate with those ass-hats. That said, the Dems are a loose amalgamation of people with varying agendas and a wide range of political ideologies that span from Bernie to Manchin. They can't even get coordinated enough to pass a climate change bill and only got a watered down infrastructure deal done despite controlling both houses and the Oval Office.
 
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Scott Galloway on Elon Musk, Twitter, and the “False Flag of Free Speech”

 
e_blazer said:
I'd argue that the Republicans are more of a party than the Democrats at this point. They have a pretty unified vision of what they're after and promote candidates to achieve that agenda. It's a pretty dark and inbred vision of America, IMO, which is why I no longer associate with those ass-hats. That said, the Dems are a loose amalgamation of people with varying agendas and a wide range of political ideologies that span from Bernie to Manchin. They can't even get coordinated enough to pass a climate change bill and only got a watered down infrastructure deal done despite controlling all 3 branches of government.
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Excellent point.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Excellent point.
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That's because the entirety of the political spectrum in 1992 is now Democrat as the Overton Window has moved so far right that only Fascists, Anarcho-Capitalist Grifters, and Religious Death Cultists remain in the Republican camp... it's hard to say "democrats controlled all three branches" when "democrats" includes everyone from 1990's style republicans to kinda maybe a little bit socialists...
 
YamTastic said:
That's because the entirety of the political spectrum in 1992 is now Democrat as the Overton Window has moved so far right that only Fascists, Anarcho-Capitalist Grifters, and Religious Death Cultists remain in the Republican camp... it's hard to say "democrats controlled all three branches" when "democrats" includes everyone from 1990's style republicans to kinda maybe a little bit socialists...
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VERY good point. Anything that isn't blatantly authoritarian/fascist is now a Democrat...
 
e_blazer said:
They can't even get coordinated enough to pass a climate change bill and only got a watered down infrastructure deal done despite controlling both houses and the Oval Office.
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Have you considered the possibility that these aren’t examples of “whoopsie daisy, we’re disorganized” but moreso proof that Democrats don’t actually give a fuck about these policies and are only pandering and passing toothless legislation to pacify their base?
 
jonnyboy said:
Have you considered the possibility that these aren’t examples of “whoopsie daisy, we’re disorganized” but moreso proof that Democrats don’t actually give a fuck about these policies and are only pandering and passing toothless legislation to pacify their base?
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Have you considered that "Democrats" are hardly a monolithic entity any more so than "Republicans" are? I would assume that there are many Democrats who care a great deal about climate change and infrastructure, a smaller group who don't give a fig, and some who are in the middle. I would also assume that there are some Republicans who care about both and a larger group who are more self-interested and self-deluded.
 
e_blazer said:
Have you considered that "Democrats" are hardly a monolithic entity any more so than "Republicans" are? I would assume that there are many Democrats who care a great deal about climate change and infrastructure, a smaller group who don't give a fig, and some who are in the middle. I would also assume that there are some Republicans who care about both and a larger group who are more self-interested and self-deluded.
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I mean, you're both correct here. A lot of legislature gets proposed that then gets whittled down, to make the proposers look good and satisfy the budget watchers who don't want to spend anything, *and* democrats seemed awfully willing to let that whittling happen *because* the party is not monolithic.

Neither party actually cares about human beings (if either did, they'd have not let our infrastructure fail so horribly); corporations have been the only true citizens in the US for 20 years or so. Whether that radicalizes you left or right is down to your own predilections. But encouraging us to play gotcha and fight each other over our political parties laterally when this is actually about a fight vertically is something both parties are highly invested in.
 
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e_blazer said:
Have you considered that "Democrats" are hardly a monolithic entity any more so than "Republicans" are? I would assume that there are many Democrats who care a great deal about climate change and infrastructure, a smaller group who don't give a fig, and some who are in the middle. I would also assume that there are some Republicans who care about both and a larger group who are more self-interested and self-deluded.
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I agree. I wasn’t giving Republicans a pass.
 
e_blazer said:
I'd argue that the Republicans are more of a party than the Democrats at this point. They have a pretty unified vision of what they're after and promote candidates to achieve that agenda. It's a pretty dark and inbred vision of America, IMO, which is why I no longer associate with those ass-hats. That said, the Dems are a loose amalgamation of people with varying agendas and a wide range of political ideologies that span from Bernie to Manchin. They can't even get coordinated enough to pass a climate change bill and only got a watered down infrastructure deal done despite controlling both houses and the Oval Office.
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Couldnt agree more.
 
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e_blazer said:
Have you considered that "Democrats" are hardly a monolithic entity any more so than "Republicans" are? I would assume that there are many Democrats who care a great deal about climate change and infrastructure, a smaller group who don't give a fig, and some who are in the middle. I would also assume that there are some Republicans who care about both and a larger group who are more self-interested and self-deluded.
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I would say the real monolithic entity is the collaboration of establishment Democrats and Republicans who engage in just enough fake fighting to ensure gridlock. As long as they can point the finger at each other, nothing will continue to get done which is precisely the point.
 
jonnyboy said:
Have you considered the possibility that these aren’t examples of “whoopsie daisy, we’re disorganized” but moreso proof that Democrats don’t actually give a fuck about these policies and are only pandering and passing toothless legislation to pacify their base?
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This is exactly why I can't stand most Democrats.

I wouldn't vote for them if Republicans weren't actual fascists intent on destroying democracy.
 
jonnyboy said:
I would say the real monolithic entity is the collaboration of establishment Democrats and Republicans who engage in just enough fake fighting to ensure gridlock. As long as they can point the finger at each other, nothing will continue to get done which is precisely the point.
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Bingo.
 
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