Religion My priest lectured us about suicide and mental health today

[Further]

What are they tossing in trash? Huh? That part baffles me.

The Jews that don't believe in that sect of Christianity don't even have to acknowledge it. Also, it's not even meant as a disdain. I don't even care if they baptize me which they might want to do since I was baptized in another sect of Christianity. Why should I care? You might even cuss me in the privacy of your own home. Why would I care?

I've never heard a Jew express any discontent with this practice.

Similarly some people have said that homosexuals marrying one another denigrates the institution of marriage. But me and my wife find that it doesn't affect us at all. Why should we care? Besides, our church accepts homosexual priests, i.e. the same church as the Bush family attends. LBJ belonged to the same church. Okay, I'm getting off track.

It’s hard for me to explain so I googled it and found the following article where slate members discuss this very topic.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ong_for_mormons_to_baptize_daniel_pearl_.html

To me it comes down to being disrespectful. These Jews spent their entire life choosing Judaism and denying Christ and many died for that belief. But after death this profoundly held belief is sort of negated and tossed aside by people who do not and have never underStood the same piety.

Does it functionally matter? No. Is it disrespectful? Yes.

I’ll take a revolting example just to make a point. If the Mormans Pissed on the graves of those Jews that too would functionally not make a difference, so what’s wrong with that? To be baptized as Christian to a Jew is akin to being pissed on even though the intent my the Morman is more noble.

 

[MarAzul]

If the Mormans Pissed on the graves of those Jews that too would functionally not make a difference, so what’s wrong with that? To be baptized as Christian to a Jew is akin to being pissed on even though the intent my the Morman is more noble.

If I remember correctly, one of the Pope's, perhaps the current one, has allowed that the Jews may get into heaven even though they do not take Christ as the son of God. His rational I think was, they have a prior covenant with God. I find that rather big of him.

But, can you relate the take the Jews get from this? Or do they even care?

 

[Lanny]

It’s hard for me to explain so I googled it and found the following article where slate members discuss this very topic.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ong_for_mormons_to_baptize_daniel_pearl_.html

To me it comes down to being disrespectful. These Jews spent their entire life choosing Judaism and denying Christ and many died for that belief. But after death this profoundly held belief is sort of negated and tossed aside by people who do not and have never underStood the same piety.

Does it functionally matter? No. Is it disrespectful? Yes.

I’ll take a revolting example just to make a point. If the Mormans Pissed on the graves of those Jews that too would functionally not make a difference, so what’s wrong with that? To be baptized as Christian to a Jew is akin to being pissed on even though the intent my the Morman is more noble.

When the grave was pissed on, it left a physical result. Also, if no one knew about the pissing then it's the same as never having happened.

The Mormons do not make public their effort to baptize in abstention. And it has no physical effect. It's not like the Nazis marching with lit torches chanting "Jews will not replace us." Now, that's an affront.

If the Mormons want to baptize me, have at it, I don't recognize it nor do I care about it.

We can go round and round on this one but it's clear that you are not going to change and I know I'm not so it's best we leave it at that.

By the way, are you going to be insulted if some Mormon someplace decides to baptize you? Or do you even care? After all, it's not like they're pissing on you or declaring hate for one of your ancestors by pissing on their grave.

I say, there are more important battles in this world.

 

[Further]

When the grave was pissed on, it left a physical result. Also, if no one knew about the pissing then it's the same as never having happened.

The Mormons do not make public their effort to baptize in abstention. And it has no physical effect. It's not like the Nazis marching with lit torches chanting "Jews will not replace us." Now, that's an affront.

If the Mormons want to baptize me, have at it, I don't recognize it nor do I care about it.

We can go round and round on this one but it's clear that you are not going to change and I know I'm not so it's best we leave it at that.

By the way, are you going to be insulted if some Mormon someplace decides to baptize you? Or do you even care? After all, it's not like they're pissing on you or declaring hate for one of your ancestors by pissing on their grave.

I say, there are more important battles in this world.

Would it bother me if they baptized me? No, it wouldn’t. Would it bother me if they baptized my great grandfather Irwin who was gassed for being a Jew, yes. When someone makes the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs, it’s rude, even in secret totoss those beliefs aside.

And how secret was it? It happened time and time again and it kept on getting “leaked”.

As far as more important battles, well that’s a bullshit argument to start with. There will always be more important battles for everything but one thing you deem most important. Why try and cure lupus when there is a bigger battle of MS, and why cure MS when resources could go towards cancer, and why cancer when there’s heart disease.

Why are you pissed at Trump, surly there are bigger battles in this world then what the Orange Fucker tweets. Screw that I can’t be bothered by Mormans pissing on my ancestors.

 

[crandc]

The Mormons are saying being a Jew is not good enough. Not holy enough. They are making that choice for people who were killed because they were Jews. Some have surviving relatives who are not consulted, who sometimes explicitly oppose the "baptism" but Mormons don't care. They are indeed pissing on the graves. I challenge you to find a single Jew, even the most secular, even downright atheists like me, who don't consider it an insult. No parallel to same sex couples marrying. In that case they couples are claiming a civil right for themselves. They are not forcing anyone else to marry a same sex partner. What the Mormons are doing would be more equivalent to a happily married straight person dying, and a church posthumously marrying the person to a same sex partner, disregarding the wishes of the widow/widower.

I wouldn't expect someone who does not believe in the existence of an omniscient deity to see value in subordinating to the logic of such. But surely you can understand how, given the base condition of faith in said deity, subordination thereto must logically follow.

Actually I do understand and that is EXACTLY my problem. Because logic, reason, even cold hard established facts go out the window in favor of subordination to a deity. So if your deity says kill infidels (whoever they happen to be), if your deity justifies slavery, well, go for it. We see this in creationism. People who gladly accept 21st century electronics, 21st century medicine, insist as Kenneth Hamm said "there is a book written 2000 years ago" (actually creation story even older) that negates everything learned in biology, geology, astronomy, archaeology, etc. Because subordination takes precedence over facts. It is now an article of faith for white American evangelicals that Trump was sent/selected by god. People have pointed out his history of serial adultery, scams, abuse, his current behavior of nonstop lies, using the presidency to enrich himself, paying off porn stars, his obvious glee in hurting the most vulnerable, the very people (children, the poor, the sick, the stranger) that Jesus allegedly said to care for and they either say no, never happened, fake news or it doesn't matter. Polls show that white evangelicals, who until about 3 years ago were the ones how cared most about a president's moral behavior, now are the ones who care least.

 

[Lanny]

The Mormons are saying being a Jew is not good enough. Not holy enough. They are making that choice for people who were killed because they were Jews. Some have surviving relatives who are not consulted, who sometimes explicitly oppose the "baptism" but Mormons don't care. They are indeed pissing on the graves. I challenge you to find a single Jew, even the most secular, even downright atheists like me, who don't consider it an insult. No parallel to same sex couples marrying. In that case they couples are claiming a civil right for themselves. They are not forcing anyone else to marry a same sex partner. What the Mormons are doing would be more equivalent to a happily married straight person dying, and a church posthumously marrying the person to a same sex partner, disregarding the wishes of the widow/widower.




Actually I do understand and that is EXACTLY my problem. Because logic, reason, even cold hard established facts go out the window in favor of subordination to a deity. So if your deity says kill infidels (whoever they happen to be), if your deity justifies slavery, well, go for it. We see this in creationism. People who gladly accept 21st century electronics, 21st century medicine, insist as Kenneth Hamm said "there is a book written 2000 years ago" (actually creation story even older) that negates everything learned in biology, geology, astronomy, archaeology, etc. Because subordination takes precedence over facts. It is now an article of faith for white American evangelicals that Trump was sent/selected by god. People have pointed out his history of serial adultery, scams, abuse, his current behavior of nonstop lies, using the presidency to enrich himself, paying off porn stars, his obvious glee in hurting the most vulnerable, the very people (children, the poor, the sick, the stranger) that Jesus allegedly said to care for and they either say no, never happened, fake news or it doesn't matter. Polls show that white evangelicals, who until about 3 years ago were the ones how cared most about a president's moral behavior, now are the ones who care least.

They're not making any choice except for themselves. Zero impact on Jews.

If they want to marry me to some man after I'm dead and cold why the hell should I care? I'm gone. Nobody's even gonna tell my wife. Zero impact.

 

[Lanny]

Would it bother me if they baptized me? No, it wouldn’t. Would it bother me if they baptized my great grandfather Irwin who was gassed for being a Jew, yes. When someone makes the ultimate sacrifice for their beliefs, it’s rude, even in secret totoss those beliefs aside.

And how secret was it? It happened time and time again and it kept on getting “leaked”.

As far as more important battles, well that’s a bullshit argument to start with. There will always be more important battles for everything but one thing you deem most important. Why try and cure lupus when there is a bigger battle of MS, and why cure MS when resources could go towards cancer, and why cancer when there’s heart disease.

Why are you pissed at Trump, surly there are bigger battles in this world then what the Orange Fucker tweets. Screw that I can’t be bothered by Mormans pissing on my ancestors.

Do you care whether Joe Schmoe cusses you in private in his own home and doesn't even tell you about it? No effect.

 

[Further]

Do you care whether Joe Schmoe cusses you in private in his own home and doesn't even tell you about it? No effect.

It’s not Joe Schmoe, it was discovered many times so it wasn’t too private, and it wasn’t cussing me out, it was trying to remove the core of what people died for.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

It’s not Joe Schmoe, it was discovered many times so it wasn’t too private, and it wasn’t cussing me out, it was trying to remove the core of what people died for.

It is disrespectful on one hand and very nice on the other.

If they believe they're saving you from hell that's very compassionate of them. It should be well known that Jewish people don't give a fuck so they shouldn't do it again.

 

[Further]

It is disrespectful on one hand and very nice on the other.

If they believe they're saving you from hell that's very compassionate of them. It should be well known that Jewish people don't give a fuck so they shouldn't do it again.

The first time, not offended. They were asked to cease, they said they would, and kept doing it. Over and over. They keep promising and then it “leaks” again. The kindness that the gesture showed the first time is lost after dozens of requests to stop.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

The first time, not offended. They were asked to cease, they said they would, and kept doing it. Over and over. They keep promising and then it “leaks” again. The kindness that the gesture showed the first time is lost after dozens of requests to stop.

I don't think they should do it and I honestly can't even imagine doing that but whaddya gonna do?

 

[Further]

I don't think they should do it and I honestly can't even imagine doing that but whaddya gonna do?

It’s not a matter of doing anything. At this point in time, they are just assholes if they are still doing this against the repeated desires of virtually all Jews. Not illegal and no recourse is (or should) be available, but I don’t really like @Lanny telling me I shouldn’t rven be annoyed. I didn’t bring the topic up, and have never spent longer than 10 minutes thinking about it whilst I read some article. Until this thread. But the more I think about it the more bothered I get.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

It’s not a matter of doing anything. At this point in time, they are just assholes if they are still doing this against the repeated desires of virtually all Jews. Not illegal and no recourse is (or should) be available, but I don’t really like @Lanny telling me I shouldn’t rven be annoyed. I didn’t bring the topic up, and have never spent longer than 10 minutes thinking about it whilst I read some article. Until this thread. But the more I think about it the more bothered I get.

I was kinda afraid to research it because it sounds ghoulish to be honest

 

[Further]

I was kinda afraid to research it because it sounds ghoulish to be honest

There’s a weird thing I don’t fully understand but a lot of Christians really want to associate themselves with Jews in an intense way they don’t do with any other group including other Christain Sects. I’ve heard some postulate that it’s because Jews are the key to the end times while others view it as we were gods first chosen people. It’s just creepy. Better than being despised like in olden times but still weird. Kind of like how many whites want everyone to know they have a black friend. We are the Black friends to Christians.

 

[riverman]

There’s a weird thing I don’t fully understand but a lot of Christians really want to associate themselves with Jews in an intense way they don’t do with any other group including other Christain Sects. I’ve heard some postulate that it’s because Jews are the key to the end times while others view it as we were gods first chosen people. It’s just creepy. Better than being despised like in olden times but still weird. Kind of like how many whites want everyone to know they have a black friend. We are the Black friends to Christians.

I understand you're bothered and respect your reasons concerning your family history and that horrible genocide ...my family history has the Orange and Green wars in Ireland...they took that shit way too seriously for a long time. Blood feuds that crossed generations. I think you ended your post with a bit of exaggeration though concerning whites wanting black friends and jews being black friends to Christians...I disagree with both statements mainly because I have not seen that as a trend or need....

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

There’s a weird thing I don’t fully understand but a lot of Christians really want to associate themselves with Jews in an intense way they don’t do with any other group including other Christain Sects. I’ve heard some postulate that it’s because Jews are the key to the end times while others view it as we were gods first chosen people. It’s just creepy. Better than being despised like in olden times but still weird. Kind of like how many whites want everyone to know they have a black friend. We are the Black friends to Christians.

I don't want any friends. Obviously

 

[Further]

I understand you're bothered and respect your reasons concerning your family history and that horrible genocide ...my family history has the Orange and Green wars in Ireland...they took that shit way too seriously for a long time. Blood feuds that crossed generations. I think you ended your post with a bit of exaggeration though concerning whites wanting black friends and jews being black friends to Christians...I disagree with both statements mainly because I have not seen that as a trend or need....

I have seen it many times. Why do you think all those right wing organizations are so freaking pro Israel? Ask any other Jew. Perhaps @crandc has an opinion on the matter.

 

[Lanny]

It’s not Joe Schmoe, it was discovered many times so it wasn’t too private, and it wasn’t cussing me out, it was trying to remove the core of what people died for.

This is so ridiculous that I'm going to drop out of this meaningless conversation.

 

[crandc]

Evangelical Christians support Jews moving to Israel and establishing Jerusalem as capital to bring on end times, when 1/3 of Jews convert, the rest die, and the rapture comes. Something along those lines.

Meanwhile the official position of the United States is that the bible justifies tearing children from their parents. Some have expressed shock and dismay. I'm not sure why. After all the same bible was used to justify the destruction of great civilizations, murder, rape, torture, genocide, burning people at the stake, Crusades, slavery, Nazi Holocaust, segregation, lynching, censorship of science and arts, subjugation of women and of course hating gays. Also cutting food aid to the poor.

 

[Further]

Evangelical Christians support Jews moving to Israel and establishing Jerusalem as capital to bring on end times, when 1/3 of Jews convert, the rest die, and the rapture comes. Something along those lines.

Meanwhile the official position of the United States is that the bible justifies tearing children from their parents. Some have expressed shock and dismay. I'm not sure why. After all the same bible was used to justify the destruction of great civilizations, murder, rape, torture, genocide, burning people at the stake, Crusades, slavery, Nazi Holocaust, segregation, lynching, censorship of science and arts, subjugation of women and of course hating gays. Also cutting food aid to the poor.

Whereas I don’t discuss all religious aspects with my fiancé, especially the peace and forgiveness she has gained regarding tragedies and crimes against her I do talk about the part I bolded.
She believes in Jesus and prays frequently but no longer belongs to any church for this reason. So many are corrupt and bending the words to justify neferious acts.

 

[Further]

This is so ridiculous that I'm going to drop out of this meaningless conversation.

It’s all good Lanny, we disagree but that’s OK. I’m just a little better than you. Kidding. We have different takes and I fully understand yours, it’s just not how I feel on a visceral level.

 

[MarAzul]

There’s a weird thing I don’t fully understand but a lot of Christians really want to associate themselves with Jews in an intense way they don’t do with any other group including other Christain Sects. I’ve heard some postulate that it’s because Jews are the key to the end times while others view it as we were gods first chosen people. It’s just creepy. Better than being despised like in olden times but still weird. Kind of like how many whites want everyone to know they have a black friend. We are the Black friends to Christians.

I understand you're bothered and respect your reasons concerning your family history and that horrible genocide ...my family history has the Orange and Green wars in Ireland...they took that shit way too seriously for a long time. Blood feuds that crossed generations. I think you ended your post with a bit of exaggeration though concerning whites wanting black friends and jews being black friends to Christians...I disagree with both statements mainly because I have not seen that as a trend or need....

I can only relate to the Orange and Green. Probably more a political division than a Religious divide. It does seem to me that the same is true of Jews and the Christians but they would never agree to this view.

The Green Orange thing is not just Ireland as the Orangemen are also from Scotland. British loyalist first and Protestant second. They are the minority in Ireland but the majority in Ulster, with even more of them in Scotland. Yes, my paternal Grandfather was one as was his father. A striking figure of a man in the only photo I have seen of him. It remains in Ulster with the family of my Grandfathers oldest son that never did immigrate to this country. The photo shows him in his Gordon plaid, with the Orange sash, all 6'8" 20 stone of him, red beard and all, with Claymore slung over his back.

When I speak with my cousins there, being a Protestant is not an issue, but not being Catholic is some what, while being British is the salient point. That is the vote they cast.

There is more of a story in how they became Orangemen, but another day. It is pretty brutal.