Myers Lenard is Not a Project

[Boob-No-More]

Don't know if I agree with all that, but I like your point about Meyers being the definition of a project. That is so ture which makes the title of this thread kind of funny.

Part I have a little problem with is a project means he may or may not develop into a quality NBA player, you kind of make it sound like a done deal. But agree with everything else.

I think he will be at least a journeyman, with the potential to be a lot better. People keep comparing him to Joel (yeah, they're both white and tall). Meyers is already better offensively than Joel, and will probably never be as good defensively. But here's the thing, Joel was the definition of a journeyman. He was never close to being an all-star, never came close to making all-defense, only finished top 10 in blocked shots once, never finished in the top 10 in rebounds, was injury prone AND didn't even become a halfway decent NBA player until his 5th season at the age of 25. Before that, he was considered an injury prone bust. Joel's first four seasons in the NBA his PER was 5.9, 10.2, 7.9 and 6.7. He wasn't a good rebounder and he wasn't a good defender. I've always been a HUGE Joel fan, but even I have to admit he pretty much sucked big time his first four seasons. I can't believe those who think so highly of Joel are ready to give up on the 21-year old Meyers Leonard after a single season. Let's give him a chance to develop and see what happens.

BNM

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Meyers can't move his feet. It's not obvious that the Blazers have a cure for this.

 

[noknobs]

He just sticks. It is really hard for me to see how, even in 3 years, he will be anything but a poor man's Joel Pryzbilla.

And that's not sayin' much.

When I watch games this season Leonard frustrates me more than just about any other player. I find so many things he does wrong, over and over and over and over, it's painful. I remember playing ball in elementary school, and a lot of the kids had better instincts on defense than he does. Sometimes I just find myself staring open-mouthed at the TV completely speechless over something he just did or didn't do.

But he's absolutely a project. Calling him a poor man's JP is a very poor comparison. He's already a better athlete, a better passer, and better shooter than Joel ever was or ever will be. Joel couldn't dunk alley-oops, he had to gather himself first. And Joel couldn't shoot 3-pointers. I think Leonard has really suffered by not having any veteran bigs on the team who actually know how to play defense. When you practice against JJ Hickson, or Freeland, or Jefferies every day, it's hard to see how anyone could improve their defensive instincts. Not impressed with our big-man coach either, if in fact we even have one.

The team warned us it might be like this and he certainly hasn't exceeded expectations this year, but I'm still far from giving up on a young, athletic 7-footer who both works hard and has some offensive skills that can't be taught to most of the 7 footers in the NBA. When I hear him talk he also seems intelligent, so I think he's capable of learning and improving on the areas he flat-out sucks at right now.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

meh, Meyers will be fine, he needs a few years. Dont you remember how we laughed at LA picking Bynum? Same story

 

[Mediocre Man]

meh, Meyers will be fine, he needs a few years. Dont you remember how we laughed at LA picking Bynum? Same story

Same story?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Same story?

yeah..in that he took a few years to develope as well

 

[PtldPlatypus]

yeah..in that he took a few years to develope as well

before reading through this whole thread, I had a similar thought as well. Comparing Leonard's rookie year to Bynum's second--they're not all that different statistically, except that Leonard is more efficient offensively, and Bynum is a significantly better shot-blocker.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

yeah..in that he took a few years to develope as well

Almost all centers do.. Some people don't like to acknowledge that though.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think you can teach defense (only to a point when guys are this far along in their development) but you can't teach toughness.

Perhaps I'm the only one who doesn't remember Tyson Chandler being hailed as a "tough guy" hard-nosed defender 12 years ago when he was drafted...

 

[PapaG]

Perhaps I'm the only one who doesn't remember Tyson Chandler being hailed as a "tough guy" hard-nosed defender 12 years ago when he was drafted...

I remember when people thought Eddy Curry was the better center.

I also have to laugh at those who are posting that the team needs a Howard or Chandler-type defender in the paint. Well no shit, every team in the league could use a Defensive Player of the Year who owns the paint. Expecting a rookie who didn't grow up in the paint to be that guy right now is simply ridiculous and reactionary. Which is pretty much this board always, so I'm fine with that reaction.

 

[Stevenson]

I have watched Myers play live several times and on TV many more. I am just totally unimpressed. Opposing offenses just drive the lane again and again and get to the rack unimpeded when he is out there. Sure he seems like a sweet kid, but he also seems to have zero basketball IQ. When I compared him to Pryzbillla what I meant was that, at best, he's a big stiff with no offensive game. Hid defense is laughable. A project has to have a glimmer of hope. I just don't see it.

All of that said, the best analogy I have seen in this thread was Travis Outlaw. I hope that is the case.

 

[PapaG]

I have watched Myers play live several times and on TV many more. I am just totally unimpressed. Opposing offenses just drive the lane again and again and get to the rack unimpeded when he is out there. Sure he seems like a sweet kid, but he also seems to have zero basketball IQ. When I compared him to Pryzbillla what I meant was that, at best, he's a big stiff with no offensive game. Hid defense is laughable. A project has to have a glimmer of hope. I just don't see it.

All of that said, the best analogy I have seen in this thread was Travis Outlaw. I hope that is the case.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Myrs Lynyrd may look lost on defense, and is lost quite often, but calling him a 'stiff' is laughable. He runs the floor and dunks, he dunks off of alley oops, and he actually has a decent offensive game from the mid-range.

If anything, he thinks too much on defense instead of just using his athleticism and reacting. That's what I see. An experienced post defender who doesn't have the muscle memory yet to let his extremely athletic self be athletic on defense.

 

[MickZagger]

In 4 or 5 years he'll be an AS in the west. I loved the pick before we even made it and I love it even more now.

 

[Mediocre Man]

I think Meyers looks like he will develop fine, but not into a player we need

 

[tlongII]

Meyers is fine. As others have said he just needs time. He's only 21 and his body is still developing. He has a nice shooting touch, he can shoot free throws, he runs the floor, and he has good athleticism. His problems are defensive positioning, footwork, lower body strength, and court awareness. All of these issues are fixable.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Meyers is fine. As others have said he just needs time. He's only 21 and his body is still developing. He has a nice shooting touch, he can shoot free throws, he runs the floor, and he has good athleticism. His problems are defensive positioning, footwork, lower body strength, and court awareness. All of these issues are fixable.

Court awareness is fixable?

You can't teach defensive instincts.

 

[julius]

Court awareness is fixable?

You can't teach defensive instincts.

yeah, but you can teach defense. otherwise, players would never improve on defense.

 

[Mediocre Man]

yeah, but you can teach defense. otherwise, players would never improve on defense.

You can teach defensive principles, but you can't teach a desire to play defense. Look at JJ Hickson, for example. I'm not saying Meyers won't improve, but he probably won't ever be a "good defender"

 

[mook]

You can teach defensive principles, but you can't teach a desire to play defense. Look at JJ Hickson, for example. I'm not saying Meyers won't improve, but he probably won't ever be a "good defender"

You think he doesn't have a desire to defend? Because I don't really see that. Apathetic big men defenders don't average over 5 fouls per 36 minutes. Look at the stats for guys like Abdur-Rahim or Z-bo, and you see very little in the way of fouling. It's a lot easier to just get out of the way, let them score, and try to impress the coach with a flashy score on the other end.

He has the desire, IMO. He likes hitting people. He likes blocking shots. He seemed perfectly fine with banging with Howard the other night. He just absolutely sucks at it.

He's completely incompetent as a defender, and I think he knows it and hates it. Look at the way he hangs his head after every foul or blown assignment. Look at the way he's always talking to the coach. He doesn't look indifferent--he looks like an idiot, true, but not an indifferent idiot.

He has none of the body language of a Zach Randolph or Damon Stoudamire. Those guys just shrugged when they got routinely abused and told themselves it didn't matter because they were too special for that shit to matter. Leonard exudes none of that.

 

[mook]

I'd also add that I'm going to be glad to see Hickson gone. He's a lousy role model for Leonard (and, sadly, Aldridge, who also is kind of a follower). Hickson is definitely an indifferent defender in the Stoudamire/Randolph mold. He gets his headlines and his big minutes for his gaudy rebounding and his high percentage scoring, and it sets a tone on the team that I really don't like.

You can point to his being an undersized center, but he's a great athlete and even when put up against other power forwards he still sucks.

Leonard is a lousy defender because he just doesn't know how. Hickson is a shitty defender because he just doesn't care. Hickson wants to cash in on a big contract by putting up great rebounding stats. Dude will never be a starter on a second round team.

 

[Boise Blazer]

i'd have to say that I agree with thought of others in here that says you can see that he has the desire to get better and hopefully the work ethic. I believe that his athleticism alone can make him an average defender.

 

[TripTango]

All y'all haters are crazy. Writing him off at this point is like declaring the season over after five games. Oh wait -- we have people who do that too...

 

[blazerboy30]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Myrs Lynyrd may look lost on defense, and is lost quite often, but calling him a 'stiff' is laughable. He runs the floor and dunks, he dunks off of alley oops, and he actually has a decent offensive game from the mid-range.

If anything, he thinks too much on defense instead of just using his athleticism and reacting. That's what I see. An experienced post defender who doesn't have the muscle memory yet to let his extremely athletic self be athletic on defense.

This.

I completely understand posters saying he looks lost, especially on the defensive end and that he may or may not have the necessary instincts to become a top defensive center.

But to call him a "big stiff with no offensive game" and comparing him to Joel is just completely ridiculous. This is basically the opposite of where Meyers is currently.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Myrs Lynyrd is exactly the inverse of Joel: soft touch offensively, no defensive presence.

That's cool and fine; even Joel learned to dunk well.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Court awareness is fixable?

You can't teach defensive instincts.

You can't teach instinct, but you can teach court awareness. They aren't the same thing. You can teach defensive positioning and rotations. Right now Meyers looks lost because he has no idea where he's supposed to be on the court on defense. Coaching and experience can help him learn where he needs to be. Assuming, as you say, he lacks instincts, he may never be a great shot blocker, but there is more to defense than blocking shots. Theo Ratliffe was a great shot blocker, but a very poor man-to-man defender. And, I already pointed out JaVale McGee blocks a ton of shots, but his instincts work against him and actually make him a horrible defender and defensive rebounder.

I'll probably get killed for this comparison, but I think Meyers has the POTENTIAL to be a Sheed-like defender. Of course, Sheed was a more polished, more experienced player when he came into the league, but early in his career, he was much more advanced offensively than defensively. Like Meyers, he had great length and athleticism, but he was never much of a shot blocker, and was a poor rebounder for his size. He didn't really become known as a good defender until later in his career - and again, it wasn't about shot blocking, it was about good positioning. I remember how hard Sheed used to make Tim Duncan work to get his points. He was constantly keeping Duncan from getting deep post position and forcing him outside of his comfort zone. If Meyers can just do that, get stronger, take up space and keep his opponent from establishing deep post position, it would go a long way toward making him a decent defender. Those things can be taught and the added strength will come as he grows into his body. He already works hard in the weight room and has the frame to easily support another 15 pounds of muscle.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

He will be the lopsided trade asset. Watch

 

[3RA1N1AC]

meyers leonard has played more than 20 minutes in 20 games this season

his stats in those games

9.7 ppg
6 rpg
1 apg
.65 bpg

on
59% fg shooting (81/138)
76% ft shooting

in 27.4 mpg

here are the 6 players putting up those numbers this year (9.7/6/1/27.4 mpg)

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

heres a list of centers getting 8/4/1 in 20 mpg or more

http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg_pct

hes not good yet, i agree, but to write him off is foolish imo

 

[3RA1N1AC]

oh. he just turned 21.

 

[Mediocre Man]

meyers leonard has played more than 20 minutes in 20 games this season

his stats in those games

9.7 ppg
6 rpg
1 apg
.65 bpg

on
59% fg shooting (81/138)
76% ft shooting

in 27.4 mpg

here are the 6 players putting up those numbers this year (9.7/6/1/27.4 mpg)

http://www.basketball-reference.com...comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws_per_48

heres a list of centers getting 8/4/1 in 20 mpg or more

http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=fg_pct

hes not good yet, i agree, but to write him off is foolish imo

No one scouts him, no one doubles him

I haven't, but look at Kwame Brown's rookie numbers when playing 20+ minutes. I bet they are similar. or Eddy Curry or Joe freaking Klein or Chris Mihm

 

[PapaG]

No one scouts him, no one doubles him

I haven't, but look at Kwame Brown's rookie numbers when playing 20+ minutes. I bet they are similar. or Eddy Curry or Joe freaking Klein or Chris Mihm

What does that have to do with anything?

Plus, Kwame's Brown's career PER is lower than Myrs', and was lower his rookie season, and only Eddy Curry's was higher. Curry then got a near-max contract after his rookie deal.

The amazing thing is that of Brown/Mihm/Curry/Lynyrd, only Myrs has a net positive in Ortg/Drtg as a rookie.

Brown -9
Curry -4
Mihm -8
Lynyrd +6

I'm not sure what happens on this board at times, but really, it does get a bit embarrassing when the same people are shown the same stats over and over, yet they continue to ignore them, and even double-down on their clearly biased opinion.