Najera getting offer tonight

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jul 10 2008, 06:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Josh_Boone @ Jul 10 2008, 06:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>LOL at saying Don Nelson and Frank in the same sentence.

I dont see Najera being a 4 i dont. I see him as a 3 here and i would take Boki over him, but thats just what i think.

I dont want to see Najera take time away from Our Young players.</div>

I didn't say it was a good impression. This is the same Frank who had Sean man the 3, started Hassan, and beat the Kidd/Marcus back court to death. I know alot of us give him a hard time but he does at least try different lineups and giving him consistent weapons to choose from will only help cover up the fact that having too many options is his Achilles heel as a coach.

While Najera may cut into some of the young guys PT he will be an example to point to and one hell of a practice partner that willl advance these kids faster than they would without him. We only see a small fraction of the work in the 48 minutes they're on the court. If the young kids work their butts off they'll play but with such a young roster we need backups and Najera is actually a guy who doesn't mind coming off the bench and knows his role. While you may not agree Najera is the right guy for us you have to agree that's the type of additions we need.
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I agree entirely with this post. But I go back to my point. Does it make sense to add this kind of player while you already have Hassell on the roster for two more years at $4M per and now Simmons also? Hassell is more of a 3/2 than a 4/3, but there is overlap with Najera in position, strengths, and weaknesses.

I won't prejudge until I see what else is coming. But signing Najera absolutely necessitates moving one of the young bigs (and I hope it means a firm "no" to resigning Boki). You can't have all of Lopez, Yi, Boone, Swat, Anderson, and Krstic vying for time at the 4 and 5 (even though Anderson could also play the 3) while also having Najera stealing at least some minutes at the 4 and Swift undoubtedly sulking his way to some minutes as well. At least 2 of that bunch have to go.

Based on CBA rules and the fact that teams don't hold big news conferences for players and then trade them away within a matter of weeks, it's safe to say that Lopez, Yi, Anderson, and Najera (if he's signed) are here for quite a while. If we assume that Swift is one of the two that will be moved, that means one of Boone, Swat, and Krstic are gone.

The logical one to go, given the duplication in skillsets of the new players, is Krstic. But somehow I really hate seeing him leave. He was on course to become a solid, home-grown center/PF. But I can't see why he would possibly want to stay here if he's going to have to fight 5-6 guys for playing time when he's still trying to return to form from a devastating injury. If he signs short term or takes the QO, this is his last chance to earn a big contract, and he can't do it from the bench.
 
Theres no reason to be down on this signing. Najera is a solid player to add to any team in the NBA. He plays good Defense, hustles for looseballs and can even shoot the 3 every now and then. Hes a career 20mpg 5ppg 5rpb player and im sure Thorn/Kiki will not offer him a lucrative deal. Im sure it will probably be a fair 3year $12million probably frontloaded. Also remember hes one of the most marketable NBA players.

I have no problem with this signing if it happens, mostly because he will come way cheaper than Nocioni

In THORN I Trust!
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 10 2008, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I agree entirely with this post. But I go back to my point. Does it make sense to add this kind of player while you already have Hassell on the roster for two more years at $4M per and now Simmons also? Hassell is more of a 3/2 than a 4/3, but there is overlap with Najera in position, strengths, and weaknesses.

I won't prejudge until I see what else is coming. But signing Najera absolutely necessitates moving one of the young bigs (and I hope it means a firm "no" to resigning Boki). You can't have all of Lopez, Yi, Boone, Swat, Anderson, and Krstic vying for time at the 4 and 5 (even though Anderson could also play the 3) while also having Najera stealing at least some minutes at the 4 and Swift undoubtedly sulking his way to some minutes as well. At least 2 of that bunch have to go.

Based on CBA rules and the fact that teams don't hold big news conferences for players and then trade them away within a matter of weeks, it's safe to say that Lopez, Yi, Anderson, and Najera (if he's signed) are here for quite a while. If we assume that Swift is one of the two that will be moved, that means one of Boone, Swat, and Krstic are gone.

The logical one to go, given the duplication in skillsets of the new players, is Krstic. But somehow I really hate seeing him leave. He was on course to become a solid, home-grown center/PF. But I can't see why he would possibly want to stay here if he's going to have to fight 5-6 guys for playing time when he's still trying to return to form from a devastating injury. If he signs short term or takes the QO, this is his last chance to earn a big contract, and he can't do it from the bench.</div>

You're right, the tough part is that we're looking at an unfinished product. Najera hasn't signed yet, maybe this is one big ploy to push the Bulls into a deal for Nocioni or Gordon? Who knows what they have up their sleeves but they're hinting at something and Eduardo is in on it.

I firmly believe Nenad and Boki are gone one way or another as Kiki is helping Rod cut the binding ties he has to certain players. While I agree it kinda stinks to see Nenad go we have not gotten to see the potential in our new jump shooting bigs who could very well eclipse Nenad by the time 2010 rolls around and a guy like Najera will only help make that happen.

Hassell and Swift are non factors when it comes to what we're building as they are currently our 14th and 15th men. Swift is trade fodder and Trenton is a consummate pro who will show up and bust his tail and we will thank for his patience when we release or trade him in a year.

Even though everyone assumes Boone is the one to go, I am personally a little worried that Sean could be the trade bait that helps us unload some bad contracts (like Hassell's) and gets us a nice player or two in return.
 
props to Reganomics, the Najara interest might be to help shake Boki loose for a s&t, but either way I feel less suicidal about him on our roster.

I was just hoping for maybe Artest or Pietrus this free agency, but Najara is a nice basketball player anyway, I just think he's not mobile enough to

compliment the now glut of bigs we have. Is Artest still available?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jul 10 2008, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hassell and Swift are non factors when it comes to what we're building as they are currently our 14th and 15th men. Swift is trade fodder and Trenton is a consummate pro who will show up and bust his tail and we will thank for his patience when we release or trade him in a year.</div>

Agreed on Swift, but one of the reasons I don't want too many guys like Hassell and Najera around is that Frank is prone to giving such players significant minutes. With so many rookies and 2nd year players, I just fear seeing a lineup at times like Harris, Carter, Hassell/Simmons, Najera, and Boone because Frank feels "the moment is too big" for one of the youngsters (he did this last year with Sean to end the Hornets game, and it almost certainly cost us a victory). That kind of lineup will not be pretty.

It's not that I feel Frank won't play the kids at all. He will and he has. But I still think he's too affected by the notion of a kid having to "pay dues" on the bench before sniffing the floor, regardless of the player's work ethic or tangibles or the talent inferiority of the veterans in front of him (look how long it took Boone and Swat to get meaningful minutes, even when the team was STARVING for any kind of athleticism and quickness in the frontcourt.).

The situation should be different this year with such a young roster and (one would hope) less pressure in Frank's own mind to "win now" at all costs. I'd still prefer not to give him too many veteran players that are commendable for their hustle and work ethic and for playing within their (considerable) limitations but who lack bigtime skills.

Speaking of the roster, there are 14 on it right now if we include Krstic and exclude Boki (and Armstrong). They HAVE to add at least one more PG to the roster, and if they sign Najera that's not possible. So there's definitely more coming, even if it's to ultimately buyout/waive Swift or Ager.
 
This would have been a great singing if we were going for a title but I don't see the point to it now.

I rather give playing time to Ryan Anderson and CDR, even if they do suck.
 
If this happens, it's clear...
We have a new identity:

Nations of
Earth
Talent
Squad

Maybe Thorn and Kiki are going to convince Eddie Nachos that he's gonna kill even more in endorsements in the NY Metropolitan area and doubly with the new global mission Nets. So, he takes a sickly low salaried 3 or 4 year contract that is ALSO front loaded. Checkmate KikiThorn Enterprises.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 10 2008, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jul 10 2008, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hassell and Swift are non factors when it comes to what we're building as they are currently our 14th and 15th men. Swift is trade fodder and Trenton is a consummate pro who will show up and bust his tail and we will thank for his patience when we release or trade him in a year.</div>

Agreed on Swift, but one of the reasons I don't want too many guys like Hassell and Najera around is that Frank is prone to giving such players significant minutes. With so many rookies and 2nd year players, I just fear seeing a lineup at times like Harris, Carter, Hassell/Simmons, Najera, and Boone because Frank feels "the moment is too big" for one of the youngsters (he did this last year with Sean to end the Hornets game, and it almost certainly cost us a victory). That kind of lineup will not be pretty.

It's not that I feel Frank won't play the kids at all. He will and he has. But I still think he's too affected by the notion of a kid having to "pay dues" on the bench before sniffing the floor, regardless of the player's work ethic or tangibles or the talent inferiority of the veterans in front of him (look how long it took Boone and Swat to get meaningful minutes, even when the team was STARVING for any kind of athleticism and quickness in the frontcourt.).

The situation should be different this year with such a young roster and (one would hope) less pressure in Frank's own mind to "win now" at all costs. I'd still prefer not to give him too many veteran players that are commendable for their hustle and work ethic and for playing within their (considerable) limitations but who lack bigtime skills.

Speaking of the roster, there are 14 on it right now if we include Krstic and exclude Boki (and Armstrong). They HAVE to add at least one more PG to the roster, and if they sign Najera that's not possible. So there's definitely more coming, even if it's to ultimately buyout/waive Swift or Ager.
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I agree that Najera is a very Frank type of player and could be over used, no question about that. Hassell on the other hand was given a test run last year and it ended in mixed results as it was mainly out of necessity. Rod has already mentioned that Yi is going to see more time for us than he did in Milwaukee and CDR is earning his showing his worth already and has VC already in his ear. While it's not out of the question that we could very well see the lineup you proposed I have a feeling it will be an exception rather than the default go to group it was in past seasons. Frank is slowly changing his ways, just the acceptance of pushing Collins down on the depth chart at the expense of the young kids was a sign of that while he will still have his typical Frank reactions that he's trying to adapt just as much as anybody on the court.
 
So I guess the Nets just need to get Mutumbo, Bogut, Luol Deng, Dirk, Ginobili, Steve Nash, Boris Diaw, Barbosa.

C: Bogut, Mutumbo
PF: Dirk , Yi
SF: Deng , Boris Diaw
SG: Vince Carter, Manu Ginobli
PG: Nash , Barbosa
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jul 10 2008, 08:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (FOMW @ Jul 10 2008, 07:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (reganomics813 @ Jul 10 2008, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Hassell and Swift are non factors when it comes to what we're building as they are currently our 14th and 15th men. Swift is trade fodder and Trenton is a consummate pro who will show up and bust his tail and we will thank for his patience when we release or trade him in a year.</div>

Agreed on Swift, but one of the reasons I don't want too many guys like Hassell and Najera around is that Frank is prone to giving such players significant minutes. With so many rookies and 2nd year players, I just fear seeing a lineup at times like Harris, Carter, Hassell/Simmons, Najera, and Boone because Frank feels "the moment is too big" for one of the youngsters (he did this last year with Sean to end the Hornets game, and it almost certainly cost us a victory). That kind of lineup will not be pretty.

It's not that I feel Frank won't play the kids at all. He will and he has. But I still think he's too affected by the notion of a kid having to "pay dues" on the bench before sniffing the floor, regardless of the player's work ethic or tangibles or the talent inferiority of the veterans in front of him (look how long it took Boone and Swat to get meaningful minutes, even when the team was STARVING for any kind of athleticism and quickness in the frontcourt.).

The situation should be different this year with such a young roster and (one would hope) less pressure in Frank's own mind to "win now" at all costs. I'd still prefer not to give him too many veteran players that are commendable for their hustle and work ethic and for playing within their (considerable) limitations but who lack bigtime skills.

Speaking of the roster, there are 14 on it right now if we include Krstic and exclude Boki (and Armstrong). They HAVE to add at least one more PG to the roster, and if they sign Najera that's not possible. So there's definitely more coming, even if it's to ultimately buyout/waive Swift or Ager.
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I agree that Najera is a very Frank type of player and could be over used, no question about that. Hassell on the other hand was given a test run last year and it ended in mixed results as it was mainly out of necessity. Rod has already mentioned that Yi is going to see more time for us than he did in Milwaukee and CDR is earning his showing his worth already and has VC already in his ear. While it's not out of the question that we could very well see the lineup you proposed I have a feeling it will be an exception rather than the default go to group it was in past seasons. Frank is slowly changing his ways, just the acceptance of pushing Collins down on the depth chart at the expense of the young kids was a sign of that while he will still have his typical Frank reactions that he's trying to adapt just as much as anybody on the court.
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frank tried EVERYTHING last year and nothing worked, primarily because two of the three players he couldn't remove from the lineup were selfish prigs. He has also played rookies and young players in the past, but his policy is that they have to show that they belong in the lineup to stay there, and none of them have done that (except for Boone). Someone mentioned that Boone did not play much as a rookie; remember that he had surgery in the offseason and missed his first training camp. Also, in the past, the Nets have signed all those middling veterans hoping that they'd be the "last link" to a contending team--there is no such constraint now.

It's clear that the Nets are building an identity; that identity will revolve around defense and outside shooting; and that if you can't play defense you won't play. It's no accident that Sean has been going around talking about playing defense like it is a mantra. It's no accident that RJ is gone, that Marcus is being shopped, and that (despite what they say publicly) Boki and Nenad won't be back. They are the defensive weak links.

Now, if they can just get the Clippers to take Swift away . . .
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jul 10 2008, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This would have been a great singing if we were going for a title but I don't see the point to it now.

I rather give playing time to Ryan Anderson and CDR, even if they do suck.</div>

I agree.

Something about Frank I dislike: instead of allowing young players to grow and get better by giving them more minutes, he throws minutes at veterans he trusts, regardless of how good or bad they play.
 
Harris/Marcus
Carter/CDR/Ager
Simmons/Najera/Hassell
Boone/Yi/Sean/Anderson/Swift
Krstic(?)/Lopez

Eh?

Wonder how they are going to clear up the logjam in the frontcourt. They better not lose Krstic for nothing. They better use Swift and his expiring contract in a trade. Hope they can trade Hassell. Hope they can trade Simmons and get a better starting SF. One of Sean or Boone looks like will have to be traded. Would prefer they go after Dooling instead of Najera in free agency.

What are they going to do?
 
The Nets are putting an emphasis on hard working, unselfish players. Quite a change from the past couple years, but something I am glad they are doing.

Signing Najera would be consistent with other moves.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (pegs @ Jul 10 2008, 09:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jul 10 2008, 09:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This would have been a great singing if we were going for a title but I don't see the point to it now.

I rather give playing time to Ryan Anderson and CDR, even if they do suck.</div>

I agree.

Something about Frank I dislike: instead of allowing young players to grow and get better by giving them more minutes, he throws minutes at veterans he trusts, regardless of how good or bad they play.
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He did that when Jason Kidd was on the team and they were trying to get a high playoff seed.

He has not done that at all when the team has been less competitive. In fact he's shifted the focus 180 degrees to developing players.

I think his preference is to train the players from day one and use his own guys, but this is really the first opportunity he's been given to do that.
 
ya i have hope in frank that he will play the youngins
 
Well Frank isn't signing Najera. I'm worried that he'll take minutes from a young guy too, but I'm more pissed at our FO for loading us up like this.
 
So does signing Hayes mean no Najera..?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jul 10 2008, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This would have been a great singing if we were going for a title but I don't see the point to it now.

I rather give playing time to Ryan Anderson and CDR, even if they do suck.</div>

This is exactly the way I feel.

Reg, I completely understand how signing Najera is a quality addition to the team in terms of adding the "right" kind of personality to a team, but personally I'd rather give Najera's playing time to CDR and Anderson. It's not like our rookies are boneheads/trouble makers. Najera is a good leader type to have in the locker room, but Anderson and CDR (and I guess Brook) aren't misfits... Vince, Harris, and Frank should be good enough to keep them on track.
 
i want to see the youngins play too, and i'm excited that the new 3 are playing so well in the summer league, but its against competition that they are used to . The simple fact is that all 3 are rookies and there is a great chance that they could hit the rookie wall like both williams did, Yi did, and wright did.

Najera is more like a very good insurance policy against that happening. He is a proven pro who will give you 20 minutes off the bench at either forward position and will do all the little things that the rookies don't have a clue how to do yet. He is a team player and a banger, yes i said banger. How many bangers do the nets really have?

Defense wins in this league and you can never have enough defense.

get Najera!

oh yeah, go nets!!!
 
Well, i was pretty meh on Najera until reading this thread, now I'm jazzed.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jul 10 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Frank isn't signing Najera. I'm worried that he'll take minutes from a young guy too, but I'm more pissed at our FO for loading us up like this.</div>

I swear the Nets front office better have a plan in place to sort out the excess of front court players.

The Jefferson trade is starting to annoy me more now. Do the Nets really need Yi when they have Anderson and Lopez? Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until after the draft to trade Jefferson so you know what holes needed to be filled?

Now they have Yi, Anderson, Lopez, Boone, Sean, Krstic(?)... Swift

Anderson and Krstic can do some of the things Yi can.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Jul 11 2008, 05:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jul 10 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Frank isn't signing Najera. I'm worried that he'll take minutes from a young guy too, but I'm more pissed at our FO for loading us up like this.</div>

I swear the Nets front office better have a plan in place to sort out the excess of front court players.

The Jefferson trade is starting to annoy me more now. Do the Nets really need Yi when they have Anderson and Lopez? Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until after the draft to trade Jefferson so you know what holes needed to be filled?

Now they have Yi, Anderson, Lopez, Boone, Sean, Krstic(?)... Swift

Anderson and Krstic can do some of the things Yi can.
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I'm starting to feel the same way. I loved the Jefferson trade at the time, but the way things are starting to shake out (with the draft, Najera, and Hayes), it looks like they could have had a very competitive team without trading Jefferson.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Jul 11 2008, 04:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I swear the Nets front office better have a plan in place to sort out the excess of front court players.

The Jefferson trade is starting to annoy me more now. Do the Nets really need Yi when they have Anderson and Lopez? Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until after the draft to trade Jefferson so you know what holes needed to be filled?

Now they have Yi, Anderson, Lopez, Boone, Sean, Krstic(?)... Swift

Anderson and Krstic can do some of the things Yi can.</div>

We're building assets. Yi is a huge asset with his box office draw and potential and Simmons can help fill some of the void left by RJ. We essentially slightly downgraded the player at Jefferson's position and added an agile big man who has loads of potential. Now we're admittedly stocked at the big man department but we're not really looking at any with real experience, especially if Nenad is signed and traded, and that's where a guy like Najera comes in. He's the guy who provides mismatches in practice and gets our bigs used to guarding active smaller players with range and that alone will boost their defense.

Boone, Sean, KVH, and Stro all have benefits to teams looking to swing a deal while Nenad can get us something in a sign and trade.We went from having nothing other teams wanted to a whole lot of options and scenarios. Anderson and Lopez haven't proved they are assets yet but their additions have opened up the availability of the bigs we depended on last season in search of an upgrade at another position.

This is not an overnight process, just keep in mind every player we have added has an upside, be it potential talent or a smaller/easier to move deal, in relation to the players we moved to get them.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rory @ Jul 11 2008, 08:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NOMAM @ Jul 11 2008, 05:05 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Jul 10 2008, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Well Frank isn't signing Najera. I'm worried that he'll take minutes from a young guy too, but I'm more pissed at our FO for loading us up like this.</div>

I swear the Nets front office better have a plan in place to sort out the excess of front court players.

The Jefferson trade is starting to annoy me more now. Do the Nets really need Yi when they have Anderson and Lopez? Wouldn't it have made more sense to wait until after the draft to trade Jefferson so you know what holes needed to be filled?

Now they have Yi, Anderson, Lopez, Boone, Sean, Krstic(?)... Swift

Anderson and Krstic can do some of the things Yi can.
</div>

I'm starting to feel the same way. I loved the Jefferson trade at the time, but the way things are starting to shake out (with the draft, Najera, and Hayes), it looks like they could have had a very competitive team without trading Jefferson.
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Najera and Hayes are role players. Rookies haven't played a single NBA game yet. To look at this trade objectively, we would have to wait till the end of the season and see how many more wins RJ gives to the Bucks.

Rookies doing well in summer league, Yi is also doing well playing scrubs overseas.

What I'm trying to say, it's too early to tell. However, Nets with the new rookies and FA signing + Richard Jefferson are NOT championship contenders.
 
enough about RJ and company. He was a nice player and the nets had their run back in the day, but over the past few years RJ and Kidd, combined with VC provided nothing but average play, with an average record, with a below average defense. Remember when the nets were good? Defense, and defense, and more defense that led to fast breaks.

The RJ era is over! The kidd era is over! Time to move on and rebuild, and boy do i like the way thorn is doing it. Hayes could be a nice bench player being the 9 or 10 th man off the bench. Thats it. If the nets get najera he will be like the 7th man off the bench.

the nets will be deep and talented, which helps when large quantities of injuries occur during a long 82 game season, or possibily a rookie wall that could include 3 promising prospects. The nets are simply getting prepared for all situtations
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Jul 11 2008, 01:48 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jul 10 2008, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>This would have been a great singing if we were going for a title but I don't see the point to it now.

I rather give playing time to Ryan Anderson and CDR, even if they do suck.</div>

This is exactly the way I feel.

Reg, I completely understand how signing Najera is a quality addition to the team in terms of adding the "right" kind of personality to a team, but personally I'd rather give Najera's playing time to CDR and Anderson. It's not like our rookies are boneheads/trouble makers. Najera is a good leader type to have in the locker room, but Anderson and CDR (and I guess Brook) aren't misfits... Vince, Harris, and Frank should be good enough to keep them on track.
</div>

If that's what ends up happening yer not going to hear me complaining one bit, i'm simply trying to play devil's advocate and explain why he could be good for us and why Rod and Kiki are meeting with him when we do have that kind of a glut at his position. I'd be all for giving the rookies a bunch of burn but at the same time I also like the benefits of having a guy like Eduardo, whatever happens we'll be in good shape.
 
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