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wizenheimer said:
his career assist rate is 14.4%; and his turnover rate is 14.2%. Last season, his assist rate was 16%. None of that is very good. I like Winslow as a rotation backup. I'd not like him at all as a starter because it would be just perpetuating the ineffective string of low-tier forwards like Aminu-Harkelss-Layman-Turner-Hezonja-Hood-Tolliver-Melo-RoCo-Powell that were primary in locking the Blazers on the treadmill
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I agree, but can you give me the name of a PF that would meet all your requirements as a starter?
 
Hoopguru said:
I agree, but can you give me the name of a PF that would meet all your requirements as a starter?
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"all my requirements"?....I don't have an all or nothing list. The mention of Winslow derived from a discussion about running Dame more off the ball, and if the Blazers want to do more of that I believe they need a starting forward who is a good initiator.

Blazers have already gone down the road of getting a better passing forward who was a shitty shooter with below average skills....Evan Turner. Then, Olshey tried to cheap-screw the idea with Hezonja. They were both terrible ideas
 
wizenheimer said:
"all my requirements"?....I don't have an all or nothing list. The mention of Winslow derived from a discussion about running Dame more off the ball, and if the Blazers want to do more of that I believe they need a starting forward who is a good initiator.

Blazers have already gone down the road of getting a better passing forward who was a shitty shooter with below average skills....Evan Turner. Then, Olshey tried to cheap-screw the idea with Hezonja. They were both terrible ideas
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lol....should have used green font.
For me, I want a PF thats at least 6'9" that can score inside out, play some decent D and board. I dont want a 6'6/7" guy playing the 4 that doesnt post up/block out/board and block shots put strictly is a stretch shooter.
 
wizenheimer said:
"all my requirements"?....I don't have an all or nothing list. The mention of Winslow derived from a discussion about running Dame more off the ball, and if the Blazers want to do more of that I believe they need a starting forward who is a good initiator.

Blazers have already gone down the road of getting a better passing forward who was a shitty shooter with below average skills....Evan Turner. Then, Olshey tried to cheap-screw the idea with Hezonja. They were both terrible ideas
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I like a Jaylen Smith as a target. But he could also end up very mediocre.
 
wizenheimer said:
his career assist rate is 14.4%; and his turnover rate is 14.2%. Last season, his assist rate was 16%. None of that is very good. I like Winslow as a rotation backup. I'd not like him at all as a starter because it would be just perpetuating the ineffective string of low-tier forwards like Aminu-Harkelss-Layman-Turner-Hezonja-Hood-Tolliver-Melo-RoCo-Powell that were primary in locking the Blazers on the treadmill
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Don't care what your stats say, he would be one of the best passing PFs who can actually put the ball on the floor that we have had in a while. Certainly better than anyone on your list above.

I agree he should not be a starter. But he and Nurk sure built a quick chemistry together.
But yes his injuries are a concern, although I don't really think he was ever hurt last year.

I love his defensive toughness. And because he can handle the ball, and Terry is not the coach, I see no reason why he needs to stand in the corner and shoot 3s. He can attack the basket and pass.
 
Had a nice brunch today at one of my favorite places here and, again, I will be shocked if Grant is not a Blazer next year and we will most likely overpay to get him because it’s important to a certain player
 
Mediocre Man said:
Had a nice brunch today at one of my favorite places here and, again, I will be shocked if Grant is not a Blazer next year and we will most likely overpay to get him because it’s important to a certain player
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if that's true, then it's about 25% on Dame and 75% on management/ownership

I guess it's yet another reason to desperately hope that Portland moves into the top-4. And then hope the Blazers would NOT be stupid enough to trade a 3rd pick on Grant
 
Mediocre Man said:
Had a nice brunch today at one of my favorite places here and, again, I will be shocked if Grant is not a Blazer next year and we will most likely overpay to get him because it’s important to a certain player
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I know this is rather pointless until Tuesday but would the 25th pick in this year's draft, the Bucks 2025 first and let's just say the Piston's 2025 second be an overpay? I would say yes but I also think there are going to be players at 9 who you could pair with Grant to be the best forward combo that Dame has played with outside of Nic and LA. That would be us staying at 6 (improbable) and then trading 6 to a Spurs team that doesn't want three guaranteed rookies, for 9 and 25.

Would doing what it takes to get rid of the conditions on our pick next year with Chicago (money and/or our #57 pick in this draft) so we could trade our 2025 and 2027 first along with the Bucks 2025 first be an overpay? Then we use whatever pick we land and pair that player with Grant.

Yeah those probably would be overpays for a guy that we would then have to turnaround and overpay Grant on an extension to ensure that he's not a rental for that much draft capital but the result might be an instant contender if we get lucky with that draft pick (the lotto position won't matter as much as just the luck it takes to get an impact guy in the draft). We can't walk away from this season/off season with Grant being our big addition but I could definitely be OK with walking away with a Grant and a rookie that fits, has upside and is ready to positively impact the team right away.
 
Labinot41 said:
Dame wants Giannis

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Every player in this league that has a brain in his head wants Giannis. He's the best basketball player in the league, has the best attitude and IMO still has upside while I think we're seeing the best we're going to see out of Joker and Embiid... it might be at this level for those two for a while but I think Giannis is better today and will get even better.
 
wizenheimer said:
if that's true, then it's about 25% on Dame and 75% on management/ownership

I guess it's yet another reason to desperately hope that Portland moves into the top-4. And then hope the Blazers would NOT be stupid enough to trade a 3rd pick on Grant
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Well, that definitely would be stupid if they did trade it for Grant. I just don't think that is the plan. Maybe I am naive, but I think the plan, after the emergence of Simons, was to dump some salary, resign Ant (and Nurk) match him and Dame with a bigger guard, get a TPE so they can sign a veteran PF, and tank in order to get a young forward who can develop in a year or 2.

N.O put a kink in that plan by making the playoffs, but I still think they can make that plan work by offering a future draft pick. Unless Detroit can do better, I think they will make it work to dump Grant's salary so they can get minutes for their younger forwards. Regardless of what fans think of Cronin's "returns" so far in the trades, I do think he had a plan. and I don't think anyone in the organization would go through that tank job, just to get Grant. I think they wanted Hart, Grant, and a lottery pick to get better. Keon and Winslow are just nice throw-ins IMO. (although I like both)
 
blazerkor said:
Would doing what it takes to get rid of the conditions on our pick next year with Chicago (money and/or our #57 pick in this draft) so we could trade our 2025 and 2027 first along with the Bucks 2025 first be an overpay? Then we use whatever pick we land and pair that player with Grant..
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I don't think the 57th pick would be enough. The 36th pick might not be enough

what might do it is Portland offering the Bulls their 2023 first with only top-4 protections (or less?) on the condition that ends Portland's obligation. That would free up the 2025-2027 Portland picks
 
wizenheimer said:
if that's true, then it's about 25% on Dame and 75% on management/ownership

I guess it's yet another reason to desperately hope that Portland moves into the top-4. And then hope the Blazers would NOT be stupid enough to trade a 3rd pick on Grant
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:dry: Your optimism and faith is touching.
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't think the 57th pick would be enough. The 36th pick might not be enough

what might do it is Portland offering the Bulls their 2023 first with only top-4 protections (or less?) on the condition that ends Portland's obligation. That would free up the 2025-2027 Portland picks
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Have you ever seen the deals when they take protections off? They're usually just cash and sometimes they're cash and like a top 50 protected second rounder. We are assuring them that the pick conveys regardless of what happens with us. It makes the pick far more valuable in trade scenarios.
 
wizenheimer said:
I can't recall that I have....any examples?
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https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/02/0...luxury-tax-flexibility-in-trade-with-thunder/

The Heat sent the Thunder a complete scrub, got a second round pick coming back and pushed the pick they owed the Thunder back by two seasons. It's the only one I've found this year. That's far more valuable than what we would be trying to do and it cost far less than what you're saying.

I'm telling you that we could pay them cash to remove the conditions from that pick. It only benefits them. I get it that in theory it could allow us to make our team better and therefore the pick would convey later in the first round but it also makes it possible that they could get a lottery pick when that wasn't a possibility before. That Heat/Thunder thing took me forever to find, so I'm not going to take the time to find another but that should be sufficient for you to understand that what we would be trying to do would cost next to nothing.
 
blazerkor said:
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2022/02/0...luxury-tax-flexibility-in-trade-with-thunder/

The Heat sent the Thunder a complete scrub, got a second round pick coming back and pushed the pick they owed the Thunder back by two seasons. It's the only one I've found this year. That's far more valuable than what we would be trying to do and it cost far less than what you're saying.

I'm telling you that we could pay them cash to remove the conditions from that pick. It only benefits them. I get it that in theory it could allow us to make our team better and therefore the pick would convey later in the first round but it also makes it possible that they could get a lottery pick when that wasn't a possibility before. That Heat/Thunder thing took me forever to find, so I'm not going to take the time to find another but that should be sufficient for you to understand that what we would be trying to do would cost next to nothing.
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I'm not seeing a very persuasive comparison to Portland's situation.

* To start with, Miami is sending out a 2nd, not getting one

* I'm not sure that whatever OKC does in terms of owed draft picks is a good comp for any other team. Between this season and next season, they have 7 first round picks and 2 second round picks. So them kicking the can of that 8th first round pick in 2023 ahead to 2025 makes all kinds of sense for them

* I did say that if the Blazers are willing to drop protection on next year's pick, the Bulls may be willing to drop the extra years of obligations. I'd still be surprised if some cash and a 57th pick would be enough
 
Mediocre Man said:
Had a nice brunch today at one of my favorite places here and, again, I will be shocked if Grant is not a Blazer next year and we will most likely overpay to get him because it’s important to a certain player
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Damn, who knew Keljin Blevins had that much clout.
 
Woj specifically cites OKC/Spurs/Portland as potential teams that could open up max space to offer Ayton a deal in RFA.

Phoenix can still match or pursue S&Ts, but I tend to think our likelihood of landing Ayton is higher than others like Bridges or LaVine.

 
To the cap experts, what would it take to do a double S&T of Nurk for Ayton... or something like that? We can also open up close to max space if we just simply renounce Nurk's 12 mil caphold.

A S&T would give Phoenix something in return so Ayton doesn't just walk for nothing. Sarver appears to be balking at giving him the max, but I don't think it's that cost prohibitive. This is still the sorta baby max for Ayton coming off his rookie deal. I think he's a ~30 mil player if healthy.
 
illmatic99 said:
To the cap experts, what would it take to do a double S&T of Nurk for Ayton... or something like that? We can also open up close to max space if we just simply renounce Nurk's 12 mil caphold.

A S&T would give Phoenix something in return so Ayton doesn't just walk for nothing. Sarver appears to be balking at giving him the max, but I don't think it's that cost prohibitive. This is still the sorta baby max for Ayton coming off his rookie deal. I think he's a ~30 mil player if healthy.
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Keeping Hart and the RFA and bird rights on Ant, it's almost impossible. It's really close though and if we could just dump someone like Nas for a future first or a second this year or something, we could probably offer a fifth year player a max deal. If we let Hart walk it's an easy fit. A double sign and trade wouldn't work because Nurk isn't going to make close to the money that Ayton will. Ant won't even get paid enough to make that work. Oh and Nurk's cap hold is 18M.
 
illmatic99 said:
To the cap experts, what would it take to do a double S&T of Nurk for Ayton... or something like that? We can also open up close to max space if we just simply renounce Nurk's 12 mil caphold.

A S&T would give Phoenix something in return so Ayton doesn't just walk for nothing. Sarver appears to be balking at giving him the max, but I don't think it's that cost prohibitive. This is still the sorta baby max for Ayton coming off his rookie deal. I think he's a ~30 mil player if healthy.
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I am open to it. I like it better if we get to use a top 3 pick to put next to Ayton.
 
illmatic99 said:
To the cap experts, what would it take to do a double S&T of Nurk for Ayton... or something like that? We can also open up close to max space if we just simply renounce Nurk's 12 mil caphold.

A S&T would give Phoenix something in return so Ayton doesn't just walk for nothing. Sarver appears to be balking at giving him the max, but I don't think it's that cost prohibitive. This is still the sorta baby max for Ayton coming off his rookie deal. I think he's a ~30 mil player if healthy.
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As I posted in the "Maudlin May" thread, the Suns believe they have a deal available for a true superstar player who wants out of his current situation in return for a signed-and-traded Ayton.
 
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