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Jesus christ..... you guys are fucking killing me with your inability to grasp a simple concept.

NOBODY IS SAYING THAT ALL COPS ARE SHITTY PEOPLE.

WE ARE SAYING THAT THE JOB ATTRACTS SHITTY PEOPLE.

HOW ELSE DO YOU WANT ME TO WRITE THIS SO THAT IT GETS INTO YOUR BRAIN?

Not at this moment no. But its been said many times all cops are bad. IF they dont actively turn in those doing bad things they are bad too which makes like almost all of them bad. Shitty. I think it was @Minstrel that said that at one time. I could be wrong, but someone did and its also been a common theme during these protests.
 
I did answer your question....you don't need to shoot a man in the back 7 times to immobilize him...you can shoot him once in the leg for one thing...nobody shoots somebody in the back that many times in self defense
except for the fact that he could have been reaching for a gun and a shot in the leg only makes him want to get his weapon even faster.

and no, you didnt answer my question.
 
except for the fact that he could have been reaching for a gun and a shot in the leg only makes him want to get his weapon even faster.

and no, you didnt answer my question.
Is this like a treasure hunt for questions?.....I don't know what you're referencing but I disagree about the police tactics concerning this shooting......thought I went back and answered it...no you don't shoot the guy in the back multiple times without knowlege you're being assaulted
 
You'r country is heading straight into a civil war, who knows what Trump is gonna do if he looses in November, it's gonna be very ugly. Stay safe

I know that one. He will sue from here to eternity - because that's all he is good at - but it will not stand because even some of the conservatives on the SCOTUS seem to have had enough of him.

The only question is - will he be able to cheat his way to a victory by blocking votes. Otherwise, he is toast.
 
The level of ignorance by some is astounding. People here are actually justifying the cops' attempted murder.

Holy hell, we are in such a warped sense of reality when people think this way.
 
The level of ignorance by some is astounding. People here are actually justifying the cops' attempted murder.

Holy hell, we are in such a warped sense of reality when people think this way.

Not justifying as much as trying to be impartial? The thing is, I think its your thinking that is warped if you think its okay for someone to disobey the law (not following the cops request to stop) can think its fine to get into and reach into a vehicle. Are you saying this person shouldnt have thought about the current state of affairs and he didnt do anything wrong to put himself in the position to be shot?

I never said shooting him 7 times was good. or okay. I'm saying Cops have the right to defend themselves when they feel threatened too. I read someone said he shouldn't shoot until he is assaulted, but if you wait for that, 9 out of 10 times it will be too late.

This shooting should never have happened but to not put some blame on the victim is completely insane to me.
 
What is the "change" everyone is waiting for? And how will it be measured?
 
Nope. Not buying it. Its a matter of doing the right thing. Period. And there is a huge double standard. Pay doesn't determine the amount of energy someone should put into doing the right thing. If anything its more likely Money deters people from doing the right thing. So protesters screaming for equality and justice are just as at fault for letting their brethren harm innocent people as cops are responsible for other cops doing bad things.

You want equality, then lets be equally fair. Until then its just a joke. A horrible joke.

I thought you were asking for opinions, I gave you mine. Sorry for that. I'm wrong.
 
Peace keepers patroling, not trigger happy power figures

And how do you measure that? And how do you know the change you desire has occurred? And is that the point in time that you stop protesting?
 
I thought you were asking for opinions, I gave you mine. Sorry for that. I'm wrong.

Oh no you are totally entitled to your opinion. Im totally entitled to disagree with it. But notice how I didn't put you down or demean you while disagreeing so vehemently?
 
Not at this moment no. But its been said many times all cops are bad. IF they dont actively turn in those doing bad things they are bad too which makes like almost all of them bad. Shitty. I think it was @Minstrel that said that at one time. I could be wrong, but someone did and its also been a common theme during these protests.

What I've said is that as long as the police close ranks around even the bad/guilty ones, they're all implicated and complicit. That's not quite the same as saying they're all "the bad ones," but they can't completely separate themselves from the bad ones as long as they're part of a police force that protects the bad ones.
 
What is the "change" everyone is waiting for? And how will it be measured?
Here's my ideas.
1. Training
more intense training and longer 'boot camps' of training Training to include de-escalation training. Non-lethal ways to arrest someone. Should require a minimum of one-year training before being put onto the streets. Every year an officer should be required to go through a month of retraining.
Police with only high school education, are required an extra year of training and education, and off fieldwork before being put on the street.
2. Mental Health)
Every 6 months a police officer must go through a psychiatric exam. Police see the worst in humanity almost every day, everyone, their peers, citizens, etc need to know that their mental health is being checked upon. If they don't pass the exam then they need to have a time off period, where they don't do field duty work, they go through counseling for 6 months. When they retake the exam a pass means they can assume full duties. A fail means they are mentally unfit for the job, now they should have some sort of package for them that continues to help them with mental health, and helping them to find other jobs. The last thing we want is a mentally deranged ex-cop who has lost everything shoved out onto the world with no fall back and a gun.
3. Accountability.)
All complaints against a police officer must be reviewed by a third party overseen on a national level. police should not investigate their own friends. DA’s also must go through audits every 6 months. All investigation and audit findings need to be public knowledge. My chicken scratch way to handle this is that every officer and DA receives an accountability score of some sort. Minor things would give lower amount of points. Major things if found true would be an automatic termination, with no severance pay. If the minor things added up to enough points that would result in automatic termination.
4. Community) police representatives must be required to have monthly meetings with their community, they should have the hard discussions, and community concerns need to have tangible plans and results to community concerns. Body cams need to be on all the times.
5. Demilitarization)
"Brotherhood" isn't a bad thing, in the sense that people seeing what police see need to have a bond with who they're working with, but their needs to be less of this we protect our brothers when they do bad things attitude from the police.
They should not basically be a government gang. You fight this by having requirements for body cam's. If an officer is caught to be falsifying information of another cop, even on minor things it's a minimum 1-year prison term, no parole. - Police are at a higher standard than citizens.
6. Pay) This is a demanding Job it should be paid as one to incentivize people to do it.
7. Bodycam footage should be reviewed daily by state agencies and made public with no edits (unless there are EXTREME) circumstances.
 
What I've said is that as long as the police close ranks around even the bad/guilty ones, they're all implicated and complicit. That's not quite the same as saying they're all "the bad ones," but they can't completely separate themselves from the bad ones as long as they're part of a police force that protects the bad ones.

Sop I guess my question then is( not necessarily for you) how come this standard is not put forth on the protestors as well? Two wrong have NEVER made a right.
 
Here's my ideas.
1. Training
more intense training and longer 'boot camps' of training Training to include de-escalation training. Non-lethal ways to arrest someone. Should require a minimum of one-year training before being put onto the streets. Every year an officer should be required to go through a month of retraining.
Police with only high school education, are required an extra year of training and education, and off fieldwork before being put on the street.
2. Mental Health)
Every 6 months a police officer must go through a psychiatric exam. Police see the worst in humanity almost every day, everyone, their peers, citizens, etc need to know that their mental health is being checked upon. If they don't pass the exam then they need to have a time off period, where they don't do field duty work, they go through counseling for 6 months. When they retake the exam a pass means they can assume full duties. A fail means they are mentally unfit for the job, now they should have some sort of package for them that continues to help them with mental health, and helping them to find other jobs. The last thing we want is a mentally deranged ex-cop who has lost everything shoved out onto the world with no fall back and a gun.
3. Accountability.)
All complaints against a police officer must be reviewed by a third party overseen on a national level. police should not investigate their own friends. DA’s also must go through audits every 6 months. All investigation and audit findings need to be public knowledge. My chicken scratch way to handle this is that every officer and DA receives an accountability score of some sort. Minor things would give lower amount of points. Major things if found true would be an automatic termination, with no severance pay. If the minor things added up to enough points that would result in automatic termination.
4. Community) police representatives must be required to have monthly meetings with their community, they should have the hard discussions, and community concerns need to have tangible plans and results to community concerns. Body cams need to be on all the times.
5. Demilitarization)
"Brotherhood" isn't a bad thing, in the sense that people seeing what police see need to have a bond with who they're working with, but their needs to be less of this we protect our brothers when they do bad things attitude from the police.
They should not basically be a government gang. You fight this by having requirements for body cam's. If an officer is caught to be falsifying information of another cop, even on minor things it's a minimum 1-year prison term, no parole. - Police are at a higher standard than citizens.
6. Pay) This is a demanding Job it should be paid as one to incentivize people to do it.
7. Bodycam footage should be reviewed daily by state agencies and made public with no edits (unless there are EXTREME) circumstances.

You have a lot of common ground with BLM.

upload_2020-8-26_16-47-50.png

https://www.joincampaignzero.org/#vision
 
The other thing I've said, that ties into this "police forces attract shitty people" is that if you go to a playground and separate out the bullies, half will become criminals and half will become cops. That doesn't mean all cops are bullies, it means that the police force is a popular profession for people with that mentality because it gives them a legal way to have physical power over people.
 
And how do you measure that? And how do you know the change you desire has occurred? And is that the point in time that you stop protesting?
This racial profiling has been ingrained in this country for 400 years...and it goes way beyond this country...it's not going to change in my lifetime but steps can be made to address it and work towards change for future generations....education, social services, neighborhood watches and support groups...integration...there are many, many things that need to be addressed...I'm listening...I'm voting and I'm teaching what I know. I would love to see handguns and assault rifle bans and only manually chambered hunting weapons owned....I'd like to see homelessness addressed and the destitute given a dignified situation with which to improve their situations....rehabilitation...society needs good health just like people do. We don't have all the answers but we've got plenty of problems and questions. I'm ready for gun control for one thing.
The safest countries in the world don't allow people to be so heavily armed..and have much less violent crime or police brutality...I'm talking about places like Taiwan or New Zealand. Mental health also is a big issue for society
 
The other thing I've said, that ties into this "police forces attract shitty people" is that if you go to a playground and separate out the bullies, half will become criminals and half will become cops. That doesn't mean all cops are bullies, it means that the police force is a popular profession for people with that mentality because it gives them a legal way to have physical power over people.

That could be said about a great many things then though. Anyone desiring a management position is someone who desires power over others no?
 
Sop I guess my question then is( not necessarily for you) how come this standard is not put forth on the protestors as well? Two wrong have NEVER made a right.

Because "protestors" aren't an organization, like the police. They have no institutional power to "protect" others, they have no organization that hires and fires, there's no "protestor leadership" that gives them responsibility over other people to prevent them from doing what they're doing. Protestors are a bunch of people, many of them independent from each other. Sure, there are some organizations like BLM protesting, but if you run out there and start protesting, they have nothing to do with you and no authority to tell you to stop or make you stop. The police are an organization with responsibility and authority over other police and can suspend/fire and they can decide who to hire in the first place.

I'm not sure how this is even a comparison.
 
The other thing I've said, that ties into this "police forces attract shitty people" is that if you go to a playground and separate out the bullies, half will become criminals and half will become cops. That doesn't mean all cops are bullies, it means that the police force is a popular profession for people with that mentality because it gives them a legal way to have physical power over people.
Does that mean that all bullies either end up a criminal or a cop?
 
NO! Not you. Just many others. :) sorry for not clarifying.

Anyway, I personally feel that people who intentionally put themselves in positions of greater community trust have a greater obligation to said community. Therefore I place police over protestors in your scenario. There's is a job that requires an oath. Being a protestor has no such oath. There are very few occupations that require an oath. And we should expect more from them because they have sworn to be more.

Just like a priest, doctor, and cop, they all take a pledge and because of that they need to be held to the standard they swore to.
 
That could be said about a great many things then though. Anyone desiring a management position is someone who desires power over others no?

Physical power (which is what I said in my post)? Nope. While I'm sure plenty of managers are bullies, "manager" isn't a job you can just go out and get. At least nominally, you get that position by showing experience and competence at other positions first. It's not an easy way for people with bully tendencies to get power (especially physical power) over others.
 

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