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Because "protestors" aren't an organization, like the police. They have no institutional power to "protect" others, they have no organization that hires and fires, there's no "protestor leadership" that gives them responsibility over other people to prevent them from doing what they're doing. Protestors are a bunch of people, many of them independent from each other. Sure, there are some organizations like BLM protesting, but if you run out there and start protesting, they have nothing to do with you and no authority to tell you to stop or make you stop. The police are an organization with responsibility and authority over other police and can suspend/fire and they can decide who to hire in the first place.

I'm not sure how this is even a comparison.

Anyway, I personally feel that people who intentionally put themselves in positions of greater community trust have a greater obligation to said community. Therefore I place police over protestors in your scenario. There's is a job that requires an oath. Being a protestor has no such oath. There are very few occupations that require an oath. And we should expect more from them because they have sworn to be more.

Just like a priest, doctor, and cop, they all take a pledge and because of that they need to be held to the standard they swore to.

to me its a matter or morality and a badge isnt gonna change that.
If we want equality and justice it must happen in all facets in all arenas. If not it isnt equal.

ww must point out and attempt to negate all bad actions. Cops, citizens, all people.
No one gets pass because of their job, position, badge or civil stance.

its real difficult to take a sect seriously when they cry foul on the other party but refuse to call it the same within thier own party.
 
Anyway, I personally feel that people who intentionally put themselves in positions of greater community trust have a greater obligation to said community. Therefore I place police over protestors in your scenario. There's is a job that requires an oath. Being a protestor has no such oath. There are very few occupations that require an oath. And we should expect more from them because they have sworn to be more.

Just like a priest, doctor, and cop, they all take a pledge and because of that they need to be held to the standard they swore to.

I personally believe that people like the doctor for USA gymnastics, and priests who sexually abuse kids should receive a greater punishment than regular people who commit the same crime. Their positions of trust make it easier for them to do bad things and to hide those bad things.

I put police in the same category.
 
I personally believe that people like the doctor for USA gymnastics, and priests who sexually abuse kids should receive a greater punishment than regular people who commit the same crime. Their positions of trust make it easier for them to do bad things and to hide those bad things.

I put police in the same category.
Doctors kill a lot more people from bad doctoring every year than police, not disagreeing with you, but no one seems to care about that.
 
to me its a matter or morality and a badge isnt gonna change that.
If we want equality and justice it must happen in all facets in all arenas. If not it isnt equal.

Someone like a bad cop can ruin so many more lives. Cops testify against people, collect evidence against people, can frame 100 people over their career. A protestor just doesn't have the same power over people.
 
Doctors kill a lot more people from bad doctoring every year than police, not disagreeing with you, but no one seems to care about that.

Okay.

Lots of people care about that. Is it to the point where protesting is needed? Is it malpractice or criminal?
 
its real difficult to take a sect seriously when they cry foul on the other party but refuse to call it the same within thier own party.

Protestors aren't a "party," though. It's like asking "if you want police to take responsibility for the bad cops, are you going to take responsibility the bad Americans?" I don't have the authority to do that. If a random person in my city or state or nation does a stupid or violent thing, that doesn't mean I enabled it. I didn't "hire" him to be an American. I don't get to set the rules he/she has to abide by. I don't get to suspend his citizenship or deport him for being a "bad American."

Police forces get to decide who becomes a cop. They get to set the rules for their police force. They get to train them. They have the authority to suspend/fire them. They have the ability to use the power of their union to fight prosecution of members of their union. Organizations, especially professional organizations, have responsibility and authority that random groups of non-organized people do not have.
 
Okay.

Lots of people care about that. Is it to the point where protesting is needed? Is it malpractice or criminal?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

Depends on the situation on whether its criminal or malpractice.
Does it deserve protests, I dont know individuals can decide that for themselves. Its exponentially larger than police.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/08/police-shootings-are-leading-cause-death-young-american-men-new-research-shows/?outputType=amp

Its not quite the same obviously their jobs are completely different. I am simply pointing out that you put them in a similar group, one causes significantly more deaths but has very little public outcry compared to the other.

Again though, Im for police reform.
 
Wasn’t interested in Bubble NBA once the Blazers were out anyway. It’s a fake season.

Should have just canceled it and tried to start over after Biden is elected in November and Covid and racial issues disappear for a while.
 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cn...-third-leading-cause-of-death-in-america.html

Depends on the situation on whether its criminal or malpractice.
Does it deserve protests, I dont know individuals can decide that for themselves. Its exponentially larger than police.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/business/2019/08/08/police-shootings-are-leading-cause-death-young-american-men-new-research-shows/?outputType=amp

Its not quite the same obviously their jobs are completely different. I am simply pointing out that you put them in a similar group, one causes significantly more deaths but has very little public outcry than the other.

Again though, Im for police reform.

I believe that the majority of those are errors and I would love to have a thread discussing medical reform in this country. It's desperately needed. Because yes, I do have a higher standard for my doctor when it comes to medical advice then a neighbor or even a president.
 
I believe that the majority of those are errors and I would love to have a thread discussing medical reform in this country. It's desperately needed. Because yes, I do have a higher standard for my doctor when it comes to medical advice then a neighbor or even a president.
That comes in with training both for doctors and police, and better procedures too. Too many times police do what their taught to do or follow the guidelines given, they’re just bad guidelines.
I havent really dug into the statistics for doctors that much and this is obviously a thread about police.
So Im tying it back into a very tangible thing to me is more training, and better thought out guidelines and processes for working with the public.
 
Someone like a bad cop can ruin so many more lives. Cops testify against people, collect evidence against people, can frame 100 people over their career. A protestor just doesn't have the same power over people.

hmm i think power of influence could do more damage.

Protestors aren't a "party," though. It's like asking "if you want police to take responsibility for the bad cops, are you going to take responsibility the bad Americans?" I don't have the authority to do that. If a random person in my city or state or nation does a stupid or violent thing, that doesn't mean I enabled it. I didn't "hire" him to be an American. I don't get to set the rules he/she has to abide by. I don't get to suspend his citizenship or deport him for being a "bad American."

Police forces get to decide who becomes a cop. They get to set the rules for their police force. They get to train them. They have the authority to suspend/fire them. They have the ability to use the power of their union to fight prosecution of members of their union. Organizations, especially professional organizations, have responsibility and authority that random groups of non-organized people do not have.

but they are a party. Not in the political sense but they are a group of people doing the same thing.

there is no difference to me when a white person says and does nothing to another white person who is using racial slurs or harming an innocent person vs a cop not turning in thier own.
Its individual responsibility and if we truly want change then we ALL need to change. Not just some.
My opinions i like to think of as fairly open minded and swayable with valid and tangible evidence against it, but on this im pretty steadfast.

If we dont ALL change for the better there will be all out civil war because the right extremist will not allow forced change on them when its not equally instilled on all.
I know im now speaking beyond police and protestors but that will be the end result if we don't hold all accountable regardless of what group or activity or career someone may have.
 
there is no difference to me when a white person says and does nothing to another white person who is using racial slurs or harming an innocent person vs a cop not turning in thier own.

What exactly do think that white person should do to the other white person? You lay hands on someone who is spewing racist bullshit you're committing a crime.
 
What exactly do think that white person should do to the other white person? You lay hands on someone who is spewing racist bullshit you're committing a crime.

not ignore it. Call them out? I never said get physical. But hell yeah shame them. Publicly and any way possible within the law?
 
not ignore it. Call them out? I never said get physical. But hell yeah shame them. Publicly and any way possible within the law?

If someone is yelling racial slurs in public there is really nothing you can say to shame them. In your scenario I would move towards the person being yelled at and offer to stay there with them and go with them if they want to get away from the person. It's about preventing an ugly situation from turning into an even worse situation.
 
If someone is yelling racial slurs in public there is really nothing you can say to shame them. In your scenario I would move towards the person being yelled at and offer to stay there with them and go with them if they want to get away from the person. It's about preventing an ugly situation from turning into an even worse situation.

that too, but i would do it with my camera on aNd depending on how bad it got, might be inclined to follow them to their car (the bigot) get their plates and post it aNd the episode. Hell. Maybe even follow them home and post their address.
Shits gotta stop aNd those types need to be shunned from society or shit will never change.

yes. Legally aNd constitutionally able to live here. But constantly being shamed.
Videos like this scenario, handed over to a media outlets, go viral and reporters will sit outside thier house looking to dig for more.


To me there isnt one answer. Its a multitude of ways that racism can be fought.
What im saying is racism will never cease as long as being condemned for bad behavior, or behavior disobedient to the law, isn't dealt with equally, just the same as everything else.
racist folk will use that as a pillar to form and pass down thier superior ideologies.

so just as much as the racial slur guy needs to be held accountable, so does the cop for firing 7 times...

but so does the victim for not following orders and not being compliant, forcing the officers to make a choice based on fear for thier life, once he reached in the vehicle.
This cannot be dismissed or it is feeding fuel to the fire of racism.
 
there is no difference to me when a white person says and does nothing to another white person who is using racial slurs or harming an innocent person vs a cop not turning in thier own.

There's a big difference. You have no authority over that "white person." Police forces have authority over police.

I'm not white, I'm a big believer in systemic racism and I don't believe white people "have a responsibility for all other white people." That would be ridiculous. Like anything else, it's a good idea to model good behavior for friends and family and to have these discussions where you can but, aside from parents with children, white people don't have authority over other white people so it's an invalid comparison to police forces with their police officers.
 
But then doesnt that solidify my point? IF there is distrust why on earth would someone defy the officer' orders and give them an opportunity? Id be on my knees hands behind my head.
I can even agree with this idea but the problem comes when they are on their knees with their hands behind their head and they still get beaten. Need i post the Rodney King beating? Should i post the multitudes of videos of groups of cops beating up a black man and eventually killing him? How about Video after video of Black men seemingly running for their lives while white officers open fire on them shooting them in the back because they were "In Fear For Their Lives"?
Black people simply don't feel comfortable in the presence of law enforcement any longer. In my humble opinion rightfully so.
 
I can even agree with this idea but the problem comes when they are on their knees with their hands behind their head and they still get beaten. Need i post the Rodney King beating? Should i post the multitudes of videos of groups of cops beating up a black man and eventually killing him? How about Video after video of Black men seemingly running for their lives while white officers open fire on them shooting them in the back because they were "In Fear For Their Lives"?
Black people simply don't feel comfortable in the presence of law enforcement any longer. In my humble opinion rightfully so.[/QUOTE
Im not saying it hasnt or doesn't happen, but im trying to be impartial a out the specific situation at hand.
 
The only idea in the media is defunding, without specifics. Defunding just means to transfer funds to local unarmed agencies to enforce the least dangerous part of policing. Let's get creative.

In addition to the obvious (hold the legal system to the same behavior standards high bar to which they hold us...also, make police unholster 2% as often as now):

Prosecutors won't prosecute police, and when they rarely do, it's a pretense to stall a year while the controlled media stops reporting the case, to make the public cool off.

Here's my idea. When a policeman kills someone, the Public Defender should become his Prosecutor. Anyone would be more motivated than the Prosecutor...just trying to find someone better to do the job.

The larger picture includes changing the selection process for lawyers, many of whom have a fascist robotic mindset, seeing human nature as the enemy. "The law is the law. I am way too overpaid to waste time on why it's the law. (snicker)" Bigger picture, state legislators...then Federal legislators...top of the pyramid, the FBI...Get this done by Tuesday.
 

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