Nets and Rahim

[jkidd]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting giftedvisionz:</div><div class="quote_post">Honestly I would consider that as good news. Probably no other team would offer him that kind of money anymore at this point, and it seems SAR is more focused on winning.</div>

i hope it turns in our favor. coz if SAR is more focused on winning and less on the money, there are more teams out there( miami,spurs)that can give him a better chance of winning. so im just crossing my fingers right now and holding my breath!

 

[Henacy]

Yes him turning down 47 million dollars from the Bucks was a good thing because it tells us that Shareef is more focused on winning, which the Bucks probably wont be doing much of as they try to mesh all their young new parts together with Bogut, Simmons and Redd coming back etc. If Shareef would have turned down 47 million from a team that makes the playoffs consistenly year in & year out like Sacramento who has been to the playoffs for about 4 years straight....then it would make you wonder a bit. But the Bucks have been struggling with alot of change in player & coaching personal over the past couple of years. He probably doesnt know what direction that franchise is headed.

 

[NJNetz]

either that or he just doesnt want to be a buck. i think he is thinkin either thinkin of signin wit miami, spurs,kings or the nets

 

[giftedvisionz]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Thorn: 'I'm not giving a No. 1 pick' to get Abdur-Rahim
Wednesday, July 13, 2005
BY DAVE D'ALESSANDRO
Star-Ledger Staff

The Nets have already invested a great deal of time, energy and fawning attention toward the recruitment of Shareef Abdur-Rahim in the past 13 days, but the one thing they are not prepared to pay is the price of a first-round draft pick, Rod Thorn reiterated last night.

The Nets president said he did not speak yesterday with Portland general manager John Nash, who is holding the Nets up for a No. 1 pick in exchange for agreeing to do a sign-and-trade deal that will get the free-agent forward the $37 million contract he believes he deserves.

Thorn is eager to give Abdur-Rahim his market value. He just doesn't want to give in to Nash and Blazers owner Paul Allen, who seem just as eager to let Abdur-Rahim leave Portland without compensation they could have in the form of a $4.9 million trade exception that can be used in future deals.

The only question is this: Don't the Nets believe Abdur-Rahim is worth the price of a first-round pick, especially since they have two of them?

"That's fair. Everyone looks at things differently," Thorn said last night from Las Vegas. "But I'm not interested in giving up one of our No. 1 picks, I'll say that."


http://www.nj.com/nets/ledger/index.ssf?/b...8810.xml&coll=1</div>

The situation looks a bit dimmer now. As long as we pull out SAR, Swift, or Marshall then i'm happy.

 

[XSV]

I don't understnad why Thorn won't give up our next years no.1 pick. We'd still have the Clippers pick, and that would be a far higher pick than ours b/c we will likely do considerably better than the Clips next year. Plus, the draft next year isn't supposed to be that deep neway...we only need one pick in it. We gotta start playin for the present than the future b/c Jason isn't gettin any younger. Maybe Thorn trying to wait until the last possible second to give in to Portland or Portland is doing the same to us, but either way, we HAVE to get either SAR, Swift or Marshall.

 

[Ma3oxuct]

I think that if Thorn has to, he'll give up the Pick...right now, he might just be saying that he won't give up the pick, as a way of negotiating with Portland or any other team for that matter.

 

[Really Lost One]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting NbaBaller:</div><div class="quote_post">well hearin that from you makes me happy. if they sign and everythin goes well, i think they will be a very good team, hopefully one of the top teams.</div>
if they sign shareef, u gotta change ur sig to the big 4 instead of the big 3.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">July 13, 2005 -- What the Nets want to give, the Blazers don't want, and what the Blazers want, the Nets won't give.
So Nets brass, while still placing Shareef Abdur-Rahim atop its power-forward wish list, stepped up a contingency scenario by meeting yesterday in Las Vegas with Memphis free agent Stromile Swift.

The Nets' approach has been to try to land Abdur-Rahim from Portland through a sign-and-trade with their $4.9 trade exception and a second-round draft pick, but the Blazers are adamant that they have no interest in the trade exception and want a No. 1. Conversely, the Nets are loathe to part with a No. 1 pick.

Nets president Rod Thorn, in Las Vegas, had no additional talks with Portland and claimed the situation was "nowhere." While Thorn declined to reveal any particulars of his previous talks, he indicated it would be "fair to say" he would not part with any first-round pick, including a 2007 pick that Blazers GM John Nash indicated could get it done. The Blazers could lose Abdur-Rahim and get nothing in return if he takes a mid-level exception offer. </div>

Shareef on Hold, Focus Switches to Swift

 

[Henacy]

Well I think you have to look at the broad scope of things when viewing why the Nets dont want to give up a first rounder in a sign & trade. One, is the fact that Rahim is unrestricted, the Nets are just doing the sign & trade as means of putting more money into Rahim's pockets, its not like they are doing this because Portland wants Rahim & is willing to match their offer. Also combine that with the fact that their are other forwards interested in New Jersey & vice versa....who can help this team most notably Swift & Marshall, so Thorn doesnt want to hamper anything that may effect long term goals for a chance at immediate success. And that leads me to point #2.

#2, The Nets being a championship contender is not given even with the acquistion of Shareef. This team still has alot of holes that need to be filled. And a 1st round pick can be used as part of another deal to help fill in the other weakness. Or you can end up using that 1st rounder yourself next season...I know the Nets are a win now team...but that doesnt mean that they have to put everything into winning the championship in 2005-06 or its a failure. I think the Nets window of "win now" is about a 3 year window, because that is how long I think Kidd can still be effective. So you might have a pieace or two in next years draft that can help you achive that ultimate championship goal, if another part to the puzzle needs to be added.

I agree with Rod Thorn not giving up to much because you dont want to put a bunch of eggs in one basket so to speak, leave your options open to continue to make moves. I think a coulpe of 2nd rounders & the TE is what should be given to acquire Rahim in a sign & trade.

 

[InNETSweTrust]

Well Haslem gave his word on re signing with the Heat so as long as Reef is committed to winning and doing a major role about it as a starter, we're still in the running.

No matter who they get, Reef or Swift, they'll still a need for another contributor. So that 1st rounder is kinda important to us. I mean I'm not expecting Thorn to get Reef and stop at it. I'd prefer that we get Swift and get to keep our 1st rounder.

 

[Shapecity]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">Goodwin said his client is considering eight offers of the midlevel exception, which is the fund that capped-out teams can spend on free agents. It includes a first-year salary starting somewhere between $4.9 million and $5.2 million, and can be stretched out five years.

He added that Abdur-Rahim may visit Miami next, "but at this point, we may sit tight."

The Nets, meanwhile, want Abdur-Rahim to be more proactive. Specifically, they want him to say he's coming to New Jersey regardless of the contract figures. That would possibly motivate the Blazers to stop holding them up for a first-round pick or the rights to second-round pick Mile Ilic as compensation for a sign-and-trade deal. The Nets have already told the Blazers that they aren't willing to part with either.

So if that's the case, how long should the Nets be willing to wait for Abdur-Rahim to make up his mind?

"Until he gets something done with another team," Goodwin warned. "That's what it comes down to. That's the situation. It's a decision Shareef has to make, and he's definitely not willing to settle for the midlevel." </div>

Pressure on Nets to complete deal

 

[XSV]

At least we knoe we got a steal by drafting Ilic because it seems Portland wants him as much as a future first-rounder. I guess Mile does have lots of potential, but he won't be ready for awhile. But... I say we give up Ilic, b/c it seems European bigmen are a dime a dozen, and just b/c Krstic is doing well doesn't mean they all will. Drejer looks to be a big bust, and honestly I dont see why teams keep drafting European projects that are a huge gamble and will not be NBA ready for at least a couple of years (Orlando-Vasquez, LAC- Korolev). I mean hasn't anybody learned anything from Darko???

Anyway, we should hold out on Portland as long as we can, but if it comes down to it, we should give up Ilic to get Rahim, because I don't think Swift will come any cheaper, and I think we all agree we'd rather have SAR.

...It'd be sweet if we could use the TE on SAR and then split the MLE between Donyell and Dooling, but I seriously doubt Marshall will go for anything less than the full MLE unless we can convince him to take a paycut to win. Most likely we'll have to split it between Dooling, Songaila and possibly someone else who is really cheap. Then we can use the LLE on some rookies or journeymen to fill out our bench ( i reallllly hope we can get Coppenrath). I'm not sure how that would work though and if we used our LLE last year and wouldn't be able to use it this year.

 

[VinKanaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">...It'd be sweet if we could use the TE on SAR and then split the MLE between Donyell and Dooling, but I seriously doubt Marshall will go for anything less than the full MLE unless we can convince him to take a paycut to win. Most likely we'll have to split it between Dooling, Songaila and possibly someone else who is really cheap. Then we can use the LLE on some rookies or journeymen to fill out our bench ( i reallllly hope we can get Coppenrath). I'm not sure how that would work though and if we used our LLE last year and wouldn't be able to use it this year.</div>

If Donyell wanted to win and have to take a paycut, he'll go to Washington or Miami. In Washington, he'll still get paid the full MLE with a chance to start for a top 5 seed in the east, and in Miami he'll get to play alongside Shaq and Wade as a member of a possible contender. Shaq / Wade both command double teams, and that means Marshall will get plenty of open looks from beyond the three point line.

 

[XSV]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">If Donyell wanted to win and have to take a paycut, he'll go to Washington or Miami. In Washington, he'll still get paid the full MLE with a chance to start for a top 5 seed in the east, and in Miami he'll get to play alongside Shaq and Wade as a member of a possible contender. Shaq / Wade both command double teams, and that means Marshall will get plenty of open looks from beyond the three point line.</div>

First of all, numerous analysts are predicting the Nets to be serious contenders not only for the Eastern title, but even for the championship if they add Rahim, and Dooling is pretty much a lock for us using porbly a little under half of our MLE.

Second of all, with or without Rahim, I'd be very, very surprised if the Nets finished behind the Hughe and Kwame-less wizards in the East.

Third of all, Marshall would have even more trouble competing for minutes with the front-court-loaded Heat than he did with TO. Sure he COULD have a better chance at a title with Miami, but he'd be sharing a ton of minutes with Haslem, Mourning, Simien and Laitner. Plus I don't really recall Miami being too interested in Donyell in the first place. Washington, Houston, NY, and NJ are the front-runners for his services.

Fourth of all, he'd get just as many, if not more open threes with 3 of the best playmakers in the league driving and kicking it out to him- while all the time drawing the majority of the defense's attention themselves.

Fifthly, Marshall is good friends with Vince, and has made it clear he would love to play on NJ. When Jersey beat Boston to make it to the playoffs this year, he said something like "My future team just made the playoffs."

Lastly, I was just speculating and thought it would be sweet if we could somehow get 3 quality players that would boost our team in Rahim, Dooling and Donyell. I do know that the chances of us getting all three players is very slim. We could give Marshall the full MLE and I'm sure he would come to back up SAR and Krstic, but then we wouldn't be able to get Dooling to back up Kidd and we'd have to settle for Best again.

 

[VinKanaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">First of all, numerous analysts are predicting the Nets to be serious contenders not only for the Eastern title, but even for the championship if they add Rahim, and Dooling is pretty much a lock for us using porbly a little under half of our MLE. </div>

'Numerous analysts' as in? Be realistic. You will make the playoffs for sure - it will be sad if you don't - but you have no shot at crowning either the Eastern Conference or the Championship. Adding Antoine Wright / SAR or even Donyell wouldn't get you that far when Miami / Indiana / Detroit is standing in your way. Dooling will command at least the full MLE.


<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Second of all, with or without Rahim, I'd be very, very surprised if the Nets finished behind the Hughe and Kwame-less wizards in the East.</div>

I didn't say the Nets will finish behind the Wizards. I said Marshall will get an opportunity to start for a top 5 seed team. The Nets most likely would win the Atlantic Division and therefore will be an automatic lock for the third seed. Wizards lost Hughes, but they got Caron Butler and got rid of Kwame's cancer-like effect. Kwame Brown contributed nothing in Wizards' playoff run last year.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Third of all, Marshall would have even more trouble competing for minutes with the front-court-loaded Heat than he did with TO. Sure he COULD have a better chance at a title with Miami, but he'd be sharing a ton of minutes with Haslem, Mourning, Simien and Laitner. Plus I don't really recall Miami being too interested in Donyell in the first place. Washington, Houston, NY, and NJ are the front-runners for his services.</div>

He never had a hard time finding minutes in Toronto. He was the 6th man for us. What do you mean he 'could'? He definitely has a better chance with the Heat. Miami was the front runner for Donyell Marshall trade at the trade deadline last February. Washington definitely wants Marshall, and Marshall has the Wizards on the top of his list, but Houston? Last time I checked they were pushing for Stromile Swift and Damon Stoudamire. New York can't sign him now because they signed Jerome James using their MLE.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Fourth of all, he'd get just as many, if not more open threes with 3 of the best playmakers in the league driving and kicking it out to him- while all the time drawing the majority of the defense's attention themselves.</div>

Er... since when did Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson become two of the best playmakers in the league? Jason Kidd is one, but Vince and RJ aren't even close to being in the same class as the best playmakers in the NBA. If I remember correctly, you guys had a tough time sharing touches between Kidd, Carter and Jefferson, and if you add Marshall to that mix, you're definitely going to have problems getting everyone a fair share of the ball.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Fifthly, Marshall is good friends with Vince, and has made it clear he would love to play on NJ. When Jersey beat Boston to make it to the playoffs this year, he said something like "My future team just made the playoffs."</div>

Give me a source that states Marshall would love to play for NJ. I've never read or heard him say anything close to NJ being his 'future team'. He was still in Toronto when NJ played Boston, and I'm 100% sure there was no mention of him stating something like that.

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">Lastly, I was just speculating and thought it would be sweet if we could somehow get 3 quality players that would boost our team in Rahim, Dooling and Donyell. I do know that the chances of us getting all three players is very slim. We could give Marshall the full MLE and I'm sure he would come to back up SAR and Krstic, but then we wouldn't be able to get Dooling to back up Kidd and we'd have to settle for Best again.</div>

That would be nice in a perfect world, but in the real world that's close to impossible. You either get SAR / Dooling, or settle on Donyell. I just think that if he's getting the same amount of money (MLE), he'd go to somewhere where he could start. He for sure wouldn't sign just to back up Shareef. The SAR / Dooling scenario looks ideal, but you'd have to figure out the sign-and-trade with the Blazers first.

 

[giftedvisionz]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">If I remember correctly, you guys had a tough time sharing touches between Kidd, Carter and Jefferson, and if you add Marshall to that mix, you're definitely going to have problems getting everyone a fair share of the ball. </div>
And you remember this from when? There were only a couple of games where we had all three out on the floor the past season, and they played just fine with each other. Jefferson still does well when there are other talents on the floor. Take a look at the 03-04 season when we had Kidd, Kittles, RJ, and K-mart touching the ball.

 

[VinKanaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting giftedvisionz:</div><div class="quote_post">And you remember this from when? There were only a couple of games where we had all three out on the floor the past season, and they played just fine with each other. Jefferson still does well when there are other talents on the floor. Take a look at the 03-04 season when we had Kidd, Kittles, RJ, and K-mart touching the ball.</div>

A couple games? What about the playoffs? They didn't exactly dazzle anyone with their ability to share the rock. IMO, Kidd and Carter duo played much better than Kidd / Carter / Jefferson trio.

 

[Run BJM]

Sounds like you guys landed Abdur-Rahim, congrats!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2110920

 

[Next Level Game]

Solid move. Next year is going to be great, if everyone stays healthy. Can't wait!

 

[giftedvisionz]

VinKanaddy: Yes, it was only a couple of games. The off-season gives Frank and the other coaches to come up with a system that fits the trio, Krstic, and possibly SAR/Swift well. They only played four games in the playoffs. Sharing wasn't the problem in the series, as they shot around 39% from the field during the series. And while the trio getting 61 assists among them in 4 games wasn't so dazzling, their passing was fairly efficient, considering on the scoring help from the bench. They didn't have trouble getting the ball down low to Krstic, who was averaging 18.3 ppg on 56.3% shooting. Besides him, no one else played a factor. The rest of the bench plus Collins accounted only for 19.3% of the points during the series, on 37.2% shooting. They had no choice but to take the scoring into their own hands.

Edit: I hope this news is official. I won't truly believe it coming from Chad Ford, but I have a feeling that it went through. As long as we signed him or Swift, i'm a happy man.

 

[playmaker15]

Yea now that H-Town has Stro we really need SAR.

 

[XSV]

In no way did we see the trio actually playing together to their full potential. In Vince's first game as a Net (having had no time to gel with RJ and Kidd), RJ injured his hand, and played like 2 games after that injured before getting surgery. In the playoffs when RJ came back, it would be an insult to his talent to say he was at 100%. He had just come off of a rushed rehab, and the fact that he was playing at all was amazing. He came off the bench the first 2 games, and didn't seem his normal self the whole series.

Anyways...the key to this deal is we have to work a sign-and-trade or else we might not be able to sign some of the other key players we need like Dooling and Darius, as the TE expires the 29th and cannot be split up between two teams. However, if we do use the MLE on SAR we could use the TE to lure another big free-agent like Daniels or possibly another big like Marshall (but then we'd have to settle for Best, Vaughan and Zoran to back up Kidd again...) Either way we have quite a few options and its going to be exciting to see how this pans out.

 

[playmaker15]

I agree, the trio didn't play to full potential. Now we we have a crazy foursome that is hard to stop. I think the addition of SAR will help RJ, VC, and Kidd more than one way, either drawing attention from the defense which will open up shots for others or finding guys cutting to the basket. SAR is a huge addition. Nets will win 50-55 games this year.

 

[NJNetz]

Well basiclly our only choice is Reef. if not him then i guess donyell marshall.

 

[VinKanaddy]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting virve119:</div><div class="quote_post">In no way did we see the trio actually playing together to their full potential. In Vince's first game as a Net (having had no time to gel with RJ and Kidd), RJ injured his hand, and played like 2 games after that injured before getting surgery. In the playoffs when RJ came back, it would be an insult to his talent to say he was at 100%. He had just come off of a rushed rehab, and the fact that he was playing at all was amazing. He came off the bench the first 2 games, and didn't seem his normal self the whole series.

Anyways...the key to this deal is we have to work a sign-and-trade or else we might not be able to sign some of the other key players we need like Dooling and Darius, as the TE expires the 29th and cannot be split up between two teams. However, if we do use the MLE on SAR we could use the TE to lure another big free-agent like Daniels or possibly another big like Marshall (but then we'd have to settle for Best, Vaughan and Zoran to back up Kidd again...) Either way we have quite a few options and its going to be exciting to see how this pans out.</div>

I still think that you guys will be better off by trading Jefferson for a starting centre and bench players who can step in to provide help. If I remember correctly, trade exceptions can't be used to sign players, unless you meant you could use it for a sign-and-trade. Anyway, congratulations on the signing of SAR, you've just upgraded the 4 spot considerably.

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">VinKanaddy: Yes, it was only a couple of games. The off-season gives Frank and the other coaches to come up with a system that fits the trio, Krstic, and possibly SAR/Swift well. They only played four games in the playoffs. Sharing wasn't the problem in the series, as they shot around 39% from the field during the series. And while the trio getting 61 assists among them in 4 games wasn't so dazzling, their passing was fairly efficient, considering on the scoring help from the bench. They didn't have trouble getting the ball down low to Krstic, who was averaging 18.3 ppg on 56.3% shooting. Besides him, no one else played a factor. The rest of the bench plus Collins accounted only for 19.3% of the points during the series, on 37.2% shooting. They had no choice but to take the scoring into their own hands.</div>

I hate stats, they don't tell you the whole story about a player and I just happen to believe that the Nets' backcourt is a little too crowded with RJ / VC / JK. Having a role-player and two all stars instead of having three all stars seem a better option.

 

[NJNetz]

<div class="quote_poster">Quote:</div><div class="quote_post">I still think that you guys will be better off by trading Jefferson for a starting centre and bench players who can step in to provide help. If I remember correctly, trade exceptions can't be used to sign players, unless you meant you could use it for a sign-and-trade. Anyway, congratulations on the signing of SAR, you've just upgraded the 4 spot considerably. </div>


we didnt sign him or did we??

 

[VinKanaddy]

According to reports, SAR will either agree to a sign-and-trade with the Blazers with the Nets sending the trade exception and a future 1st round pick their way, or agree to sign for the MLE.

 

[giftedvisionz]

<div class="quote_poster">Quoting VinKanaddy:</div><div class="quote_post">I still think that you guys will be better off by trading Jefferson for a starting centre and bench players who can step in to provide help.</div>
That might be good, but I'm still high on Krstic as our future center. If this were to happen, i'd trade Jefferson when his stock rises, probably after this season if he's healthy all the way through. I'm just glad our starting 5 can be competitive again. Hopefully we can sign Dooling now.

 

[Henacy]

I love how Vince Carter fans are always throwing out the suggestion of trading Richard Jefferson, while I am definately for keeping both, if one had to go it would be Carter. While Carter is the better offensive player, RJ is the better rebounder and more capable defender. And brings more aspects of the game to the table then Carter, with more upside. Richard Jefferson is a consistent jumpshot away from being an elite player in this league. No way do the Nets organization(front office, us fans etc) invest 4 years in the development of Richard Jefferson, just to trade him away as he is about to verge onto his peek as a NBA star, just because Vince Carter came to town. No disrespect to Carter and what he did for this team last year but we have to much invested in RJ as the future face of this franchise. I mean last year when we gave him the big contract extension while sending K-Mart to Denver, we made that long term commitment to him. And I want to see his potential forfilled in a Nets uni....which means Carter or Jefferson...lets just say for me..Carter would be on the first thing smoking out of the Garden State

 

[thedude9990]

i dont understand why trade one of the three? jefferson si a solid defender with a consistnt mid range jumper, carter isnt a great defender but hes one of the greatest scorers rite now when he wants to be. and kidd is just great i just dont understand, plus they never actualyl got to play toghether