New HINRICH RUMOR

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RoyToy said:
8-12 weeks as of early November.
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Yikes... So basically we would be opening up playing time for Bayless. Then, once Kirk gets back, we would see how things panned out.

Two players that intrigue me:

Kirk Hinrich
Andrei Kirilenko

They were both once considered very good players. I think they could both recapture their game and I would love to see them help us win a championship.

Hinrich
Roy
Kirilenko
Aldridge
Oden

Call me crazy but I like it.
 
Denny Crane said:
The Bulls are already deep at the G spots. They'd have a short rotation of Rose, Gordon, Hughes, and Hunter - making Sergio their 5th guard.

Again, the only reason the Bulls do this is because of that depth, they can't afford to pay Hughes and Hinrich big bucks to sit as reserves, and once Hinrich went out with his injury the team has beaten Dallas and then Indy (in a blowout) with Gordon taking over as the team's goto guy. Gordon is now at 21.3 PPG on 47% shooting/41% 3pt and near 4 assists/game next to Rose and is leading the team in scoring.

The Bulls and Gordon could not come to terms on a contract extension this off-season because the Bulls did not have enough room under the LT threshold to sign both him and Deng. This trade would give them the ability to match any offer for Gordon (though he can sign anywhere he wants) and even pay him more than any other team should they choose. Or minus LaFrentz (or Hinrich) and Gordon, they'd have a lot of room to be a player this summer.

Gordon's 82games.com stats are stunning as well. 50 PER at PG, 21.2 at SG, and 24.7 at SF in the smallball lineups. Even more stunning are his defensive numbers - opposing PG's PER at 8.1, SG's at 9.4, and SF at 4.6.

This deal would mark the end of the Hinrich era in Chicago - "the right way to play" - and the admission by Paxson that he picked the wrong guy to sign to the big deal (big being $10M/season) in Hinrich over Gordon.
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I'm probably in the minority but I was thinking we might use our cap space next summer on Gorden. I think he would fit great playing with Roy. I still think Bayless is our future backcourt with Roy but Nate might like the veteran Gordon and we would have the money to make him a great offer next summer. I would think KP/Nate would rather have Gordon then Hinrich and we have as much cap space as anybody next summer. If we trade for Hinrich that would mean we would like Hinrich better then Gordon which I'm pretty sure KP is smarter then that.
 
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Tortimer said:
I'm probably in the minority but I was thinking we might use our cap space next summer on Gorden. I think he would fit great playing with Roy. I still think Bayless is our future backcourt with Roy but Nate might like the veteran Gordon and we would have the money to make him a great offer next summer. I would think KP/Nate would rather have Gordon then Hinrich and we have as much cap space as anybody next summer. If we trade for Hinrich that would mean we would like Hinrich better then Gordon which I'm pretty sure KP is smarter then that IMO.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never thought Gordon quite has the handles to play point guard, and he's a straight up two, not really much of a one at all, except being 6-3.

Hinrich on the other hand has the ability to play both guard spots, and is a much better defender, although not nearly the shooter or scorer that Gordon is. What we're looking for here is complementary skillsets that will fit in well with both Roy and Rudy. Cap'n Kirk seems to fill the bill admirably in my mind.
 
No thnx to Gordon. The guy is a 6'2" SG that would only cut into Rudy's playing time. Kirk makes a lot more sense.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never thought Gordon quite has the handles to play point guard, and he's a straight up two, not really much of a one at all, except being 6-3.

Hinrich on the other hand has the ability to play both guard spots, and is a much better defender, although not nearly the shooter or scorer that Gordon is. What we're looking for here is complementary skillsets that will fit in well with both Roy and Rudy. Cap'n Kirk seems to fill the bill admirably in my mind.
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Gordon is a SG not PG but with Roy he would fit just as I think Bayless would. Gordon/Bayless bring the ball up court and guard the smaller fast PG's but Roy plays the PG position. I have been watching close the last 4-5 games and Roy basically is our PG. Blake/Sergio bring the ball up and guards the PG but Roy is the half court PG. At first I didn't think it would work but I think it will after watching the last few games. I don't care who is our PG Roy is going to demand the ball after it goes over half court and it should be that way unless we could get Paul.
 
Fez said:
No thnx to Gordon. The guy is a 6'2" SG that would only cut into Rudy's playing time. Kirk makes a lot more sense.
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Before I would trade for Hinrich or sign Gordon I would really like to try Roy and Rudy backcourt. I'm not sure it would work all the time but it is our two best guards and both have some PG skills. I still think Bayless might be our future starting PG but not if Roy and Rudy can start and play together.
 
Gordon is not a 2-way player. He's a (very short) SG through and through. His handles are mediocre at best. He'd be a nice spark off the bench though in the mold of a Vinnie Johnson. From what I've read in this thread, Ben's defensive 'ability' is vastly overrated here.
 
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Tortimer said:
Gordon is a SG not PG but with Roy he would fit just as I think Bayless would. Gordon/Bayless bring the ball up court and guard the smaller fast PG's but Roy plays the PG position. I have been watching close the last 4-5 games and Roy basically is our PG. Blake/Sergio bring the ball up and guards the PG but Roy is the half court PG. At first I didn't think it would work but I think it will after watching the last few games. I don't care who is our PG Roy is going to demand the ball after it goes over half court and it should be that way unless we could get Paul.
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But that's just it, Gordon is not a good enough ball handler to consistently bring the ball up under pressure; you're trivializing just how important it is to possess this skill. You don't see teams throw full court presses very often in the NBA, but that's because they know the guy bringing it up is unlikely to cough it up. If a team suspects they face a point guard with iffy handles you get in his grill and dog him the whole way up, hoping he either coughs it up, is forced to call time, or doesn't get across half court in time. Besides that, Gordon has never been much of a defender and that's a skill we're going to need more of than somebody like Gordon who fills it up.

Try to imagine Rudy and Gordon on the court together when Roy is resting, that's a hideous thought defensively.
 
Would we still have cap space if we dealt Raef for Hinrich?
I am totally AGAINST dealing Sergio, he has really showed me something this year. If anything, deal Blake and let Bayless/Sergio battle it out.
 
Денг Гордон said:
This is great. This sets into motion two things. Ben Gordon is the shooting guard of the future for the Bulls and also that they are going after the 2010 plan!

Bulls fans, lets get ready to welcome Lebron to Chicago...well that or Amare...or Dirk...or Bosh....or maybe welcome Chandler back....
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That worked out great for you when Kobe came as a FA...oops.
 
I have a feeling Sergio is going to blow up if he plays in an uptempo system. Sergio would be a great fit in Memphis or New York.

What happened to Kirk? Is he already declining at 27? He was better as a rookie than he is now. I don't get it.
 
blazers would/could, depending on the miles situation, have 10 million or so in cap space even if they DID this deal.
 
Fez said:
I have a feeling Sergio is going to blow up if he plays in an uptempo system. Sergio would be a great fit in Memphis or New York.

What happened to Kirk? Is he already declining at 27? He was better as a rookie than he is now. I don't get it.
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I would add Golden State to that list!
 
Nikolokolus said:
But that's just it, Gordon is not a good enough ball handler to consistently bring the ball up under pressure; you're trivializing just how important it is to possess this skill. You don't see teams throw full court presses very often in the NBA, but that's because they know the guy bringing it up is unlikely to cough it up. If a team suspects they face a point guard with iffy handles you get in his grill and dog him the whole way up, hoping he either coughs it up, is forced to call time, or doesn't get across half court in time. Besides that, Gordon has never been much of a defender and that's a skill we're going to need more of than somebody like Gordon who fills it up.

Try to imagine Rudy and Gordon on the court together when Roy is resting, that's a hideous thought defensively.
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Yeah, maybe your right about Gordon.
 
Tortimer said:
Yeah, maybe your right about Gordon.
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Gordon played 11% of the Bulls' minutes at PG last season, according to 82games.com. 19.5 PER. 3.7 TO per 48 minutes and 6.9 AST per 48. Baron Davis averaged 3.5 TO per 48 at PG last season, too (more assists, obviously).

As someone who's watched Gordon since his rookie season, his turnovers are 70% offensive fouls and bad passes vs. ballhandling. In the half court sets, the Bulls have him driving from left wing across the FT line into double and triple teams constantly (in the SG role). As PG, he's looked perfectly fine to me, though he loses his aggressiveness; or the Bulls ask him to be pass-first in that role. He played it a LOT last season after they traded for Hughes and the two were on court together. If anything, it was a very different thing to see the Bulls' PG not dribble around the court for much of the :24 clock, as Gordon tended to get rid of the ball pretty quick on his touches.

He's had no trouble bringing the ball upcourt against pressure. None.

As mostly a SG, the guy has averaged 3.6, 3.0, and 3.8 assists per game the past three seasons. The SGs who get more APG this season are: Wade, Iverson, Jackson, Roy (you say he's been the PG tho), Carter, Iggy, Johnson, TMac, and Crawford. He's averaging the same APG as Blake in 4 more MPG.

His APG would be higher, IMO, if he wasn't hitting the 29% shooting Tyrus Thomas for the open jumper, or if Deng would find his... Rose suffers from the same problem.

He may not be the ideal compliment to Roy, but Roy is the ideal complement to him. You can pair Roy with just about anyone, but Gordon could be a VERY effective shoot-first player at the PG spot with Roy doing the actual initiation of the offense.

His defense is underrated. Every season since he's been in the league, the Bulls have been one of the top defensive teams in every respect. Except last season, which was a disaster in every respect for everyone. The 82games.com stats show it if you look at past seasons. This season, those numbers may be a record for 82games.com in terms of how low his opponents' PER is (at any position) and the difference in PER. At least the biggest differential I've seen since I've been using the site (several years).

Am I riding Gordon's jockstrap? Maybe a little. He's got a rare ability to simply score the basketball that few have. Otherwise, he suffers from being a 6'1" SG in a league where there are lots of SGs much taller, which causes the Bulls to suffer from playing a very short backcourt. I don't think he's the best player in the league or at his position by any stretch. I do think he's been the star of the Bulls since his rookie season.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Personally, I would rather go to Chicago than New Jersey if I was LeBron.
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Same. The New York and New Jersey talk is completely idiotic.

It's going to be either Cleveland, Chicago, or Miami.

Chicago will be able to offer him the ability to play with Rose, Gordon, Deng, and Asik. Lebron was a Bulls fan growing up.

Miami, they can offer Lebron the opportunity to play with Wade and Beasley.

Lebron's most likely going to stay in the eastern conference if he leaves, but also go to a team where they will be great contenders, and NY/NJ don't really fit that bill.
 
Denny Crane said:
Gordon played 11% of the Bulls' minutes at PG last season, according to 82games.com. 19.5 PER. 3.7 TO per 48 minutes and 6.9 AST per 48. Baron Davis averaged 3.5 TO per 48 at PG last season, too (more assists, obviously).

As someone who's watched Gordon since his rookie season, his turnovers are 70% offensive fouls and bad passes vs. ballhandling. In the half court sets, the Bulls have him driving from left wing across the FT line into double and triple teams constantly (in the SG role). As PG, he's looked perfectly fine to me, though he loses his aggressiveness; or the Bulls ask him to be pass-first in that role. He played it a LOT last season after they traded for Hughes and the two were on court together. If anything, it was a very different thing to see the Bulls' PG not dribble around the court for much of the :24 clock, as Gordon tended to get rid of the ball pretty quick on his touches.

He's had no trouble bringing the ball upcourt against pressure. None.

As mostly a SG, the guy has averaged 3.6, 3.0, and 3.8 assists per game the past three seasons. The SGs who get more APG this season are: Wade, Iverson, Jackson, Roy (you say he's been the PG tho), Carter, Iggy, Johnson, TMac, and Crawford. He's averaging the same APG as Blake in 4 more MPG.

His APG would be higher, IMO, if he wasn't hitting the 29% shooting Tyrus Thomas for the open jumper, or if Deng would find his... Rose suffers from the same problem.

He may not be the ideal compliment to Roy, but Roy is the ideal complement to him. You can pair Roy with just about anyone, but Gordon could be a VERY effective shoot-first player at the PG spot with Roy doing the actual initiation of the offense.

His defense is underrated. Every season since he's been in the league, the Bulls have been one of the top defensive teams in every respect. Except last season, which was a disaster in every respect for everyone. The 82games.com stats show it if you look at past seasons. This season, those numbers may be a record for 82games.com in terms of how low his opponents' PER is (at any position) and the difference in PER. At least the biggest differential I've seen since I've been using the site (several years).

Am I riding Gordon's jockstrap? Maybe a little. He's got a rare ability to simply score the basketball that few have. Otherwise, he suffers from being a 6'1" SG in a league where there are lots of SGs much taller, which causes the Bulls to suffer from playing a very short backcourt. I don't think he's the best player in the league or at his position by any stretch. I do think he's been the star of the Bulls since his rookie season.
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From what I have seen of Gordon he just looked like a great fit to complement Roy. I don't watch a lot of Bulls games though. So, that is why I said maybe to Nikolokolus evaluation of Gordon. I trust KP and if we go after Gordon next year with our cap space I think he will fit.
 
I can't stand Gordon. The guy is a blackhole and makes Travis's shot selection look good. Gordon isn't a team first guy something that is very important to KP and something we should consider in any trade because KP is not bringing anyone in that isn't a team first guy.

Book mark this because I could look like a complete idiot by this time next year.......... ;)
 
SpanishFly said:
I would add Golden State to that list!
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If I were KP - I would look at getting a small trade with GSW for something centered around Sergio for Bellinelli - Sergio is the kind of PG they need there and Bellinelli is a great 3pt shooter that is really built for a half-court catch and shoot system instead of a run and gun system.

Their salaries do not match - so something like Frye for either Randolph or Wright will work - and let's face it - Wright and Randolph are pretty much the same player - so I am not sure why they need them both.
 
andalusian said:
If I were KP - I would look at getting a small trade with GSW for something centered around Sergio for Bellinelli - Sergio is the kind of PG they need there and Bellinelli is a great 3pt shooter that is really built for a half-court catch and shoot system instead of a run and gun system.

Their salaries do not match - so something like Frye for either Randolph or Wright will work - and let's face it - Wright and Randolph are pretty much the same player - so I am not sure why they need them both.
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I think KP should make a big trade first, then a smaller trade later as necessary.
 
Денг Гордон said:
Same. The New York and New Jersey talk is completely idiotic.

It's going to be either Cleveland, Chicago, or Miami.

Chicago will be able to offer him the ability to play with Rose, Gordon, Deng, and Asik. Lebron was a Bulls fan growing up.

Miami, they can offer Lebron the opportunity to play with Wade and Beasley.

Lebron's most likely going to stay in the eastern conference if he leaves, but also go to a team where they will be great contenders, and NY/NJ don't really fit that bill.
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Portland: Oden Aldridge Rudy Roy Bayless Webster Freeland and sergio!
 
I would be happy to have Hinrich here, but really want to see Bayless get some playing time. It's crazy, but we may have all that we need here.
 
It's crazy, but we may have all that we need here
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I'm honestly leaning toward this...

I think our PG situation is set for the future w/ Blake, Sergio, Bayless and Koponen... I think our SF position is set also with Batum, Webster and Outlaw for the future. The only trade i'd make is for a little consolidation to open up some time for players, but that can also take care of itself this off-season.
 
Dallas is looking to make a big move, what about Jason Terry. He's not your typical PG but seems like a really nice fit playing with Roy. Not sure I like it but something to consider.
 
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