New HINRICH RUMOR

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BengalDuck said:
If the best we get for Raef's contract is Hinrich... ouch... Every team in the league is trying to shed salaries simply so they can go after the '03 draft class.
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I kind of see what you are saying, but most of the time expiring contracts never net you a decent player who is still considered to be in his prime. Hinrich at 27 and a truly good defender who is capable of playing off-ball as well as distributing some (and bringing the ball up court under pressure) would have to be considered a very valuable get. The fact of the matter is that finding decent point guards of Hinrich's caliber without a lot of off-court baggage or who aren't in the twilight of their careers is almost unheard of, and he would be a very good value for a washed up big who is doing nothing but collecting a check while sitting on his farm in Iowa.

Hollinger's Scouting report:
2007-08 season: In retrospect, perhaps his shooting year in '06-07 was a fluke. Hinrich hadn't made more than 41.8 percent from the field or beaten 39.0 percent on 3s in any other season; seen in that light, his dip to 41.4 percent and 35.0 percent last season, respectively, shouldn't come as such a shock.

But apparently it shocked Hinrich, because the dude stopped shooting. Hinrich got off to a dreadful start, shooting 33 percent in November, and while his stroke recovered from there he never got back in the groove he hit a year earlier. His response was to shoot markedly less as the year went on, going from 12.3 shot attempts per game before the All-Star break to 8.0 after, while his free-throw attempts halved. By April, Hinrich only took six shots a game.

The one thing he still did well was shoot 2-point jumpers from straight-on. Hinrich made 47.8 percent, the fifth-best mark in the league among players with at least 100 attempts. And on a positive note, he did improve his assist ratio quite a bit, finishing 18th in pure point rating.

Scouting report: Hinrich is an agile defender who can guard either backcourt spot, though he gives up inches at the 2 and tends to get into foul trouble at that position -- his 3.82 fouls per 40 minutes were the most of any point guard who played at least 2,000 minutes. He takes charges, too, earning 28 offensive foul calls last season.

Offensively, Hinrich likes to shoot jumpers going to his right off the screen-and-roll, especially from the left side of the floor, and is also a decent spot-up shooter on 3s. He has good quickness going to his right but tends to pull up rather than go all the way to the basket; additionally, a good show by the big man on the screen-and-roll tends to push him into the "LeBron retreat" all the way back to half court. You can get away with that if you're LeBron; if you're Hinrich all it does is kill the shot clock.

2008-09 outlook: With the Bulls drafting Derrick Rose, it appears that Hinrich's days as a Bull may be numbered. While he could conceivably play shooting guard, it's hard to imagine him filling that position full-time given how foul-prone he is when he plays that spot; besides, the Bulls are grooming another defensive stopper there in Thabo Sefolosha.

Wherever he plays, the key to Hinrich's season is rediscovering the offensive aggressiveness and shooting accuracy that made his 2006-07 campaign such a success. He may need to redefine himself as more of a spot-up shooter and less of a scorer, and he may need to go somewhere that has a quality penetrator and creator at the 2 so he doesn't have to take on that role. Certainly he still has value, but this team may no longer be the best fit for his skills.
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I certainly don't look at John Hollinger as the be all, end all talent scout in the world, but most of his observations seem to back up what we know about him, but that bolded part in particular is why he could end up being such a decent fit alongside Roy and Fernandez, who will probably end up being the real batman and robin of our backcourt in the proceeding years, Hinrich as third fiddle getting 25-30 minutes a night would be fantastic.
 
Our defense sucks, and I mean league wide, we are near or at the bottom. Hinrich would help us in so many ways that people aren't thinking of IMO.

1. Keeps his player from drawing fouls and Joel and Greg.

Portland has let the opponent in the penalty so much this year. Having a defender like Hinrich out there would be huge for us.

2. Allowing us to not double

Portland let's so many wide open 3's happen because they have to help off of their man on penetration

3. More IQ on the floor

I like Blake and Sergio, but neither has the floor IQ that Hinrich does.
 
Mediocre Man said:
Our defense sucks, and I mean league wide, we are near or at the bottom. Hinrich would help us in so many ways that people aren't thinking of IMO.

1. Keeps his player from drawing fouls and Joel and Greg.

Portland has let the opponent in the penalty so much this year. Having a defender like Hinrich out there would be huge for us.

2. Allowing us to not double

Portland let's so many wide open 3's happen because they have to help off of their man on penetration

3. More IQ on the floor

I like Blake and Sergio, but neither has the floor IQ that Hinrich does.
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I agree 100% on the defense part - not sure I see the IQ issue with Blake, specifically and to a lesser extent with Sergio.
 
Not sure how many of you have seen this article in Blazers Edge. This is one reason I'm not sure I like trading Raef this soon especially if Hinrich is out for an extended amount of time. His theory is that a team with a 2010 free agent might be traded if their team is afraid of losing them. Probably a long shot but to early IMO to give up Raefs contract. We might as well wait till trade deadline now that Hinrich is out till January.


Blazers Edge article
You can't swing a cat around the NBA these days without hitting somebody passionately discussing the jockeying for position in the Free Agent Wars of 2010. The list of players possibly coming due that summer is impressive, including:

Paul Pierce

LeBron James

Dirk Nowitzki

Yao Ming

Kobe Bryant

Dwyane Wade

Michael Redd

Amare Stoudemire

Chris Bosh



No wonder fans and media alike are amped up about the possibilities. No wonder some General Managers are apparently trying to clear space to be competitive that summer. There’s just one problem with the whole thing.



It may be too late.



First of all, you have to admit that talent of the kind that’s on that list seldom goes anywhere. There’s a reason for that. Their teams are going to open the pocketbook wider than wide. The Golden Rule of roster management, borne out by some of this summer’s shenanigans, is that you never, ever, EVER let your most valuable stars get anywhere near free agency if you can help it. Chances are you won’t lose them, but how many GM’s are willing to risk their jobs, reputations, and teams on any kind of chance that can be avoided? That means you’re going to see a volley of extensions offered and signed well before the hot months of 2010 roll around. If you don’t see a star signed, then there has to be some doubt in the mind of the team whether they can successfully retain him. If that doubt slips into outright worry and/or certainty (as indicated by a player or his agent) then the team is not going to let the guy walk for nothing. They’ll do everything they can to convince him to commit, but if he won’t they’ll be looking to trade him before the free agency period rolls around.



That’s exactly where the cap space in 2009 comes in. If there’s any doubt as to the future of one of these players sometime during that summer or as the trading deadline approaches, somebody is going to need a trading partner. The more flexible your cap situation is, the more solid of a trading partner you become. People who will come up with cap space in 2010 don’t count for these purposes. You need it in 2009 to do a deal with a team in peril of losing its star.



Am I saying the Blazers are going to get a major superstar in 2009? It’s highly, highly doubtful...a far-fetched scenario. But then any of these players moving is pretty far-fetched. Nevertheless, when you read all of these stories about people clearing space for LeBron in 2010 keep in mind that if that threat is at all real, it’s certainly possible that LeBron’s move won’t be in 2010 at all. If he or any of these players were discontented with their current teams, were willing to stay with a Western contender, and Kevin Pritchard valued them, that move would be more likely to happen a year earlier.
 
The thing that really worries me about this trade, is Hinrich, has been going downhill IMO for the last few years, and in many respects, is in the "Overpaid for amount of production" class of player. I hear the folks saying he could provide more output in a different system, but in the scheme of things, how much different is Chicago's current/past systems than our current system? It's not like they are a Golden State run and gun team. I have not got to see Chicago this year, but in the scheme of things, I don't think their system, and pace of game, is much different than the one we run now. So to me, that really says, you are hoping a change of scenery is what he needs, which may be true. We would just have to trust the GM who has put the team together so far, to make the right decision, which I have no problem with.

So I guess I am saying...if it happens it happens. I will trust KP to make the right move. Hopefully that move, isn't to take a salary dump from another team, unless the player is truly worth it.
 
BTW another article I read said we were dead last in layups and dunks given up last year and at the beginning of this year. That's until the last three games when Oden has played it's down almost 5 less attempts per game.
 
Mediocre Man said:
3. More IQ on the floor

I like Blake and Sergio, but neither has the floor IQ that Hinrich does.
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That is such a broad statement it is difficult to know what you really mean. Kirk, despite playing 5 less minutes than Steve Blake turns the ball over more. Yup, and he's not even playing the point much this season. Small sample size? Well Kirk committed more turnovers per game than Steve Blake last season as well. While I'm not a Kirk basher, he is just way too much of a risk at his contract to be taking on in my opinion.
 
AmirIcon said:
That is such a broad statement it is difficult to know what you really mean. Kirk, despite playing 5 less minutes than Steve Blake turns the ball over more. Yup, and he's not even playing the point much this season. Small sample size? Well Kirk committed more turnovers per game than Steve Blake last season as well. While I'm not a Kirk basher, he is just way too much of a risk at his contract to be taking on in my opinion.
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Turnovers per game can be deceptive. Please note I am not saying trade for him because of it. They need a more useful stat. Like turnover to pass ratio. I know they have turnover to assist. But the thing is, you could have a good turnover to assist ratio, like 2 to 1, and only make 2 assist a night. So it can be deceptive too.
 
Ed O said:
I don't understand your question.

If they cleared a space, they'll be taking one more player back than they send out... if they send out Hinrich and Simmons, they'd take back three players. The question seems to be who they would get from the Blazers in addition to Sergio and Raef.

Ed O.
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I guess my ultimate point wasn't clear, because I didn't actually make the point.

I don't see why they would take on an additional player if the 2 for 2 discussed (Raef + Rodriguez for Hinrich + Simmons) works under the cap. Which it does, I believe. I went a step further, thinking that we might be interested in giving up more value to get more value back. (for example: Raef, Outlaw or Webster, Frye + Rodriguez for Deng, Hinrich + Simmons or something like that. Not sure if that works under the cap, but...something not unlike that.)

In my opinion, Hinrich/Simmons for Raef/Sergio works talent, so why would we give up another player? Possibly though, they disagree and would want more. (Frye?)

The other half of my unmade point, Chicago seems to be VERY interested in getting under the luxury tax threshold. This 2-2 deal gives them almost 2 million more in salary, which makes me think there's a possibility that they would want to make the trade bigger, so they end up cutting some more salary.

(for example, Deng, Hinrich and Simmons total 21 million. If we give them 18 million back...Raef, Sergio, Outlaw and Shavlik Randolph...they cut even more salary and the deal still works.)

I don't know. I'm probably reading too much into this.
 
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AmirIcon said:
That is such a broad statement it is difficult to know what you really mean. Kirk, despite playing 5 less minutes than Steve Blake turns the ball over more. Yup, and he's not even playing the point much this season. Small sample size? Well Kirk committed more turnovers per game than Steve Blake last season as well. While I'm not a Kirk basher, he is just way too much of a risk at his contract to be taking on in my opinion.
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No disrespect, but what would you consider a fair contract for a 27 year old guy who has posted career averages of 14 points and 6 and 1/2 assists per game while also making the All-NBA Defensive 2nd team just over a year ago? At 10 million this year, 9.75 million the next, 9.25 million the year after and finally 8 million the year after that, puts him at just a couple of million above the mid-level exception which is probably perfectly inline for a player of his versatility and production ... the fact that he has a de-escalating contract is gravy.

Let's be clear Hinrich, is not going to come in and be an all-star caliber guard, but he would be a well above average player on offense and very good player on defense for a team that currently has options that are below average (on both ends of the floor) for a starting point guard meant to complement Brandon Roy.
 
This move opens the door for Bayless.

Kirk isn't the player he was two years ago but maybe a change of scenery could help him return to form.

He's a nice stop gap as I think in a year or two Jerryd Bayless will be our starting PG.
 
Not that this means much if anything at all but isn't Kevin Pritchard a Kansas alum just like Hinrich? If so, then Pritchard has followed his career pretty closely. Thats the thought I have stuck in my head right now. If Pritchard has always held Hinrich in high regard, then I would think that not only is this supposed trade proposal likely to have occurred it will more then likely happen at some point this season. Thoughts???
 
I wonder if KP would expand it to include Frye and Tyrus.

Remember, when we landed Channing, KP tried to swing Frye to Chicago for Tryus. According to Courtside soon after the '06 draft.
 
Fez said:
I wonder if KP would expand it to include Frye and Tyrus.

Remember, when we landed Channing, KP tried to swing Frye to Chicago for Tryus. According to Courtside soon after the '06 draft.
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i would be in favor of this deal if it indeed included frye for thomas.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
About this rumor:

Clearly this is mainly about cap space for the Bulls. They committed a lot of money to Hinrich as their PG of the future and now they have a NEW, far better and far cheaper (for now) PG of the future. Here Sergio seems like a throw-in. They don't really need a PG, even a backup. So why should Sergio be our throw-in? I guess he's the cheapest good player that we might give up. But I don't like that, precisely because he's shown that he can really energize the second unit. I'd much rather give up Bayless, quite frankly, because his strength is scoring for himself and we have that. Of course, so do the Bulls, with Ben Gordon. And actually, I think I'd most like to give up Steve Blake, since he's essentially pretty similar to Hinrich, albeit paid half as much.

How about:
Hinrich (with or without Simmons or Aaron Gray - it works either way)
for
Blake, Frye and Diogu

The contracts of Channing and Ike expire at the same time Raef's does, and Blake's contract runs half the length of Hinrich's.

This way we keep Raef's expiring contract AND Sergio. We're still taking on Hinrich's not-so-great contract, so it's a gamble that his last year was an aberration. I say we offer that and say take it or leave it, and I would be happy either way.
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Bingo. If we are going to trade for Hinrich, I really doubt that KP would give up Raef. Raef is just to big of a bargaining chip should one of the big time free agents decides he wants to come to Portland. How embarrassed would KP be if Bron or Boozer says they want to play with Oden, but we can't because we pissed away one of our biggest bargaining chips.
If KP wants Hinrich he can get him with this. http://games.espn.go.com/nba/featur...=1981~1994~2750~2754&teams=22~4~4~4&te=&cash=
 
I really doubt anything from O-live is much of a rumor. I have looked everywhere else and have not read anything about the Blazer and Bulls discussing a trade for Hinrich. I wouldn't think KP would trade Sergio + LaFrenz for Hinrich but you never know. I guess it would give Bayless a chance to be a backup PG until Hinrich came back in a couple months. I think by then we would have to dump Hinrich because Bayless would be ahead of Hinrich and possibly ahead of Blake IMO. I really would try Roy and Rudy or Roy and Bayless as our starting backcourt before trading for Hinrich.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Well the Bulls waiving Nichols to get their roster trimmed to 14 bodies today does certainly seem to indicate that they could be preparing for some kind of move ... I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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The Bulls signed Lindsey Hunter which put them over the cap. Waiving Nichols brought them back under the cap, I presume.

The Bulls have a ridiculous fear of being over the cap by even $1. Fear of not lining the owner's pockets enough.
 
As a longtime Bulls fan and follower of the team....

This trade makes too much sense for both teams.

Hinrich is far better a PG than many of you seem to realize. He'd immediately become your starting PG and play as many minutes as Roy. Your backcourt is really set for the foreseeable future. His stats for last season are down because he had a poor start - consider how good he was to bring his numbers up to where they ended up. That and he's played out of position (at SG) a lot of the time and spends his time chasing around much bigger players who are almost always the opposition's best player.

This season, his PER at PG is 16.6 and that's with those "down" numbers and his minutes cut. Last season his PER was 15.1 on a team that sucked. He's one season removed from 19.1 PER.

Sergio's PER last season was 9.5. Yikes. At least it's up to 14.7 this season. However, I suspect he'd be cut after the season by the Bulls, or at least I hope so. I'm not a big fan.

The reason the Bulls give up their 3rd guard in the rotation is because they are stuck with Larry Hughes' bigger contract (unless you want to trade LaFrentz for him!) and they're right at the LT threshold. They would basically be making two decisions: 1) Rose is the real deal (Hinrich expensive backup), and 2) they would rather lose Hinrich and sign UFA Ben Gordon to a pretty big deal (he is the real deal).

For the Bulls, this is nothing but a salary dump, and of a pretty good 27 year old player. Maybe Portland fans think the team should hold out and see if there's a fire sale on some superstar (like Pau last season), but you might turn blue - and worse - waiting for that to pan out.
 
I talked to someone who works for the Blazers and he said there could be substance to this.

Only time will tell.
 
I understand Denny that your not a big fan of Sergio but I think KP really likes him. At least from everything I have heard. I think KP even put pressure on Nate to play him. I could only see this trade only having some truth to it is if Sergio who said he wanted more time or be traded is a real problem and KP needs to really trade him soon. I doubt the Bulls would cut Sergio there are a few teams that are very interested in Sergio and they could at least trade him for draft picks. Sergio has a very good contract and has played well this year. I have never been a big fan of Sergio but his rookie year I thought he had upside and he didn't play very well last year but has me back to thinking he might be a good PG on a uptempo team.
 
Tortimer said:
I understand Denny that your not a big fan of Sergio but I think KP really likes him. At least from everything I have heard. I think KP even put pressure on Nate to play him. I could only see this trade only having some truth to it is if Sergio who said he wanted more time or be traded is a real problem and KP needs to really trade him soon. I doubt the Bulls would cut Sergio there are a few teams that are very interested in Sergio and they could at least trade him for draft picks. Sergio has a very good contract and has played well this year. I have never been a big fan of Sergio but his rookie year I thought he had upside and he didn't play very well last year but has me back to thinking he might be a good PG on a uptempo team.
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The Bulls are already deep at the G spots. They'd have a short rotation of Rose, Gordon, Hughes, and Hunter - making Sergio their 5th guard.

Again, the only reason the Bulls do this is because of that depth, they can't afford to pay Hughes and Hinrich big bucks to sit as reserves, and once Hinrich went out with his injury the team has beaten Dallas and then Indy (in a blowout) with Gordon taking over as the team's goto guy. Gordon is now at 21.3 PPG on 47% shooting/41% 3pt and near 4 assists/game next to Rose and is leading the team in scoring.

The Bulls and Gordon could not come to terms on a contract extension this off-season because the Bulls did not have enough room under the LT threshold to sign both him and Deng. This trade would give them the ability to match any offer for Gordon (though he can sign anywhere he wants) and even pay him more than any other team should they choose. Or minus LaFrentz (or Hinrich) and Gordon, they'd have a lot of room to be a player this summer.

Gordon's 82games.com stats are stunning as well. 50 PER at PG, 21.2 at SG, and 24.7 at SF in the smallball lineups. Even more stunning are his defensive numbers - opposing PG's PER at 8.1, SG's at 9.4, and SF at 4.6.

This deal would mark the end of the Hinrich era in Chicago - "the right way to play" - and the admission by Paxson that he picked the wrong guy to sign to the big deal (big being $10M/season) in Hinrich over Gordon.
 
Tortimer said:
Did you hear Rice say this on the radio?
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I'm pretty sure he's been saying Kirk Hinrich will be traded by Nov 15th or something.

My post was more sarcastic than anything.

Kirk is hurt now though.
 
I'm warming up to the idea of this. I think some people are over value Raef-Laferentz's-expiring-contract.

We're essentially getting Hinrich, who will in his prime, 28, for a backup PG who we probably aren't going to keep.

He's basically a better version of Steve Blake who fits with the current team very well.

I wouldn't be upset if this went down... there aren't too many marquee names that are realistically out there this year or next summer now that guys like Paul, William and Deng got locked up.
 
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