OT New NFL Kneeling Rule

[dviss1]

Fuck the NFL.

Fuck exercising our 1st amendment rights?

I'm sure you'd like your 1st amendment rights infringed upon when you want to express yourself too huh?

Oh wait...

I guess in your eyes those rights shouldn't be afforded to certain people....

 

[Gronk Brady]

Fuck exercising our 1st amendment rights?

I'm sure you'd like your 1st amendment rights infringed upon when you want to express yourself too huh?

Oh wait...

I guess in your eyes those rights shouldn't be afforded to certain people....

Just because you have the right to do it doesn’t make it right... do you not care that it might offend military families who lost loved ones fighting for our freedom? Do you think there is another country with more freedom and opportunity than United States? And do you think anyone is talking about the original message of police brutality or has it been lost because of the outrage of the flag issue? There are so many other platforms and resources bring awareness to issues.

 

[dviss1]

Just because you have the right to do it doesn’t make it right... do you not care that it might offend military families who lost loved ones fighting for our freedom? Do you think there is another country with more freedom and opportunity than United States? And do you think anyone is talking about the original message of police brutality or has it been lost because of the outrage of the flag issue? There are so many other platforms and resources bring awareness to issues.

My cousin is in Afghanistan as we speak. He knows full well what he's fighting for.

The right to be ABLE to kneel to a flag is an AMAZING right. You'd get killed in other countries. We should CELEBRATE the fact that in our country we can say hey, DON'T TRUST GOVERNMENT.

It's really funny how the same MFs in here who don't trust government trust it's enforcers....

It makes no sense...

 

[Gronk Brady]

My cousin is in Afghanistan as we speak. He knows full well what he's fighting for.

The right to be ABLE to kneel to a flag is an AMAZING right. You'd get killed in other countries. We should CELEBRATE the fact that in our country we can say hey, DON'T TRUST GOVERNMENT.

It's really funny how the same MFs in here who don't trust government trust it's enforcers....

It makes no sense...

You didn’t answer even one of my questions... just a bunch of excuses and deflection

 

[blue9]

My cousin is in Afghanistan as we speak. He knows full well what he's fighting for.

The profits of the military industrial complex?

 

[chzbrgr]

Just because you have the right to do it doesn’t make it right... do you not care that it might offend military families who lost loved ones fighting for our freedom? Do you think there is another country with more freedom and opportunity than United States? And do you think anyone is talking about the original message of police brutality or has it been lost because of the outrage of the flag issue? There are so many other platforms and resources bring awareness to issues.

You realize kneeling as a form of protest was Nate holder’s idea too, right? He is an ex navy seal who thought it was acceptable and respectful. And since when is it a sign of disrespect to kneel? You seem to have very strong feelings about how they should show the government all this deference and respect but it will not show them any. This is the most powerful platform afforded to young black men these days, shame on you if you think they shouldn’t use that to save lives and better their communities.

 

[Gronk Brady]

You realize kneeling as a form of protest was Nate holder’s idea too, right? He is an ex navy seal who thought it was acceptable and respectful. And since when is it a sign of disrespect to kneel? You seem to have very strong feelings about how they should show the government all this deference and respect but it will not show them any. This is the most powerful platform afforded to young black men these days, shame on you if you think they shouldn’t use that to save lives and better their communities.

Again, didn’t answer my questions

 

[dviss1]

You didn’t answer even one of my questions... just a bunch of excuses and deflection

I've been over this. I don't care about your questions just like you don't give a fuck about WHY they're kneeling.

 

[SportsAndWhine]

Just because you have the right to do it doesn’t make it right... do you not care that it might offend military families who lost loved ones fighting for our freedom? Do you think there is another country with more freedom and opportunity than United States? And do you think anyone is talking about the original message of police brutality or has it been lost because of the outrage of the flag issue? There are so many other platforms and resources bring awareness to issues.

1 - if they’re so sensitive about NOT talking about police brutality and systemic racism that they’re offended by a person kneeling they’re probably garbage. No I don’t care.

2 - upward mobility, life expectancy, and wage inequality are all superior in numerous countries. How about Norway, where all the best immigrants should come from?

3 - the people kneeling keep trying to talk about police brutality but a bunch of garbage racist snowflakes have deflected away from the real issue because it might involve them self-assessing their own racism.

Again, the people kneeling are right to kneel and the people screaming about it are garbage humans with a lot of internalized racism.

 

[blue9]

1 - if they’re so sensitive about NOT talking about police brutality and systemic racism that they’re offended by a person kneeling they’re probably garbage. No I don’t care.

2 - upward mobility, life expectancy, and wage inequality are all superior in numerous countries. How about Norway, where all the best immigrants should come from?

3 - the people kneeling keep trying to talk about police brutality but a bunch of garbage racist snowflakes have deflected away from the real issue because it might involve them self-assessing their own racism.

Again, the people kneeling are tight to kneel and the people screaming about it are garbage humans with a lot of internalized racism.

Boom.

 

[dviss1]

The profits of the military industrial complex?

Fair enough. I'm totally with you on this.

I'm really using their own language against them. They claim their fighting for our freedoms.

One of those freedoms is freedom of expression.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Here Gronk--even though I'm not a fan of the flag protests, I'll answer your questions directly

Do you not care that it might offend military families who lost loved ones fighting for our freedom?

Not particularly. If people interpret kneeling--genuflection, a universal sign of respect--as disrespectful, and choose to be offended by it, I can't control their misinterpretation. I am not obligated to alter my behavior solely because someone is/might be offended by it. It's the same as the recent video of the woman suggesting that any word including the word "man" should be eliminated because it might offend people upset by patriarchy. There's consideration, and then there's absurdity. People being offended by kneeling before the flag qualifies as the latter in my mind.

Do you think there is another country with more freedom and opportunity than United States?

Probably not, but that's really beside the point of the anthem protests. The flag doesn't only stand for freedom and opportunity, but also liberty and justice. Many in the black community feel that they are not receiving liberty and justice regularly from the government, and fortunately for them, this country affords them the freedom and opportunity to communicate that in this way.

And do you think anyone is talking about the original message of police brutality or has it been lost because of the outrage of the flag issue?

Yes, many still are. Perhaps the message of the protest is dampened or obfuscated by discussion about the manner of protest, but it still remains in the public consciousness, and much moreso than if the protests weren't occurring at all.

 

[Gronk Brady]

I've been over this. I don't care about your questions just like you don't give a fuck about WHY they're kneeling.

Get angry because answers don’t support your stance... nice

 

[blue9]

Fair enough. I'm totally with you on this.

I'm really using their own language against them. They claim their fighting for our freedoms.

One of those freedoms is freedom of expression.

Oh, I get it. It's a sound argument. I just strongly disagree with the idea that our military is being used to fight for our freedom. The military has unfortunately been turned into a tool to safeguard and increase corporate profits - and they do so largely using the lives of the poor.

 

[Gronk Brady]

1 - if they’re so sensitive about NOT talking about police brutality and systemic racism that they’re offended by a person kneeling they’re probably garbage. No I don’t care.

2 - upward mobility, life expectancy, and wage inequality are all superior in numerous countries. How about Norway, where all the best immigrants should come from?

3 - the people kneeling keep trying to talk about police brutality but a bunch of garbage racist snowflakes have deflected away from the real issue because it might involve them self-assessing their own racism.

Again, the people kneeling are tight to kneel and the people screaming about it are garbage humans with a lot of internalized racism.

1. Minimizing the feelings of someone with a different background and point of view as you when that person has contributed way more to our freedom than you ever will... because if it’s not your view it’s wrong? No gratitude in life and full of excuses, you must have a sad soul.

2. Move to Norway

3. Stereotyping and accusing everyone that disagrees with kneeling during the anthem as racist... pathetic

 

[blue9]

1. Minimizing the feelings of someone with a different background and point of view as you when that person has contributed way more to our freedom than you ever will... because if it’s not your view it’s wrong? No gratitude in life and full of excuses, you must have a sad soul.

2. Move to Norway

3. Stereotyping and accusing everyone that disagrees with kneeling during the anthem as racist... pathetic

When the foundation of your argument is built on a fallacy, your entire argument is null and void.

 

[Gronk Brady]

When the foundation of your argument is built on a fallacy, your entire argument is null and void.

What’s the fallacy?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Is kneeling during the national anthem any more disrespectful than the TV networks using the national anthem time to cut away and air more commercials? Very rarely do they show the anthem during TV broadcasts.

 

[blue9]

What’s the fallacy?

That the military is fighting for our freedom.
That if anyone thinks another country is better than the US, they should move there.
That people who are against kneeling aren't being hugely hypocritical (at best).
Your questions are irrelevant. They are the same tactic that the "right" is using to re-frame the act/discussion into something it's not.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I think the issue is that Republicans have convinced there base that minorities are after all there stuff, and want to suppress there freedom's. Democrats have convinced there base that white people don't want them here. Shades of truth to all of it, but it's become political rather than about fighting for the right for everyone to be treated equally, they're fighting a political battle over who can get votes. It's made it incredibly hard to have conversations about it, without being called a racist, or a snowflake or a lot of things.
I can understand why some white family on an average salary who worked hard went to school, and is struggling to get by would look at what they perceive to be a much more successful individual (an athlete, or Hollywood actor, or whomever), telling them they're garbage, because they would like to just watch a football game or be entertained by a movie without getting into the more serious dark side of the country, that most of them feel like they have no power over the problems. Or that the white family has it so much better than them because they're white.
I also understand that to a lot of individuals they feel like it's their best (and maybe only) platform to bring up those issues, because though progress has been made, there are still problems. I say they should protest in whatever legal and peaceful manner they see fit, if it's kneeling than fine, if it's something else than that is good too. If it offends someone, even a military person than maybe they should take that opportunity to think about where there at in life and why it offends them. If someone telling me that they see an issue with police brutality, or that they don't get treated as well as I do because of their skin color, doesn't at least make me think about what it must be like to walk in there shoes than I have a problem.

It's sad that the message got turned what it has, because it was never anti-american, or anti-a piece of waving cloth with stars on it. It was about wanting to talk about how do they make their communities safer, and people safer.

 

[Gronk Brady]

Is kneeling during the national anthem any more disrespectful than the TV networks using the national anthem time to cut away and air more commercials? Very rarely do they show the anthem during TV broadcasts.

We can spend all day talking about if we personally think it’s disrespectful... my point is, if even one military family who lost a loved one feels it’s disrespectful, then players shouldn’t do it, because those families feelings should matter as they have sacrificed for our freedom. It’s not like it’s helping the cause anyways, just causing a distraction. I’m very supportive of police reform... at the same time I am greatful for the military that has afforded my family freedom and opportunity to make a good life as immigrants that came here with nothing... players have many resources at their hands to make a difference... this seems to be more about ego and not being told what to do, which is sad

 

[PtldPlatypus]

We can spend all day talking about if we personally think it’s disrespectful... my point is, if even one military family who lost a loved one feels it’s disrespectful, then players shouldn’t do it, because those families feelings should matter as they have sacrificed for our freedom.

Are there any other groups who should get to determine what is or is not considered acceptable expression, or is it just military families who deserve this consideration?

 

[SportsAndWhine]

1. Minimizing the feelings of someone with a different background and point of view as you when that person has contributed way more to our freedom than you ever will... because if it’s not your view it’s wrong? No gratitude in life and full of excuses, you must have a sad soul.

2. Move to Norway

3. Stereotyping and accusing everyone that disagrees with kneeling during the anthem as racist... pathetic

1 - the military is a job and you don’t get to pick your customers.

2 - I have put in a job request for my company’s European HQ, but honestly there’s strong competition for the open positions.

3 - sorry you don’t like the answers to your jingoistic junk questions.

 

[blue9]

my point is, if even one military family who lost a loved one feels it’s disrespectful, then players shouldn’t do it,

And that's asinine. I cannot control how you feel about something - that's only something you can control. But you* want to control the actions of others because you're unable to control how you feel and react to those external actions?

*Maybe not "you", but the hypothetical family you're so concerned about.

 

[Gronk Brady]

Are there any other groups who should get to determine what is or is not considered acceptable expression, or is it just military families who deserve this consideration?

Is there no other way to bring awareness to issues than kneeling during the anthem? Also, do you think this method has worked or made things worse?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

We can spend all day talking about if we personally think it’s disrespectful... my point is, if even one military family who lost a loved one feels it’s disrespectful, then players shouldn’t do it, because those families feelings should matter as they have sacrificed for our freedom. It’s not like it’s helping the cause anyways, just causing a distraction. I’m very supportive of police reform... at the same time I am greatful for the military that has afforded my family freedom and opportunity to make a good life as immigrants that came here with nothing... players have many resources at their hands to make a difference... this seems to be more about ego and not being told what to do, which is sad

That's a pretty low bar to set, if it offends one family it shouldn't be done.

You keep mentioning freedom and the sacrifices made to keep it. Well one of those freedoms is the right to protest.

On the protest scale kneeling has got to be the most inoffensive form of protest one could do.

And I'm not sure what ego has to do with quietly taking a knee during the anthem. It's not like they're running out there and setting the flag on fire or preventing anyone else from honoring the flag and sing the anthem. As far as protests go that's pretty much a nothing burger.

 

[Haakzilla]

...so I guess they compromised

"NFL owners are on the verge of approving a new national anthem policy that requires players to stand if they are on the field during the performance but gives them the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer, sources told ESPN the Magazine's Seth Wickersham on Wednesday.

The new policy subjects teams to a fine if a player or any other team personnel do not show appropriate respect for the anthem. That includes any attempt to sit or kneel, as dozens of players have done during the past two seasons. Those teams will also have the option to fine any team personnel, including players, for the infraction.

A vote took place at the conclusion of the league's spring meeting and was unanimously approved by the NFL's 32 owners."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23582533/nfl-owners-approve-new-national-anthem-policy

 

[Gronk Brady]

...so I guess they compromised

"NFL owners are on the verge of approving a new national anthem policy that requires players to stand if they are on the field during the performance but gives them the option to remain in the locker room if they prefer, sources told ESPN the Magazine's Seth Wickersham on Wednesday."

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/23582533/nfl-owners-approve-new-national-anthem-policy

I feel like this is a fair compromise...

 

[blue9]

Is there no other way to bring awareness to issues than kneeling during the anthem? Also, do you think this method has worked or made things worse?

We're talking about it, aren't we? So obviously it has helped tremendously...despite the best efforts of the "right" to re-frame the discussion.

I put "right" in quotes to denote I'm merely using it as short-hand. I do not believe everyone on the conservative side of the political spectrum aligns with the hypocrites looking to distract from the real issue(s) at hand.

 

[Gronk Brady]

We're talking about it, aren't we? So obviously it has helped tremendously...despite the best efforts of the "right" to re-frame the discussion.

I put "right" in quotes to denote I'm merely using it as short-hand. I do not believe everyone on the conservative side of the political spectrum aligns with the hypocrites looking to distract from the real issue(s) at hand.

Actually no one is talking about police brutality, it’s become a discussion about the flag instead... how has this helped tremendously? What accomplishments have come from this? Seems like things have got worse