Nocioni and Hughes?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Jul 24 2008, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Netted, my fundamental disagreement with your plan is your contention that Noc can be a full time starter at SF. That makes the entire plan flawed to me.</div>
You believe he can be counted on for at least 20 mpg. What's the difference if he starts?

I'd rather have Hughes mainly back-up VC and be a 6th man. However, there is flexibility with this group for different line-ups.
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However, that 20 minutes includes a lot of time at PF. Not that it proves anything, but I checked 82games.com and looked at Noc's last 3 seasons. His PER was significantly better at PF than at SF.

Additionally, you don't want the attitude problem that will occur with Hughes coming off the bench
 
If you don't see Nocioni as a SF, but more of a PF then I can see you not liking the trade. He'd basically be a duplicate of Najera. I don't see it that way. I think he is a SF that can happen to play some PF.

With Deng on that team I wonder about the accuracy of the PER. Which was really the PF and which the SF?

I don't think Hughes gives a damn anymore how he is used as long as he is given a chance to play. Everyone grows up at some point and I think he's done a lot of growing since his brother died.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If you don't see Nocioni as a SF, but more of a PF then I can see you not liking the trade. He'd basically be a duplicate of Najera. I don't see it that way. I think he is a SF that can happen to play some PF.

With Deng on that team I wonder about the accuracy of the PER. Which was really the PF and which the SF?

I don't think Hughes gives a damn anymore how he is used as long as he is given a chance to play. Everyone grows up at some point and I think he's done a lot of growing since his brother died.</div>

I just read the article and it seems like Hughes has no more heart and desire for basketball, he even admitted it




How much of your experience (in Cleveland) was tainted by the death of your brother, Justin?
A lot. I realize it every day that a part of me is gone. I have to move on, knowing it's not going to be easy. Playing basketball doesn't make everything better. Making money doesn't make everything better. That's really what I'm dealing with now.

Do you feel the same way toward basketball as you always did? Or did some of that change because you suffered such a tragic loss?
To be honest, some of the emotional side of playing basketball has suffered. Sometimes it is tough to be excited or be happy. Different things may take you back to a place where you were before, as far as the memories. My thing is, I know I can play. It's just having fun doing that and getting better in my personal situation and moving on from there.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Jul 24 2008, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I... like it.

Why can Simmons be traded, is it because it's a straight up swap?</div>
Yup. Simmons for Noc and the rest for Hughes.
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And again here.

Is this thread too long to read through?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 01:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>It's all about 2010.</div>

It's this reason the Nets shouldn't take Nocioni.

http://sportstwo.com/NBA/LeagueSalaries#jump_NJN
(I know I need to update the salaries, but do the math and Nocioni kills their 2010 options)

The Nets have a minimum of $39M in salary committed now in 2010.

You also have to add in a couple million for draft picks, since the Nets have their 09 and 2010 picks plus Dallas' 2010 pick. Yes, they can get rid of those, but it's very conceivable one could be a high lottery pick you wouldn't want to get rid of.

So take the $39M and add $7M to it, and you get $46M. The cap isn't certain, of course, but we can guess it to be around $63.5. That gives the Nets just under $17M.

While that sounds like a lot, it's not a maximum offer to a guy like Lebron, and if he were to come, it'd mean a significant pay cut. Talk all you want about a credible threat for a sign and trade, but the less you can offer the less credible that threat is.

If you're paying out a couple more million to your 2009 and or 2010 first rounders, you've reduced your cap space even more. And that's gonna make someone like Lebron completely unfeasible.

So consider it this way. You can have Nocioni or you can keep those three 1st round picks. If you try to do both, you'll eat up too much cap space.

I think it's a no brainer to keep the picks. If someone offered 3 #1 picks for Nocioni, as a Bulls fan, I'd wet myself with glee. Second, if you really need to, you can get rid of the picks pretty easily. Getting rid of Nocioni in a year or two to clear cap space is more difficult.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Netted @ Jul 24 2008, 03:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Jul 24 2008, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I... like it.

Why can Simmons be traded, is it because it's a straight up swap?</div>
Yup. Simmons for Noc and the rest for Hughes.
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Screw the 2nd trade. Why not just do Simmons for Noc?

I'm not a big fan of Larry since he left Washington. He really hasn't been the same player.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Jul 24 2008, 11:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the Bulls do Simmons for Noc?</div>

If they take a good, long look at their team and realize that the long term contract hurts them more than it helps...possibly.
 
My only issue with this is Larry Hughes. He's a good defensive player, and can score if given shot attempts, but what about his attitude. Ghoti complained about Marcus Williams poisoning the rookies... is Larry Hughes a player that would do the same? I've heard he has issues, but I forget if that was just on the court or not.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lukewarmplay @ Jul 24 2008, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Do you think the Bulls do Simmons for Noc?</div>

No.

The price you'd pay to get Noc is taking back Hughes' contract. I happen to like Hughes so I don't see it like you're getting some scrub with a big contract.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Jul 24 2008, 09:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>My only issue with this is Larry Hughes. He's a good defensive player, and can score if given shot attempts, but what about his attitude. Ghoti complained about Marcus Williams poisoning the rookies... is Larry Hughes a player that would do the same? I've heard he has issues, but I forget if that was just on the court or not.</div>

The guy was starting PG on a finals team 2 years ago. Played out of position, maybe griped about that a little. I've not heard that he has issues, though he's said his ultimate goal isn't necessarily to win a championship.
 
This is OT but I was just going over team salaries and I noticed the Spurs future cap structure. They have a lot of expiring contracts in time for the 2010 free agency. Tony Parker and Tim Duncan are the main guys they have signed at that time and will probably have around 30 million in cap space available. Joining up with Duncan and Parker for a championship run could be real attractive for some free agents at that point. They could be the team to make a real splash in 2010 in the free agent market. Crazy.
 
The Bulls are currently sweating the luxury tax, so adding Simmons' $9.9M for Noc's $8M when we're trying to avoid the tax and pay Deng and Gordon is unlikely.

We could work around it a bit by sending Nocioni and Cedric Simmons ($1.7M). I'd probably still do it to clear cap room in 2010, although, as I've said, I don't think the Nets should do it. Especially after just signing up two SF's (Najera and Hayes) and being crowded at the 4 as well.
 
I say no on Nocioni.

Why should we bail them out? He is good but we have too many SF and PF.
 
i dont think the lakers want hughes... NOR noc
 
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