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Some random blogger confirms your worst fears?
 
we shall see in november
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 01:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Some random blogger confirms your worst fears?</div>

Tell me, do you think CDR dropped because people forgot he was still on the board? And how does the best center in the Draft drop from #3 or #4 to #10? There are flaws in their games. (Boston Herald reporting tomorrow that Celts passed on him because of his horrible defense.)

He ain't random, either. He has a good reputation.

Here's what will happen...again. The Nets will pump the shit out of these guys at the presser. Then, Frank wont play them initially because they are all bad on defense. Lopez is okay, but he ain't NBA-ready. Frank will then take the brunt of the criticism.

Same ol, same ol.

Nets got great draft grades in 2005 for a draft that was a total disaster. Wright dropped from a consensus #12 to #15, in part because big men were surprisingly picked early, but also because he isnt that athletic.

I actually think Thursday was not a good night for the franchise. I think they are going cheap (they have to) but selling it as something else: a way to conserve cap space for Lebron. Acquiring Yi was a way to make money for Brooklyn, not a way to improve the team, at least in the short run.
 
Wasnt Monta Ellis taken at 40 as well? GM's are wrong all the time


Even TONY ROMO himself went undrafted, doesnt mean anything




Although Ill always wonder what could of been w/ Bayless. He reminds me of Monta. And hes already said hes got a chip on his shoulder.....
 
I've pretty much agreed with a lot of that blog. Bucks did fleece us (I still hate that RJ trade). While I love getting Yi, I hate that we had to lose RJ for it.

About the draft, I think we did decent. If we couldn't get Danilo, I was hoping we could deal the #10. Lopez isn't better then Boone or Krstic. Will we regret passing on Bayless for him? Possibly. I love the CDR pick because at least it's a cheap risk if he doesn't pan out. Ryan Anderson, meh. I'm not happy we passed on Arthur for him. That is for sure, going to bite us in the ass.

Mostly, I am not sure we will ever get LBJ and I hate the idea we're pissing away the next 2 seasons in the hopes of winning the Free Agent lottery that summer of 2010. It didn't work for Chicago and we don't have the weather Orlando (2000) boasts
 
Lopez is better than them. He has an offensive game, Boone does not. And he plays solid-ish defense, Krstic does not.

We didnt get a stud, hes not Dwight Howard. But he should be a solid center for years. Ive said about on the level of Ilguaskas.

Im still not sure about Anderson, if we wanted a shooter, why not Lee, a shooter at an actual position of need. Unless we trade Sean for Bellineli, which would then make some sense of things.
 
I think CDR dropped because what he is good at doesn't translate to the format of the workouts and his measurables were weak across the board. The guy is a great basketball player.

Lopez was taken because he fills a need for the Nets. I'm no fan of his, but they really need someone who can score down low and Lopez can do that on day one. Just that one skill will have a big effect on the team, and Frank knows how to use him to full advantage. The other parts of his game will take time to develop. He is physically ready for the NBA at 20, though, so it might not be that long until things come around.

The media and the casual fan thinks Milwaukee "fleeced" the Nets, but people who had to endure watching RJ play every minute of last season are wondering how the Nets got a #6 overall pick and the requisite cap relief they sought for him. His attitude was hurting the team and it was time for him to move on.

I also happen to think Yi is a good prospect, and do not understand what he did last year to dispel that. He played very well for 25 games, then got tired and eventually injured. He was a skinny 19-year-old. It's not going to be instant superstardom for him. To tell you the truth, what I saw, I thought was terrific. He was much, much better than I expected. And that's just his benefit on the court, which is obviously not all he brings to the table.
 
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=428492

Draft Grades: D

New Jersey Nets. Is it a requirement for the Nets to have twins on their team? After finally moving the limited Jason Collins they draft Stanford twin Brook Lopez. After trading away Richard Jefferson, that's not good news. They're giving up for now with Lopez and Ryan Anderson, taken later in the first, and Yi Jianlian, acquired in the Jefferson trade. So much for the Nenad Krstic era. The contest becomes them against the Knicks to build the team that most will appeal to LeBron James in the summer of 2010. You had to laugh at "analyst" Mark Jackson, who happens to work for the Nets, applauding their draft. What a mess they've become.

-Sam Smith
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think CDR dropped because what he is good at doesn't translate to the format of the workouts and his measurables were weak across the board. The guy is a great basketball player.

Lopez was taken because he fills a need for the Nets. I'm no fan of his, but they really need someone who can score down low and Lopez can do that on day one. Just that one skill will have a big effect on the team, and Frank knows how to use him to full advantage. The other parts of his game will take time to develop. He is physically ready for the NBA at 20, though, so it might not be that long until things come around.</div>

The issue with a lack of athleticism tends to come at the defensive end of the floor. Both these guys should be smart, efficient scorers, but both of them might not be quick enough to guard players on the other end.

We acquired four major prospects the other night: Yi, Lopez, Anderson and CDR. Are any of them going to be even average defenders on an NBA level?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Jun 29 2008, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think CDR dropped because what he is good at doesn't translate to the format of the workouts and his measurables were weak across the board. The guy is a great basketball player.

Lopez was taken because he fills a need for the Nets. I'm no fan of his, but they really need someone who can score down low and Lopez can do that on day one. Just that one skill will have a big effect on the team, and Frank knows how to use him to full advantage. The other parts of his game will take time to develop. He is physically ready for the NBA at 20, though, so it might not be that long until things come around.</div>

The issue with a lack of athleticism tends to come at the defensive end of the floor. Both these guys should be smart, efficient scorers, but both of them might not be quick enough to guard players on the other end.

We acquired four major prospects the other night: Yi, Lopez, Anderson and CDR. Are any of them going to be even average defenders on an NBA level?
</div>

The lack of defense is an issue. Also, FYI, so is Yi's age. His passport says he is 20 but logic dictates he is more likely 23. Chinese have a verified history of faking kids ages so they can win international youth competitions. To accept that Yi is only 20 means you also have to accept that he was the Chinese Basketball Association ROY at age 15.
 
Better news if hes 22-25, like I believe he is

We have enough kids




One thing I will miss about Kidd was getting the best out of people. I wonder what he could of done for Yi, since hes such a unique prospect
 
we'll see. I thought the Nets could get a package like OUtlaw plus the #13 plus crap from Portland for RJ. Even if it was a pick a few years down the road, instead of this year. Is last year's #6 pick worth a late lottery plus a former 20-something pick who is a decent rotation player? Was the RJ deal comparable to the Ray Allen deal last year, or did they do a little better? I guess THAT depends on Simmons, who I don't know much about.

As far as the draft goes . . . we're going to have to trust the Nets' scouting on Ryan Anderson. As for CDR, typically only one or at most two second-round picks EVER become solid rotation players--forget about the Michael Redd and Gil Arenas stardom for a minute--and he has as good a chance as anyone taken in that round this year. THe only second-round pick the Nets have drafted this decade who has done anything has been Scalabrine, and I don't consider him a "solid rotational player." If he doesn't work out, whatever. I'm MUCH happier with CDR than some Eurostash, who we'll never see again. I don't care WHY he fell, so long as he isn't a cross-dressing crack-smoking class failing horse thief.

Then there's Lopez. Well, we knew that there was a consensus top-ten in the draft, and the Nets were selecting tenth. As expected, they had a choice of two because Charlotte did something unexpected (I thought it would be Darrell Arthur, to tell the truth). So, the choice was Lopez vs. Bayless. Nothing else matters. Did they choose right? We'll find out. Few of us really like Lopez--and I hope he isn't as much of an idiot as he sounds.

Defense . . . we'll see. They rid themselves of RJ; Boki will be gone; the remaining defensive "holes" on the team will be Krstic (who may also be gone), Marcus, and Swift. Will Ryan Anderson, Lopez, and CDR be as bad as those guys?

Yes, the Nets are in full let's-be-thrifty-and-trick-the fans mode. Everyone thought they'd be bad seven years ago, also, with a bevy of rookies and role players. Let's see. There will be another deal or two, possibly a sign and trade for a wing. They're beter than they were when they tore apart their core four or so years ago.
 
honestly, i didnt like our draft either. i was sure we'd pick up bayless and was shocked when we took lopez. right now, i wish we had known arthur was going to be there at 21 so we could have drafted bayless at 10. i have no idea about ryan anderson, part of me thinks he can be good but sometimes i fear he'll become scott padget or steve novak. lopez, i just dont kno. im torn between him. cdr was excellent value as a second rounder
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 29 2008, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>East Coach Bias makes some interesting points...about Lopez and CDR not having the requisite quickness for the NBA and how the Bucks fleeced the Nets.

http://theeastcoastbias.wordpress.com/2008...nba-draft-2008/

I find this both refreshing (players don't drop because they're really good) and depressing (it confirms my worst fears).</div>

Ok...where to start without trying to sound like a complete homer.....

This guy obviously didn't watch the Nets for any of the last 2 seasons.

Krstic? are you kidding me? When was the last time he was healthy? Your willing to put all your chips on a guy whos barely played in two seasons and hasn't been able to hit a shot since Kidd left? Yea, i know Kidd's on the decline but the reality is that Kidd makes big men. Plus he's got to be one of the softest centers i've ever seen, just bad def. all around.

Listen i'm not saying Brook Lopez is gonna be the come all end all for us but i don't think he's going to bust either. But to say that our big men had a better game last year is completely rediculous. Krstic hasn't been close to old form, he's slow, and soft. Josh Boone (who i do like) is a good big to have coming in off the bench, he'll get you a double double by cleaning up but you cant actually dump the ball to him down low, and Swat needs to develope and put on weight before he can even be in this conversation. (Swat is my fav. player on the Nets by the way lol) Time will only tell how Lopez does.

As for the RJ trade, yea, no shit RJ is the better player by far. But we'r mediocre at best and change is needed. I think THorn and Kiki are doing it right. If your going to rebuild, you completely blow it up, you dont only go halfway. Again i can't say if Yi is going to be good or not but at least we have room to make moves now.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 29 2008, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ly_yng @ Jun 29 2008, 03:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I think CDR dropped because what he is good at doesn't translate to the format of the workouts and his measurables were weak across the board. The guy is a great basketball player.

Lopez was taken because he fills a need for the Nets. I'm no fan of his, but they really need someone who can score down low and Lopez can do that on day one. Just that one skill will have a big effect on the team, and Frank knows how to use him to full advantage. The other parts of his game will take time to develop. He is physically ready for the NBA at 20, though, so it might not be that long until things come around.</div>

The issue with a lack of athleticism tends to come at the defensive end of the floor. Both these guys should be smart, efficient scorers, but both of them might not be quick enough to guard players on the other end.

We acquired four major prospects the other night: Yi, Lopez, Anderson and CDR. Are any of them going to be even average defenders on an NBA level?
</div>

The lack of defense is an issue. Also, FYI, so is Yi's age. His passport says he is 20 but logic dictates he is more likely 23. Chinese have a verified history of faking kids ages so they can win international youth competitions. To accept that Yi is only 20 means you also have to accept that he was the Chinese Basketball Association ROY at age 15.
</div>

His body looks 20.

The defense is an issue, but all four players have a chance to be decent to good defenders.

CDR was an above average defender in college. He has good height and he will fill out eventually. He's not a stopper, but I'm not too concerned with him because of his superior anticipation and work ethic. He won't let himself be a bad defender.

Anderson was a good defender in college. He seems like he would struggle in the pros because he isn't particularly quick or nimble. He will have to guard PF to start, which could be tough for him.

Yi just needs more upper body strength. He is very quick, coordinated and athletic and is a matchup nightmare. He's got the most potential on the defensive end.

Lopez is a bit of a stiff defensively, one more reason not to draft him. His twin is a good shot blocker, so maybe there's hope for him. He was taken to score inside and the Nets are crossing their fingers about the rest.


Remember one thing about CDR and Anderson, these guys are tough competitors and play hard all the time. They will learn how to be effective and overcome some of their physical limitations. Is Jason Collins physically equipped to be a good NBA defender? Competive players find a way to get stops. At the very least the team defense will improve simply because they will listen to the coach and communicate with each other.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 29 2008, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>East Coach Bias makes some interesting points...about Lopez and CDR not having the requisite quickness for the NBA and how the Bucks fleeced the Nets.

http://theeastcoastbias.wordpress.com/2008...nba-draft-2008/

I find this both refreshing (players don't drop because they're really good) and depressing (it confirms my worst fears).</div>

This has been the best offseason for the Nets in years. Not necessarily for who they are bringing in, but rather for the fact the organization has finally came to terms with that they were no better than mediocre.

Could the Nets have gotten more for RJ? It possible, but a cap space and a year old lottery pick isn't bad.

This years draft was pretty much Lopez or Bayless, so we will have to watch the career of those two.

I do not understand any complaints about CDR. He was the 40th pick, so the pick...regardless of player...was a crap shoot.
 
Winning in the NBA is about 1 thing - superstars (top 10 players in the league). 99% of NBA transactions are simply re-arranging the pawns on a chess board - and this trade, and draft, definitely falls into that category.

With the trade it is not hard to tell that on the basketball court we gave up the best player involved. That much is obvious. The thing is that doesn't matter. That "best player" couldn't even help keep us at .500 last year. His play and attitude have been getting worse each year, not better, and he was expensive. Since he isn't a superstar, and we have no way of getting another superstar, keeping RJ is like paying $15 million dollars to rent a studio apartment in mediocreville. The reason we made this trade is the same reason we HAD to trade Jason Kidd. To me this whole argument is really simple. Knowing that without trading RJ we had almost no chance of securing another star player, is there anyway you could see the Nets winning a championship with him? How about a playoff series? I asked myself those same questions at the deadline with the Kidd trade and for the first time I conceded to myself that the window had simply closed on the run and gun Nets. Richard "I should have made the all star team" Jefferson is certainly not going to make me re-think that opinion.

Now I would think most people would agree about the answers to those questions. This team is simply not good enough to compete for a championship, therefore it is ok for this team to make moves that might not make the team better today. Did we hit a homerun with the RJ trade? No. But just like the Kidd trade, it was a move that had to be made, and we got SOMETHING out of it. Something is always better then nothing, just ask the Grizzlies.

As for the draft, arguments about it are pretty futile. Most years there aren't more then 5 really good players out of any draft. Maybe 1 or 2 of them go after the 5th pick. Obviously some years there are more and some years are less (KMarts year). To me this draft wasn't especially good or bad so I have no problem "gambling" on the guys available with the most potential, even if there are some concerns. Some people want to get negative about our picks but for my money the more I learn about them the more I like them. I think its also important to remember that we picked 10th overall, not first. Its not like we wasted some great asset.

One last thing about anyone who needs some re-assurance about our picks. All 3 guys we got were highly productive players in major conferences. 2 of the 3 were among the best players in the NCAA tournament who are among the toughest players in the draft. All 3 of them are hardworking, high character people. We could have done a lot worse.
 
I don't really see Lopez as bust material. He doesn't have great upside, but I think at the very least he will be a solid contributor. He could be a 3rd option. And getting that at 10, particularly a center who can score, is well worth it. How many centers can actually score in this league?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti @ Jun 29 2008, 03:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>The media and the casual fan thinks Milwaukee "fleeced" the Nets, but people who had to endure watching RJ play every minute of last season are wondering how the Nets got a #6 overall pick and the requisite cap relief they sought for him. His attitude was hurting the team and it was time for him to move on.</div>

I couldn't agree more. I know most net fans loved RJ, But he simply isn't as good as his paycheck, or the hype. He is a scoring 3 who isn't great at getting his own shot, and has an inconsistent jumper and isn't great from 3. His defense, while it may have been among the best we had, is vastly overrated.

I scratch my head at those who not only think we got fleeced, but who don't see how this is a great move for us. There are just so many positives about this deal:

RJ and VC were too Redundant - you cant have two 20+ point wing scorers, when neither of them shooter well/consistent from the perimeter(VC's 3 point shooting has tailed off). It hurt our offense. <u>You cant send a lineup on the floor when you dont have a good/consistent shooter at the 2, 3 or 4 position</u>. This move(along with the Anderson pick) give the nets Shooters. Is Yi better then RJ? no. Is Simmons better then RJ? no. But these new guys are all BETTER FITS, and make the nets a more balanced team offensively, and much tougher to guard.

RJ wasnt going to be worth his pricetag. You cant pay a Guy 14 million per over 3 years unless he is a difference maker. RJ is a very good player, borderline all-star. but he just isn't a difference maker. on top of that, he doesnt bring a specific talent that another team needs to account for. He isnt a post threat. He isnt a threat to beat you from the outside, and while he is a good defender, he isnt exactly a stopper. I think if you are gonna pay someone 14-16 million a year, they need to be a force somewhere, and not just a solid all around player. Yi makes less, has a ton of upside, and even if he never becomes a star, will always give you size and outside shooting.

As far as Brook Lopez and CDR go... I dont see how anyone can not like those selections. I can see why some would want Bayless over Brook.... but Brook is still a good fit. It also adds towards what i was saying about having a balanced team. Brook Gives us post scoring, something we had none of. And CDR, incomplete player or not, can score... and a bench scorer is something we havent had in a long time. Maybe he is undersized or cant guard anyone... but playing 12-15 minutes off the bench, if he can put the ball in the hole he will be a big help to the team.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NetIncome @ Jun 29 2008, 07:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>We acquired four major prospects the other night: Yi, Lopez, Anderson and CDR. Are any of them going to be even average defenders on an NBA level?

The lack of defense is an issue. Also, FYI, so is Yi's age. His passport says he is 20 but logic dictates he is more likely 23. Chinese have a verified history of faking kids ages so they can win international youth competitions. To accept that Yi is only 20 means you also have to accept that he was the Chinese Basketball Association ROY at age 15.</div>

Well, the way i see it, we weren't a good defensive team last season WITH Jefferson last season allowing over 100 points per game. I'm not high on Simmons(not even counting his contract), but he shouldn't be a HUGE downgrade defensively from RJ, if healthy.

Maybe we didn't get better defensively, But that isn't always something that can be a quick fix. Last year we were a horrible shooting team(5th worst in the NBA). Getting guys who can shoot the ball, I feel, is something that can be addressed much easier. Yi and Anderson can both shoot the ball... and with this new team, we will never see a lineup where you will have guys at the 2,3, and 4 who all are non-threats from the perimeter. Next year we will be much tougher to guard.

The way I see it, we weren't great defensively last year. That didn't change much... I can't see us being much worse defensively. On the flip side i think we will be a better offensive team, a deeper team, and a team that can beat you in more ways.

Also, I like our "quantity" of potential. I mean what are the odds that Yi, Brook, Anderson, Swat, or boone all fail to become good players?
 
I've been in high support of the RJ trade, and really can't understand the critics. Do you just want to see the Nets win games, or do you want to see the Nets win championships? Look at the Celtics! Over the last 3 years, the Nets have 124 wins, the Celtics have 123. And every NBA fan outside of San Antonio and possibly Miami would gladly trade their team's last 3 seasons for the Celtics last 3 seasons. Like someone else mentioned - you need top 10 players to win championships. And RJ's contract being on the books for $15M in 2010 prevents us from acquiring any of those players.

I really can't comment on the draft picks because I don't watch much college bball.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (AGGiE @ Jun 29 2008, 04:07 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=428492

Draft Grades: D

New Jersey Nets. Is it a requirement for the Nets to have twins on their team? After finally moving the limited Jason Collins they draft Stanford twin Brook Lopez. After trading away Richard Jefferson, that's not good news. They're giving up for now with Lopez and Ryan Anderson, taken later in the first, and Yi Jianlian, acquired in the Jefferson trade. So much for the Nenad Krstic era. The contest becomes them against the Knicks to build the team that most will appeal to LeBron James in the summer of 2010. You had to laugh at "analyst" Mark Jackson, who happens to work for the Nets, applauding their draft. What a mess they've become.

-Sam Smith</div>

But, ya see, nothing Sam Smith says matters. In fact, you should prolly make the font size of the words "Sam Smith" to 7. He knows nothing about the Nets. Nothing about our needs. Nothing about what the FO is thinking. Nothing about RJ, how he played, how Yi plays. He knows nothing about the players from the draft, either. Whether or not these players become successful with the Nets, Sam Smith's opinion never mattered.
 
Sam Smith is a moron and it has nothing to do with that article. Most Bulls fans think he is a hack too. He's one of the last NBA writers I would take seriously.
 
The only one of the four moves (3 picks + trade) that doesn't thrill me is the Lopez drafting, but I readily concede that it was the easiest, safest, and most sensible move that the Nets could have made at 10. Too many people who watch college ball closely had Lopez pegged in the 3-5 region for a team in desperate need of big-man, inside scoring to pass him up. I don't think I've read a knowledgeable pundit yet predict that Lopez would be anything less than a serviceable center at the NBA level, so there is very little risk to the pick, as I see it. No he will never be an all star, but if he can make a competent individual move in the post 3-4 times a night when the Nets are stuck on the perimeter and their shots aren't falling, he will be worth a #10 easily.

I REALLY like what I've seen of Yi in clips, starting with the fact that he is incredibly quick and athletic for a guy 7' tall. Add that to the fact that he is said to be automatic from 18-20 feet, and this guy will thrive playing with Carter and Harris in pick and rolls/pops.

CDR at 40 is a no-brainer, as far as I'm concerned. And I will still feel that way in the unlikely event that he is a total bust since that's what you expect to draft at 40 anyway. I predict he will be a rotation player next year.

Of all the new acquisitions, however, the one I feel most optimistic about is Anderson. Time will tell, but I really believe that by the end of the season, he will end up playing the same minutes and roll as Boki but will be much more productive on both ends. And I could see Anderson and Sean both sharing floor time with one of the other bigs with Sean playing the 3 defensively and Anderson the 4 while reversing roles on the other end. Having a guy like Anderson, with his combination of size, rebounding, inside defensive toughness, and shooting range could actually help Sean stay on the court longer because he won't have to guard guys in the paint that are much longer and outweigh him by 30 pounds.
 
Feel like I've entered bizarro world. NI dissing the franchise for picking best players available and getting a marketing machine for RJ and everyone else defending management
 
Smith isn't well liked by a lot of readers, for some reason. He was beat writer for the Bulls for 20 years, easily, if not more.

The Nets' draft was either extraordinary, or they were suckers for picking guys the rest of the league passed on and were hyped as lotto material.

You can go whole hog and drink a bunch of kool-aid, but views like Smith's here might give you some balance.
 
I'm with NI on this, Lopez dropped for a reason.

I'm not rooting against him because I obviously want him to pan out but I'm getting ready for disappointment.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Defender @ Jun 29 2008, 02:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I'm with NI on this, Lopez dropped for a reason.

I'm not rooting against him because I obviously want him to pan out but I'm getting ready for disappointment.</div>

I thought I was the only Lopez hater.

 
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