NY Knicks interested in a First Round pick

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UKRAINEFAN said:
I think somebody in one of the other threads had an idea. I mean, what if Olshey got a no on his attempts to trade for George or Butler, or just decided it was too risky to trade for George. I have always thought Evan Turner was a Phil Jackson kind of player and somebody posted that above (although the link didn't match). So what about trading Turner, Harkless and Leonard (he also seems to be kind of a Phil Jackson player, although a poor-performing one) and the 15 for Anthony, O'Quinn and the #8?
Call me crazy but I can see New York doing that. They do not like to rebuild, this would be going younger but still being experienced. They would be receiving two good young veterans in exchange for a player they consider now a liability and for a backup center who isn't really needed.

Now, would Portland do it? If they think somebody will be available at #8 that they really love and who will help within two years, then I guess yes. They would save $6 million the first year and by acquiring two guys with one less year on their deals than the guys going out. How would Anthony do here? Does Olshey think Stotts is such a wizard that he could integrate him successfully?
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I'd do it, but don't see Melo waiving his no-trade to come to Portland.
 
If the Knicks insisted on us taking Melo, I'd take him and cut him or retrade him elsewhere. I'd tell Melo this too, so that he would let the trade go through and then would have the opportunity to sign with any team he wants.

Granted, in this trade I'd want to match Melo's contract with Turner's/Crabbe's and Leonards, and get value back accordingly.

I'd do Harkless, Leonard, Crabbe, Ezeli, #15, and #26 for #8, Melo, and O'Quinn. I'm not sure if New York would do it, but that's what I'd be looking at. Cut Melo and only pay his 1 year remaining of $24M and be off the hook from Leonard and Crabbe in a single year.

Wed still have the #20 pick to pursue a guy like Crowder if BOS signs Hayward, or we could attach #20 to Turner and completely clear our salary cap fuckups by next year, where we could have max cap space before resigning Nurkic. Not only would we be able to clear our cap fuckups, but we'd have the 8th pick in the draft.

Trading Turner out with #20 would leave the wing cupboard pretty bare, but we'd still have the 8th pick that would be capable of playing minutes right away (it could be Smith, Monk, Isaac, who knows). We'd need two more wings, but we could sign guys like Sefelosha, Evans, etc.

Melo is a bad NBA player. Poor defender, doesn't pass, isn't an efficient scorer and is already declining.

I guess we could try to reroute Melo with Turner in that trade where:
We get: 8th Pick, O'Quinn
NYK Gets: 15th pick, 26th pick, Harkless, Crabbe, Leonard
Team 3 Gets: 20th pick, Turner, Melo

Where Team 3 promises to cut Melo. Team 3 could be Brooklyn, Miami (who Melo might want to play for), Sacremento, or any other team with $40-$50M in cap space.
 
BonesJones said:
We get: 8th Pick, O'Quinn
NYK Gets: 15th pick, 26th pick, Harkless, Crabbe, Leonard
Team 3 Gets: 20th pick, Turner, Melo
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JEEZ! You have us trading:
THREE 1st round picks
PLUS Harkless
PLUS Crabbe
PLUS Turner
and Meyers

And all we get in return is #8 and mediocre-as-shit O'Quinn? I don't like Crabbe, Turner, or Meyers, but c'mon!
[shakes head in disgust]
 
blue9 said:
JEEZ! You have us trading:
THREE 1st round picks
PLUS Harkless
PLUS Crabbe
PLUS Turner
and Meyers

And all we get in return is #8 and mediocre-as-shit O'Quinn? I don't like Crabbe, Turner, or Meyers, but c'mon!
[shakes head in disgust]
Click to expand...

I don't think you're exactly representing this trade fairly. It should be:

"You have us trading:
THREE 1st round picks
PLUS Harkless

and all we get in return is #8, O'Quinn and dumping the contracts of Crabbe, Turner and Meyers?"

I'm not sure whether I'd do that deal, but putting Crabbe, Turner and Meyers on the "assets we lose" side rather than the "liabilities Knicks take off our hands" side is unreasonable, IMO.

Harkless and O'Quinn aren't that dissimilar. Harkless is probably a bit more valuable being younger, but meh. So it's mostly three first round picks for the #8 and a ton of salary albatrosses gone. It's at least close to fair.
 
BonesJones said:
If the Knicks insisted on us taking Melo, I'd take him and cut him or retrade him elsewhere. I'd tell Melo this too, so that he would let the trade go through and then would have the opportunity to sign with any team he wants.

Granted, in this trade I'd want to match Melo's contract with Turner's/Crabbe's and Leonards, and get value back accordingly.

I'd do Harkless, Leonard, Crabbe, Ezeli, #15, and #26 for #8, Melo, and O'Quinn. I'm not sure if New York would do it, but that's what I'd be looking at. Cut Melo and only pay his 1 year remaining of $24M and be off the hook from Leonard and Crabbe in a single year.

Wed still have the #20 pick to pursue a guy like Crowder if BOS signs Hayward, or we could attach #20 to Turner and completely clear our salary cap fuckups by next year, where we could have max cap space before resigning Nurkic. Not only would we be able to clear our cap fuckups, but we'd have the 8th pick in the draft.

Trading Turner out with #20 would leave the wing cupboard pretty bare, but we'd still have the 8th pick that would be capable of playing minutes right away (it could be Smith, Monk, Isaac, who knows). We'd need two more wings, but we could sign guys like Sefelosha, Evans, etc.

Melo is a bad NBA player. Poor defender, doesn't pass, isn't an efficient scorer and is already declining.

I guess we could try to reroute Melo with Turner in that trade where:
We get: 8th Pick, O'Quinn
NYK Gets: 15th pick, 26th pick, Harkless, Crabbe, Leonard
Team 3 Gets: 20th pick, Turner, Melo

Where Team 3 promises to cut Melo. Team 3 could be Brooklyn, Miami (who Melo might want to play for), Sacremento, or any other team with $40-$50M in cap space.
Click to expand...

So you'd rather pay Melo 24 million to kick rocks than play for us?

Interesting use of money
 
blue9 said:
JEEZ! You have us trading:
THREE 1st round picks
PLUS Harkless
PLUS Crabbe
PLUS Turner
and Meyers

And all we get in return is #8 and mediocre-as-shit O'Quinn? I don't like Crabbe, Turner, or Meyers, but c'mon!
[shakes head in disgust]
Click to expand...
Clearing $50M of long term salary and getting a good backup C and the 8th pick is a bad thing?
 
blue9 said:
JEEZ! You have us trading:
THREE 1st round picks
PLUS Harkless
PLUS Crabbe
PLUS Turner
and Meyers

And all we get in return is #8 and mediocre-as-shit O'Quinn? I don't like Crabbe, Turner, or Meyers, but c'mon!
[shakes head in disgust]
Click to expand...
Look at it this way: we're trading 15/20 for 8, "drafting" O'Quinn with 26, and undoing every signing from last summer.

Would you sign on for that?
 
BonesJones said:
Clearing $50M of long term salary and getting a good backup C and the 8th pick is a bad thing?
Click to expand...
Uh, yeah. You've left us with a roster that basically consists of:

Dame (no trade)
CJ (no trade)
Nurk (no trade)
Vonleh (ok value as both player and trade bait)
Aminu (not worth much either as a player or trade bait)
Davis (not worth much either as a player or trade bait)
O'Quinn (not worth much as a player or trade bait)
One draft pick (who knows what their worth will be as a player or trade bait)
A bunch of 3rd stringers.

And how much cap space did you create? Like, $10-15M? So we don't have much money to replace the rotation players you traded away, and even if it's more than $15M we aren't an attractive destination for Free Agents so it's unlikely we'd sign anyone better than the players you traded away. And rather than having THREE draft picks to fill out the roster we now have ONE. And we don't have any more players to make trades with, so we can't improve the roster via an unbalanced trade. And the roster is HUGELY worse and more imbalanced than it was before your proposed trade.
 
blue9 said:
Uh, yeah. You've left us with a roster that basically consists of:

Dame (no trade)
CJ (no trade)
Nurk (no trade)
Vonleh (ok value as both player and trade bait)
Aminu (not worth much either as a player or trade bait)
Davis (not worth much either as a player or trade bait)
O'Quinn (not worth much as a player or trade bait)
One draft pick (who knows what their worth will be as a player or trade bait)
A bunch of 3rd stringers.

And how much cap space did you create? Like, $10-15M? So we don't have much money to replace the rotation players you traded away, and even if it's more than $15M we aren't an attractive destination for Free Agents so it's unlikely we'd sign anyone better than the players you traded away. And rather than having THREE draft picks to fill out the roster we now have ONE. And we don't have any more players to make trades with, so we can't improve the roster via an unbalanced trade. And the roster is HUGELY worse and more imbalanced than it was before your proposed trade.
Click to expand...
Dude, what the fuck? Do you really think that would be the only move if we were set on clearing cap space? For fucks sake. We'd probably trade Davis, Napier, & Aminu and have ~$35M to spend while already having

3 of 5 perimeter players (Lillard, CJ, 8th Draft Pick)
3 of 4 big men (Nurkic, Vonleh, O'Quinn).

Signings of short, $8-$16M contracts of players like James Johnson or Amir Johnson at PF, a defender like Sefelosha on the wing, and a big playmaking wing that can already shoot in Tyreke Evans would make is better than last year, give us more flexibility for the future, and help us add a rookie prospect that is better than anyone picked with #15, #20, or #26.
 
BonesJones said:
If the Knicks insisted on us taking Melo, I'd take him and cut him or retrade him elsewhere. I'd tell Melo this too, so that he would let the trade go through and then would have the opportunity to sign with any team he wants.

Granted, in this trade I'd want to match Melo's contract with Turner's/Crabbe's and Leonards, and get value back accordingly.

I'd do Harkless, Leonard, Crabbe, Ezeli, #15, and #26 for #8, Melo, and O'Quinn. I'm not sure if New York would do it, but that's what I'd be looking at. Cut Melo and only pay his 1 year remaining of $24M and be off the hook from Leonard and Crabbe in a single year.

Wed still have the #20 pick to pursue a guy like Crowder if BOS signs Hayward, or we could attach #20 to Turner and completely clear our salary cap fuckups by next year, where we could have max cap space before resigning Nurkic. Not only would we be able to clear our cap fuckups, but we'd have the 8th pick in the draft.

Trading Turner out with #20 would leave the wing cupboard pretty bare, but we'd still have the 8th pick that would be capable of playing minutes right away (it could be Smith, Monk, Isaac, who knows). We'd need two more wings, but we could sign guys like Sefelosha, Evans, etc.

Melo is a bad NBA player. Poor defender, doesn't pass, isn't an efficient scorer and is already declining.

I guess we could try to reroute Melo with Turner in that trade where:
We get: 8th Pick, O'Quinn
NYK Gets: 15th pick, 26th pick, Harkless, Crabbe, Leonard
Team 3 Gets: 20th pick, Turner, Melo

Where Team 3 promises to cut Melo. Team 3 could be Brooklyn, Miami (who Melo might want to play for), Sacremento, or any other team with $40-$50M in cap space.
Click to expand...

It looks like you have 2/3 of a 3 way trade here

What about including chicago?

We get :8th mirotic O'Quinn
NYK: 15,16, crabbe, portis
Chi: Melo
 
I don't think it O'Quinn that Olshey be after in New York I think it would Hermangomez he be after plus the 8th pick. That gives us young backup center and quality young player in the draft.
 
Trackjack said:
I don't think it O'Quinn that Olshey be after in New York I think it would Hermangomez he be after plus the 8th pick. That gives us young backup center and quality young player in the draft.
Click to expand...
No, it won't be. NYK values Willy much more than KOQ, and he's their starting C for the future. We already have ours, so there's not enough room for Hernangomez to grow.
 
BonesJones said:
Dude, what the fuck? Do you really think that would be the only move if we were set on clearing cap space? For fucks sake. We'd probably trade Davis, Napier, & Aminu and have ~$35M to spend while already having
Click to expand...
So we're right back to where we were last summer, giving mediocre talent HUGE contracts just in the hopes they'll come play here...and even then, the chances are slim that we land more than one mid-tier player. I'm no fan of Turner, but that's the level of player we'd be HOPING to sign.

BonesJones said:
3 of 5 perimeter players (Lillard, CJ, 8th Draft Pick)
3 of 4 big men (Nurkic, Vonleh, O'Quinn).
Click to expand...
So we've got three good players, one maybe kinda good player in Vonleh, and a mediocre back-up in O'Quinn. Awesome. But that 8th draft pick will TOTALLY be able to fill in for Harkless, Crabbe and Turner...oh, and now Aminu too. (I actually DO think that any of our three draft picks could replace Aminu or Davis. But nobody at #8 is going to fill the void left by 4 rotation players.)

BonesJones said:
Signings of short, $8-$16M contracts of players like James Johnson or Amir Johnson at PF, a defender like Sefelosha on the wing, and a big playmaking wing that can already shoot in Tyreke Evans would make is better than last year, give us more flexibility for the future, and help us add a rookie prospect that is better than anyone picked with #15, #20, or #26.
Click to expand...
Why are any of these guys going to choose to come play with a team that has 3 legitimate NBA players? Maybe we get lucky with one of them, but no way do we get multiple mid-tier Free Agents.

A far more prudent approach would be to use the 3 draft picks in what is supposedly a DEEP draft. That gives us three chances at getting a good player, rather than just a single chance.

Despite my not liking Crabbe or Turner, they have some value. Rather than giving them away and then HOPING to replace them, it would be smarter to trade them for their replacement. Other teams have their own versions of Crabbe/Turner, and perhaps a simple swap will create a better fit for both teams...or at least for us, who cares about the other team! Failing that, I'm fine with salary-dumping one of them at the deadline - but at this point it's stupid to PAY to trade either of them (or anyone).

Harkless is probably our most valuable trade chip. Packaging him with 3 draft picks just to move up to #8 would be a travesty. If he's traded it should be in a package for a better player. Any chance of trading for a good but disgruntled player is going to rely on Harkless/Vonleh plus additional assets depending on the player we're trading for. Without Harkless (and to a lesser extent, Vonleh) we have nothing of value to make a good trade - and trades and the draft are the ONLY way to improve the roster at this point in time.
 
BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94 said:
I would, they couldn't compete with Cleveland. The best thing to do is gain young talent for 3-4 years down the road.
Click to expand...

They signed dwade to a 24mil per year deal last year. That may be your opinion what is the best thing to do but I dont think they are listening to you.
 
blue9 said:
So we're right back to where we were last summer, giving mediocre talent HUGE contracts just in the hopes they'll come play here...and even then, the chances are slim that we land more than one mid-tier player. I'm no fan of Turner, but that's the level of player we'd be HOPING to sign.


So we've got three good players, one maybe kinda good player in Vonleh, and a mediocre back-up in O'Quinn. Awesome. But that 8th draft pick will TOTALLY be able to fill in for Harkless, Crabbe and Turner...oh, and now Aminu too. (I actually DO think that any of our three draft picks could replace Aminu or Davis. But nobody at #8 is going to fill the void left by 4 rotation players.)


Why are any of these guys going to choose to come play with a team that has 3 legitimate NBA players? Maybe we get lucky with one of them, but no way do we get multiple mid-tier Free Agents.

A far more prudent approach would be to use the 3 draft picks in what is supposedly a DEEP draft. That gives us three chances at getting a good player, rather than just a single chance.

Despite my not liking Crabbe or Turner, they have some value. Rather than giving them away and then HOPING to replace them, it would be smarter to trade them for their replacement. Other teams have their own versions of Crabbe/Turner, and perhaps a simple swap will create a better fit for both teams...or at least for us, who cares about the other team! Failing that, I'm fine with salary-dumping one of them at the deadline - but at this point it's stupid to PAY to trade either of them (or anyone).

Harkless is probably our most valuable trade chip. Packaging him with 3 draft picks just to move up to #8 would be a travesty. If he's traded it should be in a package for a better player. Any chance of trading for a good but disgruntled player is going to rely on Harkless/Vonleh plus additional assets depending on the player we're trading for. Without Harkless (and to a lesser extent, Vonleh) we have nothing of value to make a good trade - and trades and the draft are the ONLY way to improve the roster at this point in time.
Click to expand...
Do you know how many mid-tier free agents are available compared to how many teams have the space to sign them?

Other teams versions of Turner and Crabbe are making half the money they are. We won't be able to simply replace them with a simple swap. They have no trade value whatsoever.

At #8 you get a guy that has all-star potential that you don't get at #15, #20, or #26. Harkless is a middling role player. On a team full of middling role players, would you rather have 4 middling role players or 1 good player w/ all-star potential? Harkless won't fetch you a good player, and selling low on Vonleh would be extremely dumb.

So you want to keep our mediocre players napping absurd amounts of money, trade a combination of our picks, Vonleh, and Harkless for a decent player, and that's it? That's a travesty of a plan.
 
@blue9 You have no idea what you're talking about when it cones to O'Quinn if you think he's a mediocre backup.

And whoever we draft at #8 will be far better than Turner/Crabbe/Harkless, and we could easily sign equal or better players than them.
 
I'm not down for any scenario where we're having to rely on signing free agents. Sorry. Portland is not a destination. Last summer we had momentum and all we got out of it was Evan Turner, and I wouldn't even count him since we only landed him by overpaying. So all we got was, ummm, Festus Ezeli? No thanks. Either go all in on trading for a Paul George, or keep building through the draft (either by developing them or using the picks as assets.)
 
Scalma said:
I'm not down for any scenario where we're having to rely on signing free agents. Sorry. Portland is not a destination. Last summer we had momentum and all we got out of it was Evan Turner, and I wouldn't even count him since we only landed him by overpaying. So all we got was, ummm, Festus Ezeli? No thanks. Either go all in on trading for a Paul George, or keep building through the draft (either by developing them or using the picks as assets.)
Click to expand...

Complaining about overpaying free agents coming to Portland is like complaining about Portland's rain.
 
Scalma said:
Where was I complaining? I stated a fact.
Click to expand...

Most complaints are people stating facts....

The prerequisite for classifying an action as a complaint does not rely on whether or not the words are true...
 
Scalma said:
Last summer we had momentum and all we got out of it was Evan Turner.
Click to expand...

complaint #1

Scalma said:
and I wouldn't even count him since we only landed him by overpaying.
Click to expand...

whiny complaint...

Scalma said:
So all we got was, ummm, Festus Ezeli? No thanks.
Click to expand...

Another whiny complaint...

I'm just saying. Unfortunately, we have to overpay FAs to come to Portland (Aminu & Davis were steals but I digress). Fact. So why whine about it when it happens? Like I said, it's like complaining about the rain.
 
dviss1 said:
Most complaints are people stating facts....

The prerequisite for classifying an action as a complaint does not rely on whether or not the words are true...
Click to expand...

Cool story.
 
dviss1 said:
complaint #1



whiny complaint...



Another whiny complaint...

I'm just saying. Unfortunately, we have to overpay FAs to come to Portland (Aminu & Davis were steals but I digress). Fact. So why whine about it when it happens? Like I said, it's like complaining about the rain.
Click to expand...

Please don't try to tell me what I was or wasn't doing. Thanks. None of this matters anyway and has nothing to do with the point I was making. My point; relying on free agency = not smart.
 
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