NYPD: 2 Gay Men Attacked Outside Movie Theater In Chelsea

[Denny Crane]

hahahaahaa Denny, with that, you have just jumped the shark..love to see pictures of you behaiving in that manor...

Hahahaha.

The mayor of San Diego has at least a dozen women come out and complain he sexually harassed them. But he's normal.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Hahahaha.

The mayor of San Diego has at least a dozen women come out and complain he sexually harassed them. But he's normal.

only in California..

 

[Denny Crane]

only in California..

Weiner's flagging in the NYC mayor race.

 

[oldguy]

That is my point exactly. She isn't asking for anything. But for years women have had to fight this notion that they some how brought on the attention of their attackers because they were dressing too sexily. Somehow the blame was partially on them when it should 100% be on the perp.

I've never known one single person in my entire life that believed that a woman deserved to be raped because she dressed slutty. I believe that lawyers came up with that bullshit.

I never said you thought they should get beat up, but you did say "sometimes..these guys are trying to get beat up".

No, I didn't. But thanks for mis-quoting again. Here's what I said:

That said, there are cases where I find myself thinking, are those guys TRYING to get beat up?

As in, what the hell are you thinking? What you made up is a statement that I believe that they are trying to get beat up. I didn't say that, I don't think that.

Even though you are talking about another situation, bringing it up the context of this thread implies that some times when gays get beat up, they brought it upon themselves. Do you not see how that comment trivializes the actual brutality that happened against 2 guys in the original article? Just like the "she was asking for it wearing that skirt" comment that was so rampant in the past trivialized sexual violence against women?

No, I don't. See VG's reply if you still don't get it.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

If that's what they do, then by definition it is what normal people do.

Would you ask one of your normal friends that best way to get shit boogers off your fingers after a romantic stroll?

Go Blazers

 

[Denny Crane]

Would you ask one of your normal friends that best way to get shit boogers off your fingers after a romantic stroll?

Go Blazers

Do you read the nonsense you type?

 

[crandc]

I would be interested in learning more about these people in the US, who openly support jailing, killing and raping gay people..you know, you live in the perfect enclave that embraces the gay community..if so many terrible things have happened to you there..well I am shocked

Ask and you shall receive.

Cleveland radio host tells father to have his lesbian daughter raped straight
Judge says lesbians (but not gay men) should be allowed to serve in U.S. military so male soldiers can rape them straight
U.S. minister endorses Uganda’s “kill the gays” bill
U.S. evangelicals praise “kill the gays” bill
U.S. pastor calls for killing gays in America
American Family Association leader calls for imprisoning gays in U.S.
Discredited former psychologist calls for preemptively imprisoning gays to prevent child rape

As to your rant ... I am flattered you remember my past posts from years ago. I don't even remember my posts from years ago. The Folsom Street Fair has exactly nothing to do with two gay men attacked outside a movie theater. Aside from which I'm pretty sure you've never been to the Folsom Street Fair.

In my entire life I have never know any gay men who walk down the street with their fingers up each others' butts. You must travel in different circles than I do.

I only wish that no one said women deserved to be raped for "dressing slutty"; in fact, that is said even when the woman is dressing with the most extreme modesty. Do you want me to post more links? Starting with the judge who dismissed charges because the "sluttily dressed" teen girl had on jeans and sweatshirt? Or the jury who said in so many words that the woman wearing a mini dress with no underwear was clearly asking for it?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

They should be put to death. That's what happened in Israel. That's why homosexuality wouldn't have grown in Israel. It tends to limit conversions. It tends to limit people coming out of the closet. — 'Oh, so you're saying we should go out and start killing them, no?' — I'm saying the government should. They won't but they should. [You say], 'oh, I can't believe you you're horrible. You're a backwards neanderthal of a person.' Is that what you're calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal backwards.. in his morality. Is it his word or not? If it's his word, he commanded it. It's his idea, not mine. And I'm not ashamed of it."

as an example..each of these stories are about some off the wall goof..and about half are taken out of context..how about I find half a dozen gays saying hatefull things? You and I both know it would be pretty easy..I guess I was expecting something moremain line tomatch your outrage, or even forthat matter, something first hand rather than a shared group hate..

also

I know we all look alike, but the seconed half of your post has nothing to do with anything I have asked or stated, but it ishumorous that you spend so much time distanceing yourself from some of the things you say..

 

[SlyPokerDog]

They should be put to death. That's what happened in Israel. That's why homosexuality wouldn't have grown in Israel. It tends to limit conversions. It tends to limit people coming out of the closet. — 'Oh, so you're saying we should go out and start killing them, no?' — I'm saying the government should. They won't but they should. [You say], 'oh, I can't believe you you're horrible. You're a backwards neanderthal of a person.' Is that what you're calling scripture? Is God a neanderthal backwards.. in his morality. Is it his word or not? If it's his word, he commanded it. It's his idea, not mine. And I'm not ashamed of it."

I'm late to the party and haven't been following this thread much. Can you catch me up?

Who should be put to death?

What happened in Israel?

Why wouldn't homosexuality have grown in Israel? Because gay people should have been put to death?

Conversions to what?

Are you talking about biblical times or modern times?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Denny Crane]

In my entire life I have never know any gay men who walk down the street with their fingers up each others' butts. You must travel in different circles than I do.

Duh!

 

[crandc]

DaLincoln asked for examples of people in the U.S. who think gays should be raped, imprisoned or killed. I provide a pageful and he says they don't count because they are extremist.

If there are moderates who think gays should be imprisoned, raped, or killed, I concede I don't know any.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

I'm late to the party and haven't been following this thread much. Can you catch me up?

Who should be put to death?

What happened in Israel?

Why wouldn't homosexuality have grown in Israel? Because gay people should have been put to death?

Conversions to what?

Are you talking about biblical times or modern times?

Thanks in advance.

from a link that crandc was kind enough to provide. I pulled the most extreme example,with the least conjecture, I wanted to bring tolight the worst of the worst, and that was it..obviously not my opinion.

For the record, I have much respect for crandc. period. I enjoy exchanging information and opinions, and I have a better understanding of what she percieves as wrongs done aginst her..argueable she has more of a collective mind set than I, but that may well be a gender thing, as my wife is much the same.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

DaLincoln asked for examples of people in the U.S. who think gays should be raped, imprisoned or killed. I provide a pageful and he says they don't count because they are extremist.

If there are moderates who think gays should be imprisoned, raped, or killed, I concede I don't know any.

again, thank you for being so open and honest with me. For the record, I did not mean to discount your feelings or opinion. A lot of what you posted does read like propaganda used to fire up the troops, that is why I posted the worst with the least conjecture. I felt that it was the most valid example from all of the material. I also concede that there are some really fucked up people out there..on both sides of the fence

 

[oldguy]

Ask and you shall receive.

I'll assume the part I deleted was your reply to DLJ. You seem to have him and I mixed up or combined in some way.

As to your rant ... I am flattered you remember my past posts from years ago. I don't even remember my posts from years ago. The Folsom Street Fair has exactly nothing to do with two gay men attacked outside a movie theater. Aside from which I'm pretty sure you've never been to the Folsom Street Fair.

Sorry about your memory. The "...like the Jews in Warsaw" comment didn't ring any bells for you? As for backing off the gay militant crap you were giving me at the time...good for you! I'll assume that you are purposely missing the point of bring up the FSF....that it shows that, at that time at least, there was virtually nothing a gay person does that you find offensive. That seems to give you leave to be outraged when anyone else is offended by something a gay person does. I defend your right to be outraged as much as I demand my right to be offended.

In my entire life I have never know any gay men who walk down the street with their fingers up each others' butts. You must travel in different circles than I do.

You are a funny girl. I never said it was one of your friends or neighbors. We were arguing over how outrageous the behavior was at the FSF, and whether it was a suitable venue for kids. I would have posted the pix, but a mod nixed that idea, and I accepted that that would not be ok. Nevertheless, there were pix of just that (and lots more of public spanking of bear asses, etc.) on the FSF website. Since it was on their website, it was behavior they were ADVERTISING, not something they wanted to brush under the rug. They were/are proud of that behavior.

This is not the pic I was talking about, but it shows the public behavior I was talking about. And, you said it should be fine for kids to attend, or do you not remember that?

PICS ARE NOT WORK SAFE FOR SOME OF US.

http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2006/index.php?slide=70

Would you still make the case that it is perfectly fine for children to see these things:
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=8
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=15
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=68
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=70
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2011/index.php?slide=20
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2003/index.php?slide=4
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2003/index.php?slide=64

If you go to some of the links posted on the FSF, you will find pix of the shit they don't seem to want on the FSF website. I'd say it shows the FSF is a lot less kiddie friendly than I had realized back when we first discussed it. But, you already knew that, right?

Just normal folks walking around in leather according to crandc. Or, to get in before Denny, just normal folks (by definition) displaying abnormal public behavior.

So, let me ask you straight up crandc, has your position changed on whether kids should be kept away from this fair, or do you maintain that there is no reason to keep them out?

I only wish that no one said women deserved to be raped for "dressing slutty"; in fact, that is said even when the woman is dressing with the most extreme modesty. Do you want me to post more links? Starting with the judge who dismissed charges because the "sluttily dressed" teen girl had on jeans and sweatshirt? Or the jury who said in so many words that the woman wearing a mini dress with no underwear was clearly asking for it?

Ok, the world is full of stupid people, so I'll concede that there are some that think that way. I don't think that, and I've never know one person that does.

Go Blazers

 

[Denny Crane]

smut!

off with their heads!

geez

Do you even read the crap you sometimes post?

 

[DaLincolnJones]

son of a bitch, I damn near fell off my chair..that one pic of Denny...wow..no wonder

just some good clean family fun..

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Ask and you shall receive.

I'll assume the part I deleted was your reply to DLJ. You seem to have him and I mixed up or combined in some way.



Sorry about your memory. The "...like the Jews in Warsaw" comment didn't ring any bells for you? As for backing off the gay militant crap you were giving me at the time...good for you! I'll assume that you are purposely missing the point of bring up the FSF....that it shows that, at that time at least, there was virtually nothing a gay person does that you find offensive. That seems to give you leave to be outraged when anyone else is offended by something a gay person does. I defend your right to be outraged as much as I demand my right to be offended.



You are a funny girl. I never said it was one of your friends or neighbors. We were arguing over how outrageous the behavior was at the FSF, and whether it was a suitable venue for kids. I would have posted the pix, but a mod nixed that idea, and I accepted that that would not be ok. Nevertheless, there were pix of just that (and lots more of public spanking of bear asses, etc.) on the FSF website. Since it was on their website, it was behavior they were ADVERTISING, not something they wanted to brush under the rug. They were/are proud of that behavior.

This is not the pic I was talking about, but it shows the public behavior I was talking about. And, you said it should be fine for kids to attend, or do you not remember that?

PICS ARE NOT WORK SAFE FOR SOME OF US.

http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2006/index.php?slide=70

Would you still make the case that it is perfectly fine for children to see these things:
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=8
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=15
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=68
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=70
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2011/index.php?slide=20
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2003/index.php?slide=4
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2003/index.php?slide=64

If you go to some of the links posted on the FSF, you will find pix of the shit they don't seem to want on the FSF website. I'd say it shows the FSF is a lot less kiddie friendly than I had realized back when we first discussed it. But, you already knew that, right?

Just normal folks walking around in leather according to crandc. Or, to get in before Denny, just normal folks (by definition) displaying abnormal public behavior.

So, let me ask you straight up crandc, has your position changed on whether kids should be kept away from this fair, or do you maintain that there is no reason to keep them out?



Ok, the world is full of stupid people, so I'll concede that there are some that think that way. I don't think that, and I've never know one person that does.

Go Blazers

Which mod said you couldn't post pictures?

The way you just posted links to them was fine.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Ask and you shall receive.

I'll assume the part I deleted was your reply to DLJ. You seem to have him and I mixed up or combined in some way.



Sorry about your memory. The "...like the Jews in Warsaw" comment didn't ring any bells for you? As for backing off the gay militant crap you were giving me at the time...good for you! I'll assume that you are purposely missing the point of bring up the FSF....that it shows that, at that time at least, there was virtually nothing a gay person does that you find offensive. That seems to give you leave to be outraged when anyone else is offended by something a gay person does. I defend your right to be outraged as much as I demand my right to be offended.



You are a funny girl. I never said it was one of your friends or neighbors. We were arguing over how outrageous the behavior was at the FSF, and whether it was a suitable venue for kids. I would have posted the pix, but a mod nixed that idea, and I accepted that that would not be ok. Nevertheless, there were pix of just that (and lots more of public spanking of bear asses, etc.) on the FSF website. Since it was on their website, it was behavior they were ADVERTISING, not something they wanted to brush under the rug. They were/are proud of that behavior.

This is not the pic I was talking about, but it shows the public behavior I was talking about. And, you said it should be fine for kids to attend, or do you not remember that?

PICS ARE NOT WORK SAFE FOR SOME OF US.

http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2006/index.php?slide=70

Would you still make the case that it is perfectly fine for children to see these things:
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=8
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=15
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=68
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/folsom-2012/index.php?slide=70
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2011/index.php?slide=20
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2003/index.php?slide=4
http://folsomstreetfair.org/photos/alley-2003/index.php?slide=64

If you go to some of the links posted on the FSF, you will find pix of the shit they don't seem to want on the FSF website. I'd say it shows the FSF is a lot less kiddie friendly than I had realized back when we first discussed it. But, you already knew that, right?

Just normal folks walking around in leather according to crandc. Or, to get in before Denny, just normal folks (by definition) displaying abnormal public behavior.

So, let me ask you straight up crandc, has your position changed on whether kids should be kept away from this fair, or do you maintain that there is no reason to keep them out?



Ok, the world is full of stupid people, so I'll concede that there are some that think that way. I don't think that, and I've never know one person that does.

Go Blazers

I felt weird repping this post, but I did anyways.

How anyone could say children should be allowed to be present during that kind of activity is ridiculous.

 

[Denny Crane]

Heterosexual people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_Erotic_Ball

https://www.google.com/search?q=new...OSyAHTmoGgDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1268&bih=802

 

[oldguy]

smut!

off with their heads!

geez

Do you even read the crap you sometimes post?

Perfectly kid friendly for normal people like you Denny?

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Heterosexual people:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_Erotic_Ball

https://www.google.com/search?q=new...OSyAHTmoGgDg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1268&bih=802

What the hell is your point?

Do you even read the shit you write?

Go Balzers

 

[Further]

DLJ and oldguy, first let me say I am not accusing you of anything, I just want to point out why I, a heterosexual male, and why many others gay and strait care deeply about these issues.

So here is a one situation that got me invested, and I have heard such stories repeated to the point that actions like these are commonplace. When I was 19, I had friends who were gay and lesbian, and the girlfriend of a lesbian friend of mine was talking for months about how she was getting ready to come out to here father, who was a very religious person. Her mother knew, and was not pleased, but accepted the situation but her parents were divorced and she felt it was time to tell dad. She went back to NH for Christmas and during that time told her dad. Her dad screamed and shouted and then suddenly grabbed her and choked her. She woke up on the front porch with a broken wrist and all her clothes and pictures and other belongings piled on top of her and blowing around the yard. She had her father arrested, but that was it, no more dad for the rest of her life.

People often treat LGBT with such disdain it breaks my heart. So yes, sometimes we may be overzealous or louder than you may like, but there is a ton of history in those raised voices. When crandc is called a jihadist for speaking out for LGBT everywhere, she is speaking out for my friend who and for your relatives and for all those who are beaten up and thrown out of their house or even mainstream society. crandc is not a jihadist, she is hurting nobody, she is only trying to express her views and get more people to treat LGBT's with the same respect they would others.

 

[Denny Crane]

Perfectly kid friendly for normal people like you Denny?

Go Blazers

You said kid friendly. Go argue with yourself.

 

[Denny Crane]

What the hell is your point?

Do you even read the shit you write?

Go Balzers

Look at all the abnormal heterosexuals!

Feel free to freak out about that, too.

But it really is normal, you see.

 

[oldguy]

You said kid friendly. Go argue with yourself.

Much more fun to argue with random know-it-all blowhards.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Look at all the abnormal heterosexuals!

Per your words, normal people....my words, abnormal public behavior.

Did I miss the public bondage, looking up people's asses at close range in public, shoving fingers up asses in public? If I did, please point them out. I've never seen that at Marti Gras went I went, or anything even close. If it's not there feel free to fuck off, since it has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

Feel free to freak out about that, too.

Ok, :MARIS61:

Your turn.

But it really is normal, you see.

Never mind the fact that those normal people would be arrested for doing that in most towns...and not because they are gay. But whatever spins your props Denny.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

DLJ and oldguy, first let me say I am not accusing you of anything, I just want to point out why I, a heterosexual male, and why many others gay and strait care deeply about these issues.

So here is a one situation that got me invested, and I have heard such stories repeated to the point that actions like these are commonplace. When I was 19, I had friends who were gay and lesbian, and the girlfriend of a lesbian friend of mine was talking for months about how she was getting ready to come out to here father, who was a very religious person. Her mother knew, and was not pleased, but accepted the situation but her parents were divorced and she felt it was time to tell dad. She went back to NH for Christmas and during that time told her dad. Her dad screamed and shouted and then suddenly grabbed her and choked her. She woke up on the front porch with a broken wrist and all her clothes and pictures and other belongings piled on top of her and blowing around the yard. She had her father arrested, but that was it, no more dad for the rest of her life.

I don't hate gay people. On my wife's side of the family, my favorite people are my gay nephew and his straight sister. Both great people, salt of the earth. The nephew, who I'll call Dan, went through the same shit you describe above when he was growing up. You cannot imagine a worse father to grow up gay under. His Dad was a drinker. He was loud and obnoxious when he drank. And, he loved to make snarky comments about gay people and tell offensive gay jokes. Most often, I told him he should give it a rest when he was going off about gays. And, I'm ashamed to say, sometimes when I got drunk, I would laugh with the dad when a joke was funny (but offensive none-the-less)

When Dan came out, I had to sit down with him and apologize for sometimes laughing at his dad's jokes. I told him that I realized how hard it must have been for him, although I knew I couldn't begin to understand how much pain we caused him. He forgave me, after some time had passed, and we enjoy each other's company now, even if we don't get to see each other as much as I would like.

His dad continued to make gay jokes and crass remarks after his son came out, sometimes with Dan present. I jump his shit about it 100% of the time when he does it, and it's gotten to where he very seldom says that shit nowadays, at least when I'm around.

At my office (of 30) a gay man is my third favorite person to work with, chat with and have lunch with. Of the dozen lawyers I've worked with in my career, a gay guy easily had the best combination of skill, knowledge, likability and ethics.

I bought a box of See's for a gay guy that went above and beyond to help me out when I worked in Seattle. I took a fair amount of ribbing for it for a long time afterward. I always took the teasing in stride and defended the fact that the guy didn't have to do what he did, I didn't ask him to so what he did, and what he did took no small amount of effort. He did it because he was a good man, and knew that, if he could pull it off, it would save me a lot of work.

So, no. I don't hate gay people. But I don't think much of people, gay or otherwise, who want to tell me what I should think and what should, or should not, offend me.

People often treat LGBT with such disdain it breaks my heart. So yes, sometimes we may be overzealous or louder than you may like, but there is a ton of history in those raised voices. When crandc is called a jihadist for speaking out for LGBT everywhere, she is speaking out for my friend who and for your relatives and for all those who are beaten up and thrown out of their house or even mainstream society. crandc is not a jihadist, she is hurting nobody, she is only trying to express her views and get more people to treat LGBT's with the same respect they would others.

Anyway, I appreciate your effort to mediate the dust-up Further.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

You said kid friendly. Go argue with yourself.

Actually, I was arguing with crandc, but you stuck your nose into it.

Go Blazers

 

[Further]

I don't hate gay people. On my wife's side of the family, my favorite people are my gay nephew and his straight sister. Both great people, salt of the earth. The nephew, who I'll call Dan, went through the same shit you describe above when he was growing up. You cannot imagine a worse father to grow up gay under. His Dad was a drinker. He was loud and obnoxious when he drank. And, he loved to make snarky comments about gay people and tell offensive gay jokes. Most often, I told him he should give it a rest when he was going off about gays. And, I'm ashamed to say, sometimes when I got drunk, I would laugh with the dad when a joke was funny (but offensive none-the-less)

When Dan came out, I had to sit down with him and apologize for sometimes laughing at his dad's jokes. I told him that I realized how hard it must have been for him, although I knew I couldn't begin to understand how much pain we caused him. He forgave me, after some time had passed, and we enjoy each other's company now, even if we don't get to see each other as much as I would like.

His dad continued to make gay jokes and crass remarks after his son came out, sometimes with Dan present. I jump his shit about it 100% of the time when he does it, and it's gotten to where he very seldom says that shit nowadays, at least when I'm around.

At my office (of 30) a gay man is my third favorite person to work with, chat with and have lunch with. Of the dozen lawyers I've worked with in my career, a gay guy easily had the best combination of skill, knowledge, likability and ethics.

I bought a box of See's for a gay guy that went above and beyond to help me out when I worked in Seattle. I took a fair amount of ribbing for it for a long time afterward. I always took the teasing in stride and defended the fact that the guy didn't have to do what he did, I didn't ask him to so what he did, and what he did took no small amount of effort. He did it because he was a good man, and knew that, if he could pull it off, it would save me a lot of work.

So, no. I don't hate gay people. But I don't think much of people, gay or otherwise, who want to tell me what I should think and what should, or should not, offend me.



Anyway, I appreciate your effort to mediate the dust-up Further.

Go Blazers

Out at a bar on my phone, not a good place to respond so ill be brief. I'm glad you treat people in your life, gay or otherwise with the respect they deserve. My next drink I raise to you.

 

[crandc]

Jesus please us, what is this bug up your ass about the Folsom Street Fair?

It is not presented as "kid friendly" or "family friendly". It's an adult event. (Funny, I don't see any outrage about all the hetero porn theaters and strip shows lining downtown San Francisco where thousands of tourist families walk ever day.) I personally don't go because leather isn't my scene but they are part of our community and this demonizing is getting damn old. Our movement did not start with nice respectable corporate types. The corporations and churches and politicians joined the party later, after those who could not fit in took the abuse for years. The drag queens and radical dykes and leatherpeople and nellie boys.

NO ONE has every shown anyone was harmed by the damn Folsom Street Fair. The only ones who claim harm is people who never went there but assume it harms someone somehow somewhere.

OTOH, millions of people have been and continue to be harmed by homophobia. Including the two gay men attacked outside a movie theater in Chelsea. And with the silent and sometimes not so silent applause of those who find our mere existence offensive.

(not sure where the Jews of Warsaw come in, but I don't want these posters to run off on yet another tangent)