Oden, the next Sam Bowie?

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BengalDuck said:
Because he's a rookie. Therefore, he's inconsistent. And especially, he's a rookie big man who generally take a lot longer to develop.
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That statement, on it's known, is just not true. Ewing, Robinson, Akeem, & Shaq were all good right away. The difference with Oden is that he got hurt and missed an entire season. But to say that all rookie big men average 8/8, it's just not true.
 
KingSpeed said:
That statement, on it's known, is just not true. Ewing, Robinson, Akeem, & Shaq were all good right away. The difference with Oden is that he got hurt and missed an entire season. But to say that all rookie big men average 8/8, it's just not true.
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How relevant are those comparisons?

Ewing played four years of college, coming to the NBA at 23. The Admiral played four years of college and two years of military service... he was probably 25 when he joined the Spurs. Olajuwon was 22. O'Neal the youngest at 20.

All four of those players are hall of famers (or future HOF's, at least). Isn't it ridiculous to compare any rookie to the very best at their position, ever? Should be slam Bayless because he's not as good as Jordan?

Better comparisons would be... Amare averaging 16 and 10. Yao 17 and 10. Garnett 13 and 8. Duncan 19 and 11. Illgauskus 17 and 11. Dirk 15 and 6. Kaman 10 and 9.

Those figures are rookie year stats, per 36 minutes.

Oden compares quite well to some of the best big men in the league, at 13 and 11.
 
As said in numerous other threads, Oden was bound to get into foul trouble yesterday because Sergio was guarding Harris.


I hate Nate, but he did a good job of recognizing that our smaller line up of Aldridge and Outlaw up front was giving them a harder time.

One of my biggest complaints with Nate is that he has no clue how to really use Oden. How many times is he at the top of the key as the swing man? About 90% is the answer I think. Oden shouldn't be that guy. Oden should plant his ass on the low block and destroy people.
 
Mediocre Man said:
As said in numerous other threads, Oden was bound to get into foul trouble yesterday because Sergio was guarding Harris.


I hate Nate, but he did a good job of recognizing that our smaller line up of Aldridge and Outlaw up front was giving them a harder time.

One of my biggest complaints with Nate is that he has no clue how to really use Oden. How many times is he at the top of the key as the swing man? About 90% is the answer I think. Oden shouldn't be that guy. Oden should plant his ass on the low block and destroy people.
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Ironically, KingSpeed addressed this whole thing in a different thread.



KingSpeed said:
<hr style="color: rgb(209, 209, 225); background-color: rgb(209, 209, 225);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --> <!-- message --> Oden didn't play in the fourth quarter. He played 13:23 against the Nets, finishing with two points and one rebound. "Pick and roll defense," McMillan explained. "We just couldn't contain them with a big lineup. When we had matchup of Greg trying to guard Devin. ... It was a tough matchup." ... Oden took the short night in stride. "Of course I want to play, but when we win, it doesn't really matter. But I want to be out there, I want to help th
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BengalDuck said:
I think you're full of shit. Just like you were full of shit when you came doom-and-glooming on the board when Oden got hurt against LA...trying to say he was out for the season or some bullshit.
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I never said Oden was out for the season. You'll have to link me up on that one.

Be something more than just a shock poster.
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I'm not even sure I've ever conversed with you. Seems to me that your outburst toward me makes you the "shock poster". :dunno:
 
BengalDuck said:
All four of those players are hall of famers (or future HOF's, at least). Isn't it ridiculous to compare any rookie to the very best at their position, ever? Should be slam Bayless because he's not as good as Jordan?

Oden compares quite well to some of the best big men in the league, at 13 and 11.
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Why is it ridiculous when even the Blazers felt they were getting a once-in-a-generation talent at center with the most coveted #1 overall pick since LeBron James?

I'm not saying it is fair to Greg, but it's not like he lowered expectations or kept a low profile after receiving all of the attention and praise in HS, at Ohio State, and after being drafted #1.

I understand protecting the guy, I do it myself when talking NBA with friends who are fans of other teams, but within the Blazer fan huddle, I don't see anything wrong with wondering why the guy is getting outplayed by Brook Lopez.
 
Some of you are being really unfair to Eric.

In fact, Bowie had a very good rookie season. The guy averaged just under 3 apg and 3 bpg. Those are numbers most vets would be happy with! He had more TOs, because he was a good enough passer that the team actually ran the offense thru him (as they had done with Walton).

Bowie and Oden were very different players. Bowie never showed the kind of athletic ability that Oden displayed in college. OTOH, he was widely praised for his "court smarts" (or "BBall IQ", or whatever term you prefer). His timing, positioning, and other fundamentals were rock solid. He was unselfish to a fault, and understood the importance of defense.

The Blazers screwed the pooch with Bowie because he was physically unsound. He had the skills to be a good NBA player.
 
BTW, here is a weird little bit of trivia:

Through his first 2 seasons, Bowie played in 114 games out of a possible 164. Over that same span, Michael Jordan only played in 100 games.
 
BengalDuck said:
How relevant are those comparisons?

Ewing played four years of college, coming to the NBA at 23. The Admiral played four years of college and two years of military service... he was probably 25 when he joined the Spurs. Olajuwon was 22. O'Neal the youngest at 20.
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Dude. You're so lost in this argument. All I said is that saying that it takes rookie centers longer to develop is not necessarily a true statement on its own since Ewing, Akeem, Shaq, and DRob played well from the outset. But I said that it's not the same because Oden missed a year. I wasn't comparing Oden to them so much as saying that the prior statement wasn't true. People are totally misunderstanding me in this thread. Read the thread. Read what I say. Read the blue post that I also posted in "Why so little time for Greg?"

And finally, Bowie had a GOOD rookie season. One of the main points of this thread was to show PROPS for Bowie who has gotten a bum rap in history merely because Jordan was drafted that year.
 
KingSpeed said:
Dude. You're so lost in this argument. All I said is that saying that it takes rookie centers longer to develop is not necessarily a true statement on its own since Ewing, Akeem, Shaq, and DRob played well from the outset.
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But they were older (except for Shaq, who had played two extra years of basketball). Don't those extra years factor into how long their development took?
 
KingSpeed said:
I was giving props to Sam Bowie. People equate him with being some horrible player. But he wasn't. He was a fine player who was hurt a lot. The only reason people make fun of him is because Jordan was drafted that year. But Durant is no Jordan so it's not like Greg Oden was a Sam Bowie type pick. That said, if Oden had Bowie's stats and made the All Rookie team, I'd be happy. Wouldn't you?
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Not if he had the same future as Bowie. Bowie didn't miss his first season because of injury so to compare their first season doesn't make sense. I'd much rather Oden have not as good season this year and have a great future than have a good season now and a future like Bowie by far!
 
Minstrel said:
But they were older (except for Shaq, who had played two extra years of basketball). Don't those extra years factor into how long their development took?
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Absolutely. I wasn't comparing Oden to them. I was merely saying that it's not true that all rookie centers struggle out of the gate.
 
mgb said:
Not if he had the same future as Bowie. Bowie didn't miss his first season because of injury so to compare their first season doesn't make sense. I'd much rather Oden have not as good season this year and have a great future than have a good season now and a future like Bowie by far!
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I agree with you.
 
PapaG said:
Oden was never in foul trouble tonight, was he?

I'll say this. Even in the Chicago game, Greg was left wide open at the FT line extended to lane off of a high post. He's a decent FT shooter, so why is he not shooting from there when given a 5' cushion. That stagnates the offense more than anybody dribbling IMO and could be seen as a reason for the slow starts.
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You know I've wonder the exact same thing. Many times he is left alone at or near the FT line and I'm surprise he doesn't take the shot. I know it's not the same as shooting a FT, but if it's practically uncontested I think he'd make the majority of them as long as he took his time. And if would help his game.
 
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