Oden

[Ed O]

Only someone who is nit picking and without an argument says something against using the term "All the time". It is pretty common for "All the time" to equate to "Most of the time" and usually context will clear up misconceptions. Too bad some go to that level of granularity. If someone can't understand it, oh well.

Well, words mean different things for a reason. I think that it's perfectly reasonable for someone to be expected to type what one means, rather than simply dismissing people who read what one types as what one means.



Ed O.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yeah, that's my perception. But I wanted to avoid saying "all the time," because I know that's not true. I haven't watched all the games. But I've watched quite a few and I tend to focus on Oden when he's in, because...well, his development is the most important thing, in terms of future title contention, IMO! My perception may be wrong...human perception is a tricky thing. I just have been surprised by how much defensive attention he draws.

Well it's because of the crowd buzz when he touches the ball.


Anyways, you have raised my attention to how teams are defending Oden . . . it will be fun to in the watch next few games. One of Oden's best games came against GS, so let's see how they deal with the big fella this time around.

 

[SnakeOiler]

Well, words mean different things for a reason. I think that it's perfectly reasonable for someone to be expected to type what one means, rather than simply dismissing people who read what one types as what one means.



Ed O.

So if I say your reply is "cheesy", does that make your reply a literal hunk of Tillamook Cheddar? Or should I say what I really mean?

 

[Ed O]

So if I say your reply is "cheesy", does that make your reply a literal hunk of Tillamook Cheddar? Or should I say what I really mean?

"All the time" is different from "most of the time".

There's a difference between being literal and being accurate.

Ed O.

 

[KingSpeed]

I disagree with the "but he's under so much pressure" excuse. Everyone who comes to this league is under pressure to prove that they belong. No one has been under more pressure than LeBron James was. That guy was given a 90 million dollar contract by Nike before he even played a game. And he handled all that pressure and delivered. When we won the #1 pick, I was hoping for that kind of player. KP said that both Durant and Oden were players that make an "immediate impact" on the team winning and that hasn't been true about either of them. It turns out that Oden is more of a project. Projects do pay off. Big sometimes. But he has not played like a once in a lifetime future hall of famer #1 pick. And that's disappointing. Will I wait for him to get better? Sure. I don't have a choice. I'll always be a Blazer fan and will root for the guys wearing the uniform.

Go Blazers

 

[alex42083]

Compare Greg's first game back against Miami and how he's playing now, and it's light years ahead and only getting a lot better. He just needs to learn how to stay on the floor.
Big men always take more time to develop... particularly a teenager coming out who just had MF surgery. I am not worried at all about Greg and whether he's a bust or not, because he's not. Expecting someone to play like a hall of famer at not even the halfway point in his first season is ridiculous.

 

[mgb]

I disagree with the "but he's under so much pressure" excuse. Everyone who comes to this league is under pressure to prove that they belong. No one has been under more pressure than LeBron James was. That guy was given a 90 million dollar contract by Nike before he even played a game. And he handled all that pressure and delivered. When we won the #1 pick, I was hoping for that kind of player. KP said that both Durant and Oden were players that make an "immediate impact" on the team winning and that hasn't been true about either of them. It turns out that Oden is more of a project. Projects do pay off. Big sometimes. But he has not played like a once in a lifetime future hall of famer #1 pick. And that's disappointing. Will I wait for him to get better? Sure. I don't have a choice. I'll always be a Blazer fan and will root for the guys wearing the uniform.

Go Blazers

When you make a statement like that you seem to be completely dismissing Oden haveing major surgery and being out over a year. James and Oden's situation is no where near the same so how can you compare the two? Makes no sense to me.

 

[KingSpeed]

Compare Greg's first game back against Miami and how he's playing now, and it's light years ahead and only getting a lot better. He just needs to learn how to stay on the floor.
Big men always take more time to develop... particularly a teenager coming out who just had MF surgery. I am not worried at all about Greg and whether he's a bust or not, because he's not. Expecting someone to play like a hall of famer at not even the halfway point in his first season is ridiculous.

Shaq played wayyyyyyyy better during his rookie season. So did Patrick. So did Akeem. So did David Robinson (and he took two years off from basketball after he was drafted.) The "but he's a rookie" excuse doesn't hold water for me either. It looks like Oden has the potential to be a good player but he's definitely not playing like a once in a lifetime #1 pick.

 

[KingSpeed]

When you make a statement like that you seem to be completely dismissing Oden haveing major surgery and being out over a year. James and Oden's situation is no where near the same so how can you compare the two? Makes no sense to me.

Before the surgery, Greg underwhelmed us all in summer league, but I know, I know, that's just summer league. But even then, when you go with the surgery excuse, it sucks that we got a guy who NEEDED surgery. We were hoping for more, no? It doesn't have to be Greg's fault for it to be true.

 

[MickZagger]

Shaq played wayyyyyyyy better during his rookie season. So did Patrick. So did Akeem. So did David Robinson (and he took two years off from basketball after he was drafted.) The "but he's a rookie" excuse doesn't hold water for me either. It looks like Oden has the potential to be a good player but he's definitely not playing like a once in a lifetime #1 pick.

Did any of those guys undergo major knee surgery before they stepped foot on an NBA court?

 

[mgb]

Before the surgery, Greg underwhelmed us all in summer league, but I know, I know, that's just summer league. But even then, when you go with the surgery excuse, it sucks that we got a guy who NEEDED surgery. We were hoping for more, no? It doesn't have to be Greg's fault for it to be true.

You are not even addressing the issue of how ridiculous the comparision to James is. It's gotten to the point where I'm just going to ignore you on this issue.

 

[Kaydow]

Compare Greg's first game back against Miami and how he's playing now, and it's light years ahead and only getting a lot better. He just needs to learn how to stay on the floor.
Big men always take more time to develop... particularly a teenager coming out who just had MF surgery. I am not worried at all about Greg and whether he's a bust or not, because he's not. Expecting someone to play like a hall of famer at not even the halfway point in his first season is ridiculous.

Light years? His 2nd game back: 11/11 vs NO. 3rd game back: 13/8 vs Min. 4th game bacK: 22/10 vs GS.
You're not going to try and tell us he's doing things better now that don't show up in the stat sheet, are you?
I don't see improvement yet. At least not consistantly. He'll have a game like at home vs Toronto where he had 16/10 vs O'Neil and Bosh, and then he has those nights where he fouls out in 13 minutes.

I'll admit, my expectations were too high. Despite what my eyes told me (I watched him 15 times at Ohio State) I thought we were getting a once/decade big man. He didn't dominate collegiately by any means, but he was solid and we gave him the benefit of the doubt b/c of his broken hand. But he looked raw and slow with the ball in the post back then, even before the surgery. His defense looked good though. He got in his share of foul trouble, but he blocked/altered many-a-shot. So, I thought maybe 14/10/2 this year, I'll admit. I thought his size and strength would account for the points, even if he was slow/clumbsy in the post sometimes. Maybe some garbage points, putbacks, etc. I thought a Bill Russell type is what Greg would be - that his defense from day one would be game changing (even if his offense sputtered at times) I've adjusted my expectations.
I don't expect Greg to be a shoe in HOF'er anymore - he may never see an All Star Game. Maybe, I don't know. But if all he ever amounts to is a solid, workman-like big man who plays hard, smart, brings some toughness . . . I'm okay with that. I think we can win w/o Greg being an All Star. He's our guy - we drafted him and we aren't going to trade him. Nobody's calling him a bust. Everybody realizes he's 20 and only has 30 games under his belt. I hope Greg knows we're all pulling for him. So what if he's not Shaq? Or Bill Russell? Or even Dwight Howard? He can still help us win.

 

[alex42083]

Light years? His 2nd game back: 11/11 vs NO. 3rd game back: 13/8 vs Min. 4th game bacK: 22/10 vs GS.
You're not going to try and tell us he's doing things better now that don't show up in the stat sheet, are you?
I don't see improvement yet. At least not consistantly. He'll have a game like at home vs Toronto where he had 16/10 vs O'Neil and Bosh, and then he has those nights where he fouls out in 13 minutes.

Yes, I'm telling you that he's improved without having to look at stats. Did you see that first game back against Miami? He got tired within the first two-three trips up the court, he wasn't reacting to anything defensively, he stood there like a slow Godzilla just waving his arms in the air, and his offense was putrid.

Now? He's shown an ability to shoot a hook with either hand. He's stepped out and shot a square-up jumper twice, he has shown an ability to switch on the pick and roll and move his feet. When he's out there, good things happen.
Not saying he's at a hall of fame level yet, but the next step is learning how to not foul all the time.

If you can't see any improvement since that first game, you're blind.

 

[Entity]

I think when you haven't been scouted well enough because there just isn't that much tape on you, you can take advantage of your own mystery. Eventually teams will have a pretty good idea of who you are, and they'll learn how to play you up, and you'll be less productive until you improve your game.

 

[alex42083]

Shaq played wayyyyyyyy better during his rookie season. So did Patrick. So did Akeem. So did David Robinson (and he took two years off from basketball after he was drafted.) The "but he's a rookie" excuse doesn't hold water for me either. It looks like Oden has the potential to be a good player but he's definitely not playing like a once in a lifetime #1 pick.

I think you'll regret pounding on the guy the next 2-3 years and into the next decade.

 

[mook]

I'll admit, my expectations were too high. Despite what my eyes told me (I watched him 15 times at Ohio State) I thought we were getting a once/decade big man. He didn't dominate collegiately by any means, but he was solid and we gave him the benefit of the doubt b/c of his broken hand. But he looked raw and slow with the ball in the post back then, even before the surgery. His defense looked good though. He got in his share of foul trouble, but he blocked/altered many-a-shot. So, I thought maybe 14/10/2 this year, I'll admit. I thought his size and strength would account for the points, even if he was slow/clumbsy in the post sometimes. Maybe some garbage points, putbacks, etc. I thought a Bill Russell type is what Greg would be - that his defense from day one would be game changing (even if his offense sputtered at times) I've adjusted my expectations.
I don't expect Greg to be a shoe in HOF'er anymore - he may never see an All Star Game. Maybe, I don't know. But if all he ever amounts to is a solid, workman-like big man who plays hard, smart, brings some toughness . . . I'm okay with that. I think we can win w/o Greg being an All Star. He's our guy - we drafted him and we aren't going to trade him. Nobody's calling him a bust. Everybody realizes he's 20 and only has 30 games under his belt. I hope Greg knows we're all pulling for him. So what if he's not Shaq? Or Bill Russell? Or even Dwight Howard? He can still help us win.

My expectations were too high also. I'd thought he was going to be a 15/10 guy this year. Doesn't seem likely now.

That said, I still expect him to be a future HOF'er. I still expect him to be one of (if not the) most dominating centers in the league for a decade. It's just going to take a full season for him to recover from injury, and probably another year to fully adjust to the game.

Right now he's the strongest, biggest guy on the court against all but a few teams. You look at guys who are his size and have his strength, and you have Yao, Shaq, Howard, Bynum, Dampier. Oden is already at least as good as Dampier, and maybe a step behind Bynum.

It's just a matter of time before he's in the Yao/Shaq/Howard arena of skill, and maybe even in Howard's level of speed.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Yes, I'm telling you that he's improved without having to look at stats. .

This is the kind of statement I can relate too, and agree.

I don't know Greg's pers from his first few games to now, I know he just came off a game where he was a non factor and played very little, which I think could be shown through stas that he isn't improving.

But just from watching him game to game, he is improving.

 

[HailBlazers]

Odamnnn

Before the surgery, Greg underwhelmed us all in summer league, but I know, I know, that's just summer league. But even then, when you go with the surgery excuse, it sucks that we got a guy who NEEDED surgery. We were hoping for more, no? It doesn't have to be Greg's fault for it to be true.

KINGSPEED: Words of advice, don't ever try to play the stock market. You obliviously have no concept of Long-Term dividends. Oden is a diamond who was waiting to be polished. Unlike Durant who was as prepared as the best of them. Yes they gave Greg the season ending surgery but he didn't NEED it to play last year. He needs it to play the next ten years. When KP and the Blazers picked GO they picked up an investment in the future of the Blazers franchise not an immediate payoff. Its all part of the bigger plan to grow a team that will develop and peak once all the current powerhouses are on the decline. If you haven't heard or figured out the BLAZING plan by now than your either an ignorant fan or a really dumb one. You can't just blaze a trail to the top without a plan!

 

[HailBlazers]

Furthermore: The main reason Greg gets so many fouls (besides inexperience), is because his shocking agility for a big man. Its amazing how he can stay with guys by moving his feet, its not until the last step that the guy bumps or falls into him that he gets called for a foul. His agility is unreal for a big man. Once he masters his timing he will be a dominate defensive force!

 

[oldmangrouch]

Did any of those guys undergo major knee surgery before they stepped foot on an NBA court?

Do you really want to go there?

Sam Bowie went under the knife twice during his college career.....and still had a better rookie year than Oden.

Bowie will always be remembered as a huge bust - with plenty of justification - but people forget *why* Dr Jack was so determined to draft him. Bowie had a tremendous BBall IQ. His passing ability was light years beyond Oden. He was a more consistent shot-blocker and rebounder because his timing and postioning was excellent. He also didn't accumulate dumb fouls.

Oden is a classic example of someone who has dominated since grade school based on raw talent, without really learning how to play the game! Now that he is no longer physically dominant, he doesn't know what to do. Add in his frequent lack of passion, and I really question how good he will ever be.

Flame away, but that is honestly how I feel.

 

[Ed O]

Bowie will always be remembered as a huge bust - with plenty of justification - but people forget *why* Dr Jack was so determined to draft him. Bowie had a tremendous BBall IQ. His passing ability was light years beyond Oden. He was a more consistent shot-blocker and rebounder because his timing and postioning was excellent. He also didn't accumulate dumb fouls.

He also was a 23 year-old rookie... he was named to the 1980 Olympic team, four years before he was drafted, for crying out loud! Of course he's going to be more advanced than GO at age 21.

Let's compare Oden in two seasons to Bowie as a rookie to make a more realistic and fair comparison.

Ed O.

 

[HailBlazers]

Add in his frequent lack of passion, and I really question how good he will ever be.

Flame away, but that is honestly how I feel.

Lack of Passion? Im sure you've met him and seen him practice, and rehabilitate. Just because his facial expressions are subdued doesn't mean squat. You Don't Know Him, and you don't know SHIT.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Lack of Passion? Im sure you've met him and seen him practice, and rehabilitate. Just because his facial expressions are subdued doesn't mean squat. You Don't Know Him, and you don't know SHIT.

I've been following the NBA since before the Blazers existed, and I'm getting called out by some teenager with an attitude. Gawd, I love this board!

 

[Minstrel]

Despite what my eyes told me (I watched him 15 times at Ohio State) I thought we were getting a once/decade big man. He didn't dominate collegiately by any means

None of Shaq, Robinson, Duncan, Ewing, Mourning dominated in college as a freshman. I don't know why that has any bearing on whether he's a once-per-decade big man.

 

[Ed O]

I've been following the NBA since before the Blazers existed, and I'm getting called out by some teenager with an attitude. Gawd, I love this board!

C'mon, OMG. Someone finally pointed out that you don't know SHIT.

Just man up and admit that you don't know SHIT!



Ed O.
P.S. Also "You Don't Know Him". Notice the caps so you can use it as the title of the book you've been wanting to write about your NBA ignorance.

 

[Entity]

I like the blind assumption that OMG doesn't know Greg Oden. That would usually be a safe bet for most fans, but I know of at least two or three posters here that do.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Edit - wow, its amazing how some people here flip-flop every week on Oden. Can't really take 'em seriously.

 

[oldmangrouch]

He also was a 23 year-old rookie... he was named to the 1980 Olympic team, four years before he was drafted, for crying out loud! Of course he's going to be more advanced than GO at age 21.

Let's compare Oden in two seasons to Bowie as a rookie to make a more realistic and fair comparison.

Ed O.

The argument about age/experience is valid - up to a point. Keep in mind that Oden has been compared to Shaq (or whoever), while as far back as high-school Bowie was being compared to Bill Walton. I'm not sure he had the brain of Walton ....but I would at least compare him to Sabonis.

Oden may have worked his butt off on his physical rehab - but I'll make you a friendly wager he didn't spend any of that year watching games films! He just isn't a student of the game like Roy, Duncan, etc.

 

[oldmangrouch]

C'mon, OMG. Someone finally pointed out that you don't know SHIT.

Just man up and admit that you don't know SHIT!



Ed O.
P.S. Also "You Don't Know Him". Notice the caps so you can use it as the title of the book you've been wanting to write about your NBA ignorance.

When I get around to writing that book, I'll be sure to mention you in the credits!

 

[oldmangrouch]

Just for the record, I HOPE I am wrong about the kid.

With hard work, he should improve physically.

He may never be Walton/Russell, but his court smarts can also improve with experience.

Will his intensity improve? He has a great role-model in Joel. Pryz doesn't know the meaning of "cruise control!"

In the meantime, people need to be less defensive about critical comments.