Official 2013 Draft thread (2 Viewers)

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RoyToy said:
Just admit the Ariza comparison was bad. He'll be much better than Ariza.
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I admit nothing! For one thing, I said he was an Ariza, which is an archetype term I use to refer to a SF who just does the role-player SF things that Ariza does and gets wildly overrated for it. Just as Ariza himself was when he did it for a Lakers championship team. Barnes better be a lot better than that given how high he was drafted. However, he was billed as a lot more versatile than he has shown. Now, maybe he is, and his play is a function of the coach, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he's Paul Pierce in hiding (which is what he was billed as when people were saying he should be #1 pick in the draft when he signed for UNC). Actually he's doing what he should: he was slammed for being very inefficient in college, perhaps because he was being asked to do things he's not great at. If he focuses on the Ariza staples he'll carve a nice role-player career for himself.
 
Way late on the Dieng/Festus discussion, but here's my $0.02. Obviously they get compared to one another because they're older, defensive minded, shot blocking, athletic, long, older-than-average, African born C's. Dieng is certainly better on offense, but that's more of a commentary on Festus' complete lack of offense. Dieng seems like the more natural bball player, but as awkward an unatural as Festus can be, hes got great instincts on defense and hes been well coached.

I actually think something that really sets them apart is their physical attributes. They're exactly the same height without shoes (6'9.75), but Festus came in a whopping 34 lbs heavier at the combine despite virtually identical body fat percentages. Festus goes under the radar as far as how much of an athletic specimen he is. Guy moves and jumps like guys 20-30 lbs lighter and at the same time he can go one-on-one with the Dwight Howards, Hibberts, Al Jeffersons, etc. and he won't be overpowered. Festus is really a pretty traditional defensive minded C with no offense whose mobility really adds a dynamic that most 5's don't have. Dieng is more of a lightweight, springy, svelte 5 who can hit an open shot alright. He'll block some shots but hes not really a space eater and could get murdered by the big, heavy 4s and 5s.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I admit nothing! For one thing, I said he was an Ariza, which is an archetype term I use to refer to a SF who just does the role-player SF things that Ariza does and gets wildly overrated for it. Just as Ariza himself was when he did it for a Lakers championship team. Barnes better be a lot better than that given how high he was drafted. However, he was billed as a lot more versatile than he has shown. Now, maybe he is, and his play is a function of the coach, but I haven't seen anything to suggest that he's Paul Pierce in hiding (which is what he was billed as when people were saying he should be #1 pick in the draft when he signed for UNC). Actually he's doing what he should: he was slammed for being very inefficient in college, perhaps because he was being asked to do things he's not great at. If he focuses on the Ariza staples he'll carve a nice role-player career for himself.
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I don't even try to make predictions for Barnes because its hard to project him. But I think its safe to say hes already hitting shots that Ariza or someone in that mold- Danny Green and Kawhi Leonard are fresh in my mind for example- can't hit. His handle is spotty but he gets to the rim much better than any of the above because hes got a good first step and hes got a pretty ridiculous size-strength-speed ratio. The reason he was initially compared to Pierce at all is because he flashed glimpses of that pull up mid-range J that's pretty fugging hard to stop because they're big guys and you have to respect their drive. That portion of his game on display quite a bit in these playoffs.

Like you said though, no ones really made the Pierce comparison since he started playing at UNC. By the time he was drafted people had soured on him and then he got a bit of a boost with his combine numbers, but he wouldn't have lasted until the 7th pick if everyone still thought he was going to be Paul Pierce reincarnated. A lot of Warrior fans think his upside is Jamal Mashburn or Rashard Lewis. Prime Richard Jefferson seems feasible to me as well. I think its pretty reasonable to say his upside is a borderline or one or two time all-star. He could not reach his upside and just end up as a role player, but I think hes already more dynamic on offense than a defense-and-corner-3's kind of SF.
 
Run BJM said:
Like you said though, no ones really made the Pierce comparison since he started playing at UNC. By the time he was drafted people had soured on him and then he got a bit of a boost with his combine numbers, but he wouldn't have lasted until the 7th pick if everyone still thought he was going to be Paul Pierce reincarnated.
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Well, Paul Pierce was drafted at 10, wasn't he?

A lot of Warrior fans think his upside is Jamal Mashburn or Rashard Lewis.
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I don't see it. Mashburn was much more skilled (people have forgotten) and beefier, too. And Rashard Lewis is about 6'10". But I guess Lewis has a similar skill set.

Prime Richard Jefferson seems feasible to me as well.
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Maybe.

I think its pretty reasonable to say his upside is a borderline or one or two time all-star.
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Hey, if it's good enough for Jamaal Magloire...
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Well, Paul Pierce was drafted at 10, wasn't he?
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Ginobili was taken in the second round, we don't assume everyone taken in the 2nd round will be as good or better.

Hey, if it's good enough for Jamaal Magloire...
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Hell of a lot better than Trevor Ariza.
 
For those interested:

Jonathan Givony ‏@DraftExpress 11m
DX Podcast: Jonathan Givony on Yahoo! Sports Radio http://www.draftexpress.com/article/DX-Podcast-Jonathan-Givony-on-Yahoo-Sports-Radio-4208 … Talking Nerlens Noel, Int'l Prospects, Cody Zeller, Shabazz & more

Topics Include:
-Is this a weak draft?
-Why the 2013 draft could be similar to the 2011 draft
-Is Nerlens Noel the #1 pick by default?
-Is the NBA love affair with international players over?
-Have NBA teams learned their lesson that super talents don't exist outside of the United States?
-Do international prospects feel like they need to be validated by playing in the NBA?
-Why has Shabazz Muhammad's draft stock fallen and what kind of NBA prospect is he?
-The NBA one and done rule and why David Stern implemented it
-Is Cody Zeller overrated?
-Can a player who didn't look great in college become a better pro because of the NBA style of play? Is Cody Zeller an example of that?
-What kind of NBA prospect is Kelly Olynyk?
-This draft's point guard class. Trey Burke, Michael Carter-Williams, C.J. McCollum, Shane Larkin and Dennis Schroeder
-What kind of NBA prospect is Tony Mitchell?
-Kentavious Caldwell-Pope
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Back to Shabazz.....one thing I do like about him for the Blazers is at the SG position he is big and physical and likes to attack the basket and get to the line. That is something we lack on this team.

Other than Lillard no one attacks the basket. And quite frankly I prefer Lillard to only do it in small doses because we can't afford to get him hurt. But Shabazz is big enough to handle the hits. And he likes the contact.

No doubt he has lost some luster as a top pick, but his strengths could help us.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2013/05/2013_nba_draft_shabazz_muhammad.html
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Back to Shabazz.....one thing I do like about him for the Blazers is at the SG position he is big and physical and likes to attack the basket and get to the line. That is something we lack on this team.

Other than Lillard no one attacks the basket. And quite frankly I prefer Lillard to only do it in small doses because we can't afford to get him hurt. But Shabazz is big enough to handle the hits. And he likes the contact.

No doubt he has lost some luster as a top pick, but his strengths could help us.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2013/05/2013_nba_draft_shabazz_muhammad.html
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Although as some have said its a lazy comparison but if he cant get to the line like Harden that would add a lot of value and open up things quite a bit. His passing is nowhere near Harden but getting to the line would be a much needed skill for our team.
 
Chad Ford ‏@chadfordinsider 2m
At P3 in Santa Barbara today for Shabazz Muhammad workout. Strength training this morning. Basketball this afternoon.
 
Ben Golliver ‏@blazersedge 59s
Ford: Blazers Could Have Interest In C.J. McCollum, Dario Saric & Kentavious Caldwell-Pope http://sbn.to/118vR2B

C.J. McCollum: Teams can take a deep breath: McCollum's foot is OK. His performance in the athletic testing portion of the combine paired with a strong workout in New York on Friday should put any concerns to rest. He obviously will continue to get more explosive as time goes on, but what's there is already good. The same can be said about his shooting, as he looks effortless moving out to the NBA 3-point line. The Suns, Wolves, Blazers and Thunder look like his best bets in the lottery.

Dario Saric: Saric continues to play very well in the Croatian playoffs. Unfortunately, he won't be able to come to the U.S. to do individual workouts for teams. He has national team obligations as soon as the season ends. That has forced several teams to make the pilgrimage to Croatia to check him out. The Pelicans, Blazers and Mavs appear to be the three teams most likely to grab him in the lottery.

Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: Caldwell-Pope didn't particularly shoot it well in workouts, but the more I speak with GMs and scouts, the more likely it seems that he's going somewhere in the mid-to-late lottery. Not only are teams attracted to his shooting ability and size but many feel as if he has a great grasp for the game and could be special someday. I could see him going to a team such as the Pistons, Wolves, Blazers or Sixers.
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Boise Blazer said:
Ben Golliver ‏@blazersedge 59s
Ford: Blazers Could Have Interest In C.J. McCollum, Dario Saric & Kentavious Caldwell-Pope http://sbn.to/118vR2B
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I can't see McCollum there at 10. But if he is I take him for sure. Yes he is small for SG, but he and Wes would give us two good options depending who the opponents are. This guy can flat out score. Small ball with Liilard would be fun for a portion of each game.
 
Saric seems like the darkhorse.

Do you take.the chance on a slow-footed PF with an "elite" feel for the game?
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Saric seems like the darkhorse.

Do you take.the chance on a slow-footed PF with an "elite" feel for the game?
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He seems like a bit of a tweener SF/PF... and one who's not a very good shooter nor very athletic.

I hope he's off the board before we pick, because while I like his youth and the skills he does have, it seems like he's got holes in his game that might not go away and I wonder how well he'd fit on our roster.

Ed O.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Back to Shabazz.....one thing I do like about him for the Blazers is at the SG position he is big and physical and likes to attack the basket and get to the line. That is something we lack on this team.

Other than Lillard no one attacks the basket. And quite frankly I prefer Lillard to only do it in small doses because we can't afford to get him hurt. But Shabazz is big enough to handle the hits. And he likes the contact.

No doubt he has lost some luster as a top pick, but his strengths could help us.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2013/05/2013_nba_draft_shabazz_muhammad.html
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Indeed, do like the sound of this:

Muhammad's style of play is highly unconventional, as he rarely scores in isolation or pick and roll settings in the half-court, seeing just 6% of his offense in these situations. Instead, he gets most of his points leaking out in transition, moving off the ball, as a spot-up shooter, posting up relentlessly, crashing the offensive glass, and coming off short curls in the mid-range area where he's only forced to put the ball on the floor once or twice to get all the way to the basket. He gets to the free throw line nearly seven times per-40, which is a testament to his aggressiveness and scoring instincts more than anything, as well as his ability to overpower opposing players.
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[in response to quote by HailBlazers]^^^Yup - that sounds pretty nice! Initially his low APG worried me, but after reading about how he was used by UCLA I'm not as concerned. And with Lillard and Batum we've already got two good play-makers on the floor - we need someone like Shabazz who will attack the hoop, but not need the ball in his hands in order to do so.
 
Descriptions of Shabazz's game make me think of Corey Maggette. And I don't want to have to do that.
 
I think I may undervalue pure scoring, but everybody else seems to WAY overvalue it. Someone like Tony Allen is way more useful than someone like Marcus Thornton. Or OJ Mayo. Or Kevin Martin. Or Monta Ellis.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I think I may undervalue pure scoring, but everybody else seems to WAY overvalue it. Someone like Tony Allen is way more useful than someone like Marcus Thornton. Or OJ Mayo. Or Kevin Martin. Or Monta Ellis.
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Or Manu Ginobili or James Harden? It's a piece to a puzzle that every contender needs.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
I think I may undervalue pure scoring, but everybody else seems to WAY overvalue it. Someone like Tony Allen is way more useful than someone like Marcus Thornton. Or OJ Mayo. Or Kevin Martin. Or Monta Ellis.
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I was reading an article last week that showed how to win an NBA title based on past teams. all but 2 had at least one top 5 player or a top 5 defensive player. I think the old saying that defense wins championships is taken for granted by a lot of people.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I was reading an article last week that showed how to win an NBA title based on past teams. all but 2 had at least one top 5 player or a top 5 defensive player. I think the old saying that defense wins championships is taken for granted by a lot of people.
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Someone else pointed out recently that unless a player is an MVP-level guy (Lebron, Kobe, Duncan), your title-winning defensive studs are generally not lottery guys. Drafting in the lottery primarily for defense is a bad deal.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Someone else pointed out recently that unless a player is an MVP-level guy (Lebron, Kobe, Duncan), your title-winning defensive studs are generally not lottery guys. Drafting in the lottery primarily for defense is a bad deal.
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That's why you need to draft BPA and not for need in the lottery. It's so important not to miss with those picks. Honestly, BPA any spot in the draft
 
I think Memphis proved last night you need more than just great D. No doubt you need a great defensive unit, but if you don't have multiple go to players, you are in trouble. Defense does win championships as log as you have someone to take over on the offensive end when the game is on the line.
 
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