Official 2013 Draft thread (1 Viewer)

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Zeller over Len.

The Pau comparison for him is a great one. Plays a great high low game, can pass out of the post well, the best footwork in college basketball in a long time, great bounce and has a wirey strength about him.
 
I was just going to say that -- Offensively, Zeller's ceiling is Pau Gasol.
 
PapaG said:
I saw Zeller live two times last year at the NCAA tournament at the Rose Garden. Runs the court well, nice touch, good size. Didn't seem real physical, though, and didn't dominate a small New Mexico State , but did have a 16/13 game against VCU.

He'll be a better NBA player than his brother, though.
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I hated Tyler Zeller as an NBA prospect, absolutely agree Cody will be better. Yes, Tyler was skilled, had great size, and was extremely productive in college. But he NEVER extends all the way on any of his post moves, which isn't going to work in the NBA. Hes not very athletic as an NBA guy and lacks strength, hes going to be a liability on defense.

Cody's offensive game ought to translate to the NBA. Hes got more counter moves in the post and he does extend all the way on his shots. Just more dynamic, whereas T. Zeller relied heavily on a baby hook that he exposes around his head too much (6'8 college C's can't bother it but NBA guys won't let that shit by). Cody seems to have better upper body strength as well.
 
James McAdoo's stock will rise high come March Madness. This dude is a top 10 pick for sure
 
BigGameDamian said:
James McAdoo's stock will rise high come March Madness. This dude is a top 10 pick for sure
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I've been a pretty harsh critic of his since all the mocks had him top five this past summer, but I don't think he'll slip as far as most of the reliable mocks have had him sliding (ie: #20 on ESPN, #17 on Draftexpress). The guy's got his flaws, and I don't think he'll ever be a great NBA player, but he's definitely a late lotto talent at the worst.

I've got a question for you though, seeing how you're a fan of his... do you see him as a wing or a power forward on the next level?
 
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NOVoodoo said:
I've been a pretty harsh critic of his since all the mocks had him top five this past summer, but I don't think he'll slip as far as most of the reliable mocks have had him sliding (ie: #20 on ESPN, #17 on Draftexpress). The guy's got his flaws, and I don't think he'll ever be a great NBA player, but he's definitely a late lotto talent at the worst.

I've got a question for you though, seeing how you're a fan of his... do you see him as a wing or a power forward on the next level?
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He can probably play both positions, very versatile player. He's kind of like a James Worthy.
 
BigGameDamian said:
He can probably play both positions, very versatile player. He's kind of like a James Worthy.
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I really don't see that when I watch him play. I know that I'm in the minority that wants him to be developed purely as a four, but I'm sort of disappointed with the way that North Carolina has handled his development. If they had him working on his post game 24/7, he could be a deadly big man, but just because he's better than most big men in terms of his perimeter abilities (quickness, ball-handling, etc.) is no reason to imagine him as a part-time three, much less a full-time one. What's so wrong with being a stretch four?

I'm just saying, if I'm drafting McAdoo, I'm not doing it with visions of James Worthy in mind. If I'm drafting the guy to be my four off the bench early on and eventually develop into my go-to-post player offensively, I want a guy that has a more complete back-to-the-basket game but can still occasionally be able to run the pick-and-pop or create space on occasion. I don't want a guy that's confused about what his role is and is trying to play like the "prototypical NBA wing" when he's better suited as a post player.
 
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Shabazz looked real nice tonight. He'll be good, but I don't think he's can't miss superstar like some.

FYI, he goes left.

BTW, Bill Walton is doing some select Pac-12 games for ESPN and he's hilarious. I miss him.
 
MickZagger said:
BTW, Bill Walton is doing some select Pac-12 games for ESPN and he's hilarious. I miss him.
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love bill walton. I wish the Blazers would dump harvey, and have him do color on the radio. Or, have a 3 man team with Mike, Mike and Bill. Him and Rice would be hysterical to listen to.
 
He said, "They need 10 point shooters". As Arizona was chucking up 3's with under 1:00 to go.
 
The more I watch Trey Burke the more I think he's a top of the lottery type talent. Top 10 at least. I don't understand how these mocks have him in the late teen's- 20's.
 
MickZagger said:
Shabazz looked real nice tonight. He'll be good, but I don't think he's can't miss superstar like some.
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I agree that he's not a can't miss superstar, but I do think he's a can't miss good player, for whatever that's worth. His ceiling is pretty high but so is his worst case scenario.

It's hard to decide between him and Noel at this point. I like Noel's size and defensive instincts, but his game has gaping holes. He could really benefit by another year or two of college.

I don't think that any of the #1 pick candidates have really done much to differentiate themselves from the crowd this year. If the draft were held today, you'd have four players that would legitimately be in the discussion for the #1 (Muhammad, Zeller, Noel, and gaining some steam according to ESPN, McLemore).

MickZagger said:
The more I watch Trey Burke the more I think he's a top of the lottery type talent. Top 10 at least. I don't understand how these mocks have him in the late teen's- 20's.
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Agreed 100%. Just looking at Draftexpress, they have Carter-Williams #8 and Burke #18 (ESPN has them at #8 and #17 respectively). If the draft were held tomorrow though, I think I'd lean towards Burke over Carter-Williams.

The game I'm looking forward to this weekend is Maryland at Duke. This should be a real litmus test for both Len and Plumlee. I'm wonder how Len will do against a more skilled, athletic opponent, and how will Plumlee perform against someone with legitimate NBA size and defensive instincts.
 
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NOVoodoo said:
I agree that he's not a can't miss superstar, but I do think he's a can't miss good player, for whatever that's worth. His ceiling is pretty high but so is his worst case scenario.

It's hard to decide between him and Noel at this point. I like Noel's size and defensive instincts, but his game has gaping holes. He could really benefit by another year or two of college.

I don't think that any of the #1 pick candidates have really done much to differentiate themselves from the crowd this year. If the draft were held today, you'd have four players that would legitimately be in the discussion for the #1 (Muhammad, Zeller, Noel, and McLemore).



Agreed 100%. Just looking at Draftexpress, they have Carter-Williams #8 and Burke #18 (ESPN has them at #8 and #17 respectively). If the draft were held tomorrow though, I think I'd lean towards Burke over Carter-Williams.

The game I'm looking forward to this weekend is Maryland at Duke. This should be a real litmus test for both Len and Plumlee. I'm wonder how Len will do against a more skilled, athletic opponent, and how will Plumlee perform against someone with legitimate NBA size and defensive instincts.
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I've seen Carter-Williams about 3-4 times and I don't get the hype. I watched the game against Cincinnati this Monday. He made some jaw dropping athletic plays, has great size, but is skinny, doesn't play smart and isn't assertive.
 
MickZagger said:
I've seen Carter-Williams about 3-4 times and I don't get the hype. I watched the game against Cincinnati this Monday. He made some jaw dropping athletic plays, has great size, but is skinny, doesn't play smart and isn't assertive.
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A lot is made of his apg, but when you factor in the turnovers, it's not so impressive. Trey Burke has a 3.8 A/TO ratio, whereas Carter-Williams is only sitting at a 2.4 A/TO, despite his ridiculous apg. I guess his 6'6" height is a factor with the mocks, but when you're not physically strong and don't create a lot of offense for yourself, does your height really matter that much as a point guard?
 
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NOVoodoo said:
A lot is made of his apg, but when you factor in the turnovers, it's not so impressive. Trey Burke has a 3.8 A/TO ratio, whereas Carter-Williams only sitting at a 2.4 A/TO, despite his ridiculous apg. I guess his 6'6" height is a factor with the mocks, but when you're not bulky and don't create a lot of offense for yourself, does your height really matter that much?
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Reminds me a little of Shaun Livingston.
 
MickZagger said:
Reminds me a little of Shaun Livingston.
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I can see that.

Call me crazy, but when it comes to point guards with a high turnover rate, I'm actually a fan of Phil Pressey. His turnover numbers are ridiculous, but I think he's just been responsible for too much in Missouri's offense at the moment. Turnovers are usually very telling, but I still think Pressey is a really good decision maker and a great quarterback of the offense. His height limits him as well, but if I'm a playoff team with a late first round pick, I'd love to have him on my team. In 10-20 mpg and playing with NBA talent, he won't be putting up the same turnover numbers. He's not like Louisville's two guards, Smith and Siva, who both gamble and play out of control. He's actually got great court vision and sort of defies the conventional wisdom as a "turnover prone player" that plays under control.

The numbers are damning, but even after watching games where he turns the ball over five times, I still have the impression that he'll be a good floor general on the next level in a reserve role.
 
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Pressey is good. Just way too small and not athletic enough to overshadow his size. Great college player though.

I've watched Siva since he was in high school. Great college player, fast, athletic, good playmaker. The only way I see him making it in the league though is if he gets on late in the 2nd or undrafted and earns a roster spot, kinda like Isaiah Thomas did.
 
MickZagger said:
Pressey is good. Just way too small and not athletic enough to overshadow his size. Great college player though.

I've watched Siva since he was in high school. Great college player, fast, athletic, good playmaker. The only way I see him making it in the league though is if he gets on late in the 2nd or undrafted and earns a roster spot, kinda like Isaiah Thomas did.
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Pressey's sort of like a more in-shape Mateen Cleaves. His physical attributes will definitely limit him on the next level, but playing with a more talented core in an offense that demands less of him, I think he can definitely carve a 10-20 mpg niche for himself in the league, playing for a contender. He's one of those guys you'll be able to throw into the game when your star pg is getting rest on the bench, and while he won't carry the offense like a starter, he's a smart enough point guard that your offense won't fall apart by having him on the floor, and a lot of good teams could use that.

Siva's definitely got an NBA game, and he's had that game since he first came into Louisville, but he still has the same things holding him back now that held him back then. He's talented as hell, but he's still erratic. He's got a better chance to make it on a roster than a lot of projected second rounders, but that doesn't mean that I would necessarily want him logging minutes for my team.

Siva's not as bad as Russ Smith though. I don't understand his rise in the mocks. He's even more erratic than Siva and gambles all the time. I understand that when you have a defender like Dieng holding down the paint, you have a little more freedom to gamble, but it seems like he's always trying to make the home-run play, and the fans/scouts have become so enamored with the home-run plays that work that they've lost sight of his deficiencies.
 
Just turned on the Maryland-Duke game. Never seen Len before. Its only been a few minutes, but I'm not very impressed by Len. Plumlee burned him one on one in the post twice in a row, and hes not exactly dominating on the glass or when challenging penetrators. FWIW though the game is @Duke and the whole MD team looks overwhelmed, they're not getting Len the ball in the post at all.
 
lol @ those Zoolander looking warmups the Maryland guys are wearing on their bench.
 
Pretty damn unimpressive performance from Len, though as I said above, his whole team looked like crap. Plumlee owned him. Hes quite mobile for a guy his size but hes a pretty slow jumper, seems kind of weak, and just lacks technique defensively. Only saw one play where he had the ball in the post, and it looked awful. Even just dribbling the ball with his back to the basket looked awkward and the turnaround shot he put up was dog shit. Obviously Duke is a good team, but I was expecting a bit more of a battle between him and Plumlee/Duke front line, but he pretty much did nothing.
 
RR7 said:
love bill walton. I wish the Blazers would dump harvey, and have him do color on the radio. Or, have a 3 man team with Mike, Mike and Bill. Him and Rice would be hysterical to listen to.
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it would take more than that to get billy to do some regular work
 
I'd love to find a way to get Marcus Smart as our SG of the future. He reminds me of Dwyane Wade a little bit. Absurdly strong for his size, can play 1-3 and has an awesome motor.

Played against Mohammed in the summer and put up 30pts, 20rebs and 5 assists.

You guys gotta tune in and watch him play. He's a beast.
 
MickZagger said:
I'd love to find a way to get Marcus Smart as our SG of the future. He reminds me of Dwyane Wade a little bit. Absurdly strong for his size, can play 1-3 and has an awesome motor.

Played against Mohammed in the summer and put up 30pts, 20rebs and 5 assists.

You guys gotta tune in and watch him play. He's a beast.
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What nonsense is this? We all know you're the only person here who watches college basketball!
 
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