OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA: APRIL 2023

[Natebishop3]

Acquire Hartenstein instead of Cam Reddish

How do you know that was on the table?

 

[wizenheimer]

Hart showing why he's worth everything he can get this offseason. He showed it here as well. Absolutely hated him getting trading. The Blazers have got to somehow, figure a way to not over pay to keep talent. I know the Blazers want to do right by players, but i think they would have been better served by letting Nurk & Ant find their value to other teams, and then the Blazers could have matched. Or moved on. To me there is too much money being paid to guys who don't lift their share of the weight. I'd rather have been able to keep Hart at 18 - 20, then pay Ant or Nurk that. I guess it will work out if they can deal those contracts in big deals for game changers.

some posters have chosen to ignore what Hart explicitly said, and that was his wife really wanted to live back east closer to her family, and that Hart himself was more comfortable back east. Not trading him would have very likely resulted in the Blazers being stuck between the rock of grossly over-paying Hart or the hard place of letting him walk for nothing. But yeah, let's ignore all that so we can bash the Blazers some more for a calculation they had to perform

and I agree about Ant and Nurkic. Neither was going to get an offer anywhere close to what Portland signed them for last summer. There was very little cap-space league-wide and the few teams that had that space didn't need an undersized SG or an injury-prone traditional C. I guess the hope is that those salaries will be a critical part of a blockbuster trade

 

[SharpesTriumph]

some posters have chosen to ignore what Hart explicitly said, and that was his wife really wanted to live back east closer to her family, and that Hart himself was more comfortable back east. Not trading him would have very likely resulted in the Blazers being stuck between the rock of grossly over-paying Hart or the hard place of letting him walk for nothing. But yeah, let's ignore all that so we can bash the Blazers some more for a calculation they had to perform

and I agree about Ant and Nurkic. Neither was going to get an offer anywhere close to what Portland signed them for last summer. There was very little cap-space league-wide and the few teams that had that space didn't need an undersized SG or an injury-prone traditional C. I guess the hope is that those salaries will be a critical part of a blockbuster trade

Some people believe if we kept Hart and tried to win and paid him more than any of those MLE east teams could he'd likely stay.

Of course after the trade he'll say a bunch of stuff about why he likes the trade and area in NY, similar to what he said when coming to Portland. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have signed in Portland if the Blazers had taken real steps to build a winner and either paid tax or didn't blow salary on stupid Nurk/Payton/etc contracts.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

How do you know that was on the table?

You asked for examples of moves that could realistically happen. I gave you six of them.

Maybe Blazers could get Hartenstein or maybe not, it was rumored they could. If it makes you feel better sub in Vanderbilt, Hachimura, Wiseman, Saddiq Bey etc that were actually moved for very little. Any competent GM could've easily got them if they wanted, and the Blazers haven't acquire any of these guys. Instead we overpaid Nurk, signed an injured GPII, and ran out a ridiculous short team claiming at first we were trying to win with Dame.

 

[wizenheimer]

Some people believe if we kept Hart and tried to win and paid him more than any of those MLE east teams could he'd likely stay.

Of course after the trade he'll say a bunch of stuff about why he likes the trade and area in NY, similar to what he said when coming to Portland. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have signed in Portland if the Blazers had taken real steps to build a winner and either paid tax or didn't blow salary on stupid Nurk/Payton/etc contracts.

I know you don't like Cronin and think he's stupid...but do you really think he didn't have discussions with Hart and his agent for months before the trade was done? Do you really believe that Cronin didn't have a good idea about Hart's intentions?

 

[Samuel]

it seems pretty clear cronin was keeping his powder dry for a bigger move and trying to maximize the value of their lottery pick—either by keeping it or trading it for big game. there's a scenario where cronin moves heaven and earth at the deadline and gets portland into the spot that minnesota is at.

love cronin or hate him (I think he's fine; not good, not great, but fine) we can't criticize olshey for these marginal upgrades using firsts and then criticize cronin for not doing so.

that also means cronin has to deliver this summer (and probably more specifically, before cronin calls in our pick). dame has said as much.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I know you don't like Cronin and think he's stupid...but do you really think he didn't have discussions with Hart and his agent for months before the trade was done? Do you really believe that Cronin didn't have a good idea about Hart's intentions?

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. I'd guess me and you know the same here and only have our assumptions.

Regardless; the job of the GM is to assemble talent on the basketball team and also to retain it. It's not just to ask Hart his intentions, which almost sounds like an excuse to mutually agree to part ways. What if I ask my wife if she believes we will still be married years from now or does she have other intentions? A GM job if trying to retain players is to tell and show Hart why the Blazers are building a winner, why they want him to be a valuable part of it, and why Portland can be great for his family.

I don't think trading Hart is a horrible move in isolation, heck I might even prefer the pick if we go to rebuild around Ant/Sharpe. But it completely goes against the idea of trying to win next year with Dame, raises more concerns about the team properly getting return in the CJ trade, and just another one of these penny pinching moves of prioritize cash over talent.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

All of those were offseason decisions, though (as you noted). This discussion (as I understood it) was specifically regarding trade-deadline moves the Blazers might have made to "make the team not a just little but a bunch better" and to make pursuing a playoff push a reasonable endeavor.

Three of his moves are deadline moves but yes the conversation is more about the entire season. Go read the Wemby thread and the posts from around Oct 10th. During the terrible start of pre season Then all the sudden like magic a few posts went positive and they just quit posting until the end of Nov.

Keeping Hart and adding a decent Center to back up Nurk at times are absolutely two of the moves i would have done. Even signing Cousins who was effective just last year in the playoffs could have made a huge difference. The 3rd and maybe even 4th moves have too much grey area? I just was not in Joe's office when he was on the phone. There is no way for us to know what he tried or was told was not an option. People say they would lose Hart for nothing. Well my response to that is maybe not if they get to the semi's and he decides he wants to win here with Dame and what they are building. Spend the money to keep him.

Bottom line i simply hate the fact this team quit again this season. So next season if things are tough in December are they going to start tanking again? I totally get it that the goal is a championship. If they don't have a championship caliber roster next year are we okay with tanking again because they won't. Not even if they get the #1 pick.
They need to build the team both through draft and good quality decisions. On those issues i totally agree with people. I just feel they gave up way too soon this year.
30 games left and a .500 record and they quit.

Now maybe we should not turn the Around the NBA thread into another Trade Thread. There are plenty of places on this site for you guys to have this conversation another couple hundred times.

 

[DDolla]

Rooting for Becky Hammon to get the Raptors job. It’s Time!

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Keep Hart… but acquire Hartenstein instead of Reddish? We traded Hart for Reddish, so that doesn’t particularly make sense.

And the guy said 3 moves that make this team “much” better.

Adding a vet min center, and keeping Hart (who was already playing for us while we sucked), doesn’t seem to fit “3 moves that make us a LOT better”.

Sorry but i guess we just disagree here. Yeah i think signing another center and keeping Hart are two moves that would make the team a lot better. Adding some legth as a third option also makes them better.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Rooting for Becky Hammon to get the Raptors job. It’s Time!

Good job trying to get the thread back on track.

 

[KingSpeed]

I am aware of that. I had him as my favorite to pick up last year.
The Blazers got the 7th pick. Just like they most likely will again this year. Not bashing Sharpe at all. He hopefully will become a great pick.
You and I both know Dame is not waiting 3-4 years to get quality vets around him.

Dame has said he wants better talent around him. He has also said he wants to stay in Portland. He’s not going anywhere unless we don’t want him anymore. He has made this clear. He has never threatened to leave.

 

[KingSpeed]

Who wants anyone from the Hawks?

And they lost 4-2. First round and out.

I’d take Murray, Bey, Okungwu, Capela. All of them would help us.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Dame has said he wants better talent around him. He has also said he wants to stay in Portland. He’s not going anywhere unless we don’t want him anymore. He has made this clear. He has never threatened to leave.

Actually he said Veteran Talent and yeah he said if they can't do that then he will have to consider his options.
“I’m just not interested in that. That’s not a secret,’’ Lillard responded when asked about bringing in more young talent. “I want a chance to go for it. And if the route is to (draft youth), then that’s not my route.”

Direct Quote

 

[blazerkor]

Dame has said he wants better talent around him. He has also said he wants to stay in Portland. He’s not going anywhere unless we don’t want him anymore. He has made this clear. He has never threatened to leave.

He also made it clear that if we go young this off season instead of getting established talent to help him win now, we are pretty much saying we don't want him anymore. I think Joe has been presented with two options: get Dame all star help or move Dame.

I do think Dame will be here and that we will acquire an all star or maybe even two this off season but when Dame said he isn't here for a rebuild and he's not here to play with 19 year olds, he pretty much set the terms (that I'm sure he had already set with Joe with even more specificity behind closed doors) for how the team could show that they don't want him anymore.

 

[KingSpeed]

He also made it clear that if we go young this off season instead of getting established talent to help him win now, we are pretty much saying we don't want him anymore. I think Joe has been presented with two options: get Dame all star help or move Dame.

I do think Dame will be here and that we will acquire an all star or maybe even two this off season but when Dame said he isn't here for a rebuild and he's not here to play with 19 year olds, he pretty much set the terms (that I'm sure he had already set with Joe with even more specificity behind closed doors) for how the team could show that they don't want him anymore.

He’s just playing hardball. He’s not serious about leaving or he would’ve done it already. We’ve had two empty seasons and he hasn’t asked out. If we go the youth route, he’ll be upset but he’ll stay and play Chris Paul route. He’ll never ask out. Ever.

 

[KingSpeed]

If playing with All Stars was his number one priority, he would’ve demanded trade to Lakers two years ago.

 

[blazerkor]

He’s just playing hardball. He’s not serious about leaving or he would’ve done it already. We’ve had two empty seasons and he hasn’t asked out. If we go the youth route, he’ll be upset but he’ll stay and play Chris Paul route. He’ll never ask out. Ever.

If Dame feels like the team has disrespected him he will ask out. He doesn't seem like the type of person who just says something only to go back on it. The last time Dame was talking like this, the team brought in Chauncey and that bought the team some time but I think the time is up.

If the team doesn't give Dame help that Dame knows can help him then I don't think he'll have to ask out. I think it's really obvious from the statements Dame has mad that he has already told Joe what the deal is. So Joe now either gets moves done that put established talent around Dame or Joe moves Dame.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Before anyone suggests it - NO WE FUCKING DO NOT WANT JALEN GREEN

 

[Fairly-Hard]

He’s just playing hardball. He’s not serious about leaving or he would’ve done it already. We’ve had two empty seasons and he hasn’t asked out. If we go the youth route, he’ll be upset but he’ll stay and play Chris Paul route. He’ll never ask out. Ever.

This is borderline delusion my friend.

 

[Predator]

Sorry but i guess we just disagree here. Yeah i think signing another center and keeping Hart are two moves that would make the team a lot better. Adding some legth as a third option also makes them better.

If a vet min center changed the trajectory of this team from “play-in” team to championship contender (or even “second round contender”, slap my ass and call me Sally.

 

[THE HCP]

Rooting for Becky Hammon to get the Raptors job. It’s Time!

Why? Because she’s a female? I hope she get’s the job because she’s the best fit for the job….not because “It’s Time”.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

If a vet min center changed the trajectory of this team from “play-in” team to championship contender (or even “second round contender”, slap my ass and call me Sally.

Well that's not really what has been said so yeah.
What has been said is get a serviceable backup center. Keep Hart, and bring in a third defensive player with length. Jarred Vanderbilt comes to mind being Thybule would not have been available without trading Hart.
Please stop making this a trade thread.
On second thought you guys go ahead. May around the NBA will be going soon enough.

 

[Predator]

I’d take Murray, Bey, Okungwu, Capela. All of them would help us.

Pretty much all of those conversations start with “Shaedon Sharpe”.

Don’t even know how we could get Capela.

And considering the price would be Shaedon Sharpe, nope, don’t want any of them, but I can see your point in a vacuum.

 

[Predator]

Well that's not really what has been said so yeah.
What has been said is get a serviceable backup center. Keep Hart, and bring in a third defensive player with length. Jarred Vanderbilt comes to mind being Thybule would not have been available without trading Hart.
Please stop making this a trade thread.
On second thought you guys go ahead. May around the NBA will be going soon enough.

The guy said “sign a vet min center”, but okie.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

The guy said “sign a vet min center”, but okie.

A legit backup vet minimum center would've helped a ton this last season when Nurk had predictable injuries and Eubanks was forced out of his 2nd/3rd string role. The Blazers had tiny lineups with Grant or others way undersized at center.

No it wouldn't have saved the season on its own and of course it certainly wouldn't have made the Blazers a contender. But you have a few better decisions made there for the 9th/10th man in the rotation, you don't trade away Hart, you get some other widely available players like Hachimura who's been scoring over 20 in playoff games, you try to win the whole season, and the Blazers likely make the playoffs and possibly even have a chance getting into the second round.

My point was the Blazers didn't do many of these very easy moves that a team does if they really are trying to go for it and win this last season. So they either weren't committed to winning the entire season, or they're really freaking incompetent.

 

[boredinsalem]

A legit backup vet minimum center would've helped a ton this last season when Nurk had predictable injuries and Eubanks was forced out of his 2nd/3rd string role. The Blazers had tiny lineups with Grant or others way undersized at center.

No it wouldn't have saved the season on its own and of course it certainly wouldn't have made the Blazers a contender. But you have a few better decisions made there for the 9th/10th man in the rotation, you don't trade away Hart, you get some other widely available players like Hachimura who's been scoring over 20 in playoff games, you try to win the whole season, and the Blazers likely make the playoffs and possibly even have a chance getting into the second round.

My point was the Blazers didn't do many of these very easy moves that a team does if they really are trying to go for it and win this last season. So they either weren't committed to winning the entire season, or they're really freaking incompetent.

So then we could finish outside of the lottery without being a real playoff threat and not gain any significant assets this offseason, wasting Dame's prime. Maybe we could target draft our medicare first rounder for a middling over the hill talent that doesn't work out.

Are you Olshey or Cronin?

 

[boredinsalem]

My point was there were simple easy moves that could have had a real difference to get more wins throughout this season. That the Blazers didn't pursue those in the offseason or at the deadline shows to me they weren't truly trying to win at either time, or they're incompetent.

Oh yeah, selling simple moves and overhyping the potential of the roster. Are you Olshey?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm SlyPokerDog if anyone wants to know!

 

[SlyPokerDog]