OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA: SEPTEMBER 2023

[UncleCliffy'sDaddy]

It's actually IMPOSSIBLE to compare players from different generations. Can't be done. I'd LOVE for you to take 2 minutes and guess LeBron's per game averages against players like this? I'll wait FAMS!

Exactly. Why to we even debate "the greatest of all time"???? Wilt was the greatest of his era. MJ was the greatest of his era. LeBron is the greatest of his era. Everything changes over time, even (especially) the game of basketball. The GOAT argument changes with the era and has no real "true" answer. Kind of a circular debate........

 

[Natebishop3]

Drop LeBron too far back and dunking was outlawed and there wasn't a shot clock, so the white guys would just burn the clock

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Come on, let's be real, players like MJ, Lebron, and Pippen would have fouled out in the 1st quarter every time they played. Too big, too fast, too aggressive, and too "showy." Those old white referees wouldn't have let them play.

They would have had a nice career playing for the Harlem Globe Trotters.

 

[Natebishop3]

Come on, let's be real, players like MJ, Lebron, and Pippen would have fouled out in the 1st quarter every time they played. Too big, too fast, too aggressive, and too "showy." Those old white referees wouldn't have let them play.

They would have had a nice career playing for the Harlem Globe Trotters.

Interesting point, but if you take out racism (hard to do) I think superstars would have been frustrated with the lack of superstar treatment. Hell, they changed rules to try to slow down Wilt.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

It's actually IMPOSSIBLE to compare players from different generations. Can't be done. I'd LOVE for you to take 2 minutes and guess LeBron's per game averages against players like this? I'll wait FAMS!

Those guys probably saw some shit on the beaches at Normandy, though

 

[Phatguysrule]

It's actually IMPOSSIBLE to compare players from different generations. Can't be done. I'd LOVE for you to take 2 minutes and guess LeBron's per game averages against players like this? I'll wait FAMS!

Would LeBron block Kareem 17 times in a series at 36 years old? Blocked the skyhook twice in one of those games.

I don't think so. He also wouldn't average 50 per game in any season. Or 22 rebounds for his career. Or scored a 100 point game...

I'll consider the argument that LeBron may be better than Wilt, if we assume the lack of competition is what made Wilt great.

But not MJ. Or honestly Bill Russell or Larry Bird.

In that case my top 3 are #1 MJ, #2 Russell, #3 Bird, then Magic, Wilt, and LeBron in no particular order...

 

[Phatguysrule]

Exactly. Why to we even debate "the greatest of all time"???? Wilt was the greatest of his era. MJ was the greatest of his era. LeBron is the greatest of his era. Everything changes over time, even (especially) the game of basketball. The GOAT argument changes with the era and has no real "true" answer. Kind of a circular debate........

As long as people are claiming LeBron is the GOAT there is a debate to be had.

But it's a fairly simple debate, completely based on opinion.

Wilt was also playing professional basketball at 14 under a fake ID. And he was killing it, even then.

An absolute monster.

Point is, LeBron is a monster and that doesn't put him above Wilt. His skills put him above the likes of Shaq though. His size puts him above the likes of Steph Curry.

But MJ, Russell, and Bird were different. Better.

 

[KingSpeed]

To me, the best player since Jordan retired is Shaq with Duncan a close second. People forget how unstoppable Shaq was. LeBron has never been unstoppable on that level. And then Duncan was a such complete player, grew with one team that was not a superteam talent-wise and won 5 titles. Not sure why these two are overlooked in GOAT conversations.

 

[Natebishop3]

LeBron has never been unstoppable on that level.

I don't agree. He basically put a garbage Cavs team on his back and basically single-handedly carried that team to the Finals back in 2007. He was unstoppable.

 

[andalusian]

It's actually IMPOSSIBLE to compare players from different generations. Can't be done. I'd LOVE for you to take 2 minutes and guess LeBron's per game averages against players like this? I'll wait FAMS!

0 fam. He was not born yet and these dudes would have been brutal even against toddlers.

 

[blazerfan11]

Come on, let's be real, players like MJ, Lebron, and Pippen would have fouled out in the 1st quarter every time they played. Too big, too fast, too aggressive, and too "showy." Those old white referees wouldn't have let them play.

They would have had a nice career playing for the Harlem Globe Trotters.

 

[blazerfan11]

I don't agree. He basically put a garbage Cavs team on his back and basically single-handedly carried that team to the Finals back in 2007. He was unstoppable.

2007 playoffs. Cavs had a 12-4 conference playoff record.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Would LeBron block Kareem 17 times in a series at 36 years old? Blocked the skyhook twice in one of those games.

I don't think so. He also wouldn't average 50 per game in any season. Or 22 rebounds for his career. Or scored a 100 point game...

I'll consider the argument that LeBron may be better than Wilt, if we assume the lack of competition is what made Wilt great.

But not MJ. Or honestly Bill Russell or Larry Bird.

In that case my top 3 are #1 MJ, #2 Russell, #3 Bird, then Magic, Wilt, and LeBron in no particular order...

It's unfortunate that you omit Kareem from that list.

 

[Phatguysrule]

It's unfortunate that you omit Kareem from that list.

He's definitely top 10. But I put these guys above him because they were all better team players/leaders in the NBA.

Kareem was the best college player though, IMO.

 

[riverman]

Shawn Kemp's son tried out for the Remix

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Shawn Kemp's son tried out for the Remix

Which one? Doesn't he have like 7?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

To me, the best player since Jordan retired is Shaq with Duncan a close second. People forget how unstoppable Shaq was. LeBron has never been unstoppable on that level. And then Duncan was a such complete player, grew with one team that was not a superteam talent-wise and won 5 titles. Not sure why these two are overlooked in GOAT conversations.

Shaq was the Wilt Chamberlain of our day, in that he should have been the greatest player of his century, basically, but just wasn't driven enough and had crucial Achilles heels (in both cases, FT%). Yes he was pretty much unstoppable - unless you fouled him really hard. Duncan was a better all-around player.

If Shaq was so great then Hakeem wouldn't've been able to hand him his ass in the finals.

 

[kjironman1]

Shaq was the Wilt Chamberlain of our day, in that he should have been the greatest player of his century, basically, but just wasn't driven enough and had crucial Achilles heels (in both cases, FT%). Yes he was pretty much unstoppable - unless you fouled him really hard. Duncan was a better all-around player.

If Shaq was so great then Hakeem wouldn't've been able to hand him his ass in the finals.

We are talking in the Goat conversation if he could make a free throw for sure.

 

[riverman]

Which one? Doesn't he have like 7?

I don't know..just saw a photo of him with the headline..I know Kemp has a lot of kids.

 

[THE HCP]

Would LeBron block Kareem 17 times in a series at 36 years old? Blocked the skyhook twice in one of those games.

I don't think so. He also wouldn't average 50 per game in any season. Or 22 rebounds for his career. Or scored a 100 point game...

I'll consider the argument that LeBron may be better than Wilt, if we assume the lack of competition is what made Wilt great.

But not MJ. Or honestly Bill Russell or Larry Bird.

In that case my top 3 are #1 MJ, #2 Russell, #3 Bird, then Magic, Wilt, and LeBron in no particular order...

Funny thing is I didn't even read your reply. You CAN'T argue with me on this. I won't allow it.

 

[THE HCP]

As long as people are claiming LeBron is the GOAT there is a debate to be had.

But it's a fairly simple debate, completely based on opinion.

Wilt was also playing professional basketball at 14 under a fake ID. And he was killing it, even then.

An absolute monster.

Point is, LeBron is a monster and that doesn't put him above Wilt. His skills put him above the likes of Shaq though. His size puts him above the likes of Steph Curry.

But MJ, Russell, and Bird were different. Better.

Please google a picture of the centers guarding Wilt.....I dare you. It's hilarious.

 

[THE HCP]

I don't know..just saw a photo of him with the headline..I know Kemp has a lot of kids.

His offspring could be a complete G-League roster FAMS!

 

[KingSpeed]

I don't agree. He basically put a garbage Cavs team on his back and basically single-handedly carried that team to the Finals back in 2007. He was unstoppable.

The Spurs literally stopped him. Shaq required over paying big bodies with 6 fouls each to contend with. LeBron has been great but Shaq was dominant in his 3peat prime.

 

[andalusian]

Please google a picture of the centers guarding Wilt.....I dare you. It's hilarious.

I have lost track of what we are talking about, but Lew Alcindor was a pretty decent defender even if Wilt used to claim that he was not.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Please google a picture of the centers guarding Wilt.....I dare you. It's hilarious.

It doesn't really matter. I've already said I'd acknowledge that given the disparity in opposing talent LeBron could arguably be ahead of Wilt.

Wilt averaged 17 rebounds per game against Kareem, and Wilt was past his prime in all of those games.

But with the above consideration in mind neither LeBron or Wilt would be in my top 3.

*Edit* But when you consider Wilt playing against Kareem, I don't think there is any way LeBron does that well. Maybe scoring wise, as LeBron has a far superior perimeter game, but everything else is all Wilt.

36 year old Wilt blocked mid 20s Kareem 17 times in a single series. Blocked Kareem 7 times in one game, including the skyhook twice. At 36 years old.

I think Wilt was a bigger force than LeBron. But LeBron does have a better perimeter game, so I get the argument that they are close.

I have Wilt up there as #2 because of his insane numbers and total dominance on a consistent basis. But take that away for arguments sake and he drops to top 5-ish on my GOAT board.

 

[Phatguysrule]

To me, the best player since Jordan retired is Shaq with Duncan a close second. People forget how unstoppable Shaq was. LeBron has never been unstoppable on that level. And then Duncan was a such complete player, grew with one team that was not a superteam talent-wise and won 5 titles. Not sure why these two are overlooked in GOAT conversations.

Yeah, Shaq and Duncan were every bit as good as LeBron. Shaq was far more dominant. Agreed.

LeBron is a better leader than Shaq was though.

I'd take Duncan over LeBron.

 

[Idog1976]

As long as people are claiming LeBron is the GOAT there is a debate to be had.

But it's a fairly simple debate, completely based on opinion.

Wilt was also playing professional basketball at 14 under a fake ID. And he was killing it, even then.

An absolute monster.

Point is, LeBron is a monster and that doesn't put him above Wilt. His skills put him above the likes of Shaq though. His size puts him above the likes of Steph Curry.

But MJ, Russell, and Bird were different. Better.

Im so glad you brought this up. Time to put the MJ vs. LeBron as GOAT argument to bed.

 

[Idog1976]

It doesn't really matter. I've already said I'd acknowledge that given the disparity in opposing talent LeBron could arguably be ahead of Wilt.

Wilt averaged 17 rebounds per game against Kareem, and Wilt was past his prime in all of those games.

But with the above consideration in mind neither LeBron or Wilt would be in my top 3.

*Edit* But when you consider Wilt playing against Kareem, I don't think there is any way LeBron does that well. Maybe scoring wise, as LeBron has a far superior perimeter game, but everything else is all Wilt.

36 year old Wilt blocked mid 20s Kareem 17 times in a single series. Blocked Kareem 7 times in one game, including the skyhook twice. At 36 years old.

I think Wilt was a bigger force than LeBron. But LeBron does have a better perimeter game, so I get the argument that they are close.

I have Wilt up there as #2 because of his insane numbers and total dominance on a consistent basis. But take that away for arguments sake and he drops to top 5-ish on my GOAT board.

Top three are MJ, Kareem and Wilt in that order but I’m open to Wilt above Kareem.

MJ is the GOAT imo, but Im open to Wilt and Kareem arguments. LeBron is laughable to me.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Please google a picture of the centers guarding Wilt.....I dare you. It's hilarious.

In a total of 142 matchups vs Bill Russell (generally considered the Defensive GOAT)

Wilt (in his prime) averaged 28.7 PPG and 28.7 RPG.
Bill Russell averaged 14.5 points and 23.7 rebounds.

Of note, Bill Russell was 21-0 all time NCAA/NBA/Olympic win or go home (single elimination) games.

This is what LeBron would look like vs Bill Russell.

 

[James lamphear]

Remember LeBron wouldn't have the most points in history if they had the same rules when you could come out to be in the draft.