OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA THREAD - July 2021

[Natebishop3]

By all-star caliber he means Morey is holding out for Dame.

Dame is superstar caliber. He's arguably a top 5 player in the world. That's at least one or two steps above All-Star caliber.

 

[boredinsalem]

I think Brogdon would actually fit really well with Dame/Powell. He's extremely long for a PG/SG (like Powell). I think he could play combo PG/SG for us as a super 6th man (not sure where that would leave Ant) and 3 guard lineups with him and Powell to close out games would be much better on defense than the same lineups with CJ last year.

This would work salary-wise:

CJ + Indiana 1st to PHI
Simmons to IND
Brogdon + Justin Holiday to PDX

Lillard/Brogdon
Powell/Brogdon
Holiday/Jones
Covington/Little
Nurk/?

I think we'd want to try to flip Simons, Jones, and a pick for a good 3/4 or 4/5 if we really want to go for it this year. We'd have our MLE exception to sign whichever of the two we didn't trade for.

This seems like aiming low, but if we traded for Boucher (with Jones and first) and signed PJ Tucker with our MLE you'd have an entire roster full of plus defenders (other than Dame).

 

[JoshuaHall]

Man, if Im Sixers and Pacers sweeten pot a little, they should do it.

Shit, most of the Pacers fans in that thread don’t even want Simmons.

“Dodged a bullet.”
“Not big on Brogdon but don’t want Simmons contract.”

Highly, highly doubt they’ll be sweetening the pot. That’s a pretty fair offer.

CJ and two firsts probably gets it done.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Brogdon would actually fit really well with Dame/Powell. He's extremely long for a PG/SG (like Powell). I think he could play combo PG/SG for us as a super 6th man (not sure where that would leave Ant) and 3 guard lineups with him and Powell to close out games would be much better on defense than the same lineups with CJ last year.

This would work salary-wise:

CJ + Indiana 1st to PHI
Simmons to IND
Brogdon + Justin Holiday to PDX

Lillard/Brogdon
Powell/Brogdon
Holiday/Jones
Covington/Little
Nurk/?

I think we'd want to try to flip Simons, Jones, and a pick for a good 3/4 or 4/5 if we really want to go for it this year. We'd have our MLE exception to sign whichever of the two we didn't trade for.

I have heard Brogdon is a headcase. Not really interested.

 

[TBpup]

That Dave deckard fella thinks Beverly should get a year long suspension for his push on Paul, just in case you’re on the fence on taking anything he says serious.

Dave has become a bit of an ironic joke.

 

[Natebishop3]

There's a reason why BE had their credentials pulled a few years back.

 

[JoshuaHall]

I think Brogdon would actually fit really well with Dame/Powell. He's extremely long for a PG/SG (like Powell). I think he could play combo PG/SG for us as a super 6th man (not sure where that would leave Ant) and 3 guard lineups with him and Powell to close out games would be much better on defense than the same lineups with CJ last year.

This would work salary-wise:

CJ + Indiana 1st to PHI
Simmons to IND
Brogdon + Justin Holiday to PDX

Lillard/Brogdon
Powell/Brogdon
Holiday/Jones
Covington/Little
Nurk/?

I think we'd want to try to flip Simons, Jones, and a pick for a good 3/4 or 4/5 if we really want to go for it this year. We'd have our MLE exception to sign whichever of the two we didn't trade for.

That team sucks.
Upgrading our backup PG/SG isn’t a needle mover.
Brogdon does nothing for us.
We need a front court upgrade.

 

[PCmor7]

Looking at their stats, CJ is a better scorer. There's no doubt in my mind that CJ could have been an All-Star if he hadn't gotten hurt and definitely would have been one in the east.

I really don't understand how Simmons fits with the Pacers though.

I think the Pacers have gotten themselves into a position where they see themselves probably being out of the playoff picture and feel they need to shake things up and hope it works. Also, probably feel if they don't make a move they'll get heat from their fanbase.

Basically, they're desperate to make a change but there isn't an obvious move that improves them. They're stuck in neutral right now.

 

[Natebishop3]

I think the Pacers have gotten themselves into a position where they see themselves probably being out of the playoff picture and feel they need to shake things up and hope it works. Also, probably feel if they don't make a move they'll get heat from their fanbase.

Basically, they're desperate to make a change but there isn't an obvious move that improves them. They're stuck in neutral right now.

Simmons/Sabonis seems like a real bad fit to me. I wonder if we could get in on that.

 

[boredinsalem]

That team sucks.
Upgrading our backup PG/SG isn’t a needle mover.
Brogdon does nothing for us.
We need a front court upgrade.

That team is a shit-ton better than our team last year. We go from a midget team to a very long team. What players do you suggest pursuing for a front-court upgrade?

 

[boredinsalem]

I have heard Brogdon is a headcase. Not really interested.

Tell us more. Everything I've read indicates he's a high character guy, but I'm not that familiar with his game.

 

[wizenheimer]

I don't agree. He put up All-Star numbers last year. He just happens to play in the west. You put him on NY or Philly and magically he's an All-Star.

who is he beating out in the East?

probably the 'weakest' EC all-star was Zach Lavine:



look like LaVine has advantages in almost every area, although some are small

then, I think you have to factor in role. If CJ got traded to Philly (for Simmons) for instance, he's not going to be the clear #1b option on that team like he is for Portland. Embiid & Harris will be ahead of him in the pecking order. For chrissakes, he's not going to average 19 FGA's for Philly like he has for Portland. Embiid only averaged 17.6 and Harris only averaged 15. CJ's not joining that team and averaging 4 more shots than Harris. CJ was 14th in the NBA last season in shots/game. Olshey has made sure that CJ has remained a primary option for Portland. I really don't think that any team will want to trade for CJ in order to make him the 1st or 2nd offensive option

 

[tykendo]

Darryl Moreyon can wish and hope all he wants. The bottom line is Simmons value is at an all time low. Philly fan didn't help that with a bonfire using Ben's jersey as kindling . They can 1: Keep him, and develop him. or 2: trade him, and get a borderline Allstar talent like CJ, or Brogdon, and another lower end talent or picks. IS WHAT IT IS PHILLY . Ben is worth the risk when teamed with the Best Leader in the game (DAME). Sorry Philly, key up Steven Tyler ,Dream On. Philly, Nat'l Media, and other NBA fans are delusional thinking Portland is going to trade their generational talent for SO-SO Cupcakes, and college players who haven't been potty trained.

 

[Hoopguru]

I don't think CJ is nearly as good as some of you; he'll never be an all-star IMO

but the filters I use for gauging CJ may not be the filters another team's front office uses for the gauges. For instance, the main filter I use is the poor fit between Dame and CJ. Not many teams have a main player like Dame

the main issue is if Olshey would actually shop CJ to other teams; or will he do what he has done for 9 years and that's try and cheap-screw & dumpster-dive Portland into a contender. That hasn't worked before...no rational reason to think it will work now

He drafted two guards of late that could fit along Dame and my gut tells me they will both get some playing time if they are not part of a trade. CJE I expect to have a very good summer league, as its guard oriented and usually run and gun, right up his ally. As it is for most guards from Seattle.

 

[Hoopguru]

Shit, most of the Pacers fans in that thread don’t even want Simmons.

“Dodged a bullet.”
“Not big on Brogdon but don’t want Simmons contract.”

Highly, highly doubt they’ll be sweetening the pot. That’s a pretty fair offer.

CJ and two firsts probably gets it done.

I can understand that with the emphasis put on offense.

 

[Hoopguru]

Darryl Moreyon can wish and hope all he wants. The bottom line is Simmons value is at an all time low. Philly fan didn't help that with a bonfire using Ben's jersey as kindling . They can 1: Keep him, and develop him. or 2: trade him, and get a borderline Allstar talent like CJ, or Brogdon, and another lower end talent or picks. IS WHAT IT IS PHILLY . Ben is worth the risk when teamed with the Best Leader in the game (DAME). Sorry Philly, key up Steven Tyler ,Dream On. Philly, Nat'l Media, and other NBA fans are delusional thinking Portland is going to trade their generational talent for SO-SO Cupcakes, and college players who haven't been potty trained.

Morey is an offensive guy so he'll look for the best gun slinger he can find. He may have to throw in another to sweeten the pkg though.

 

[Natebishop3]

who is he beating out in the East?

probably the 'weakest' EC all-star was Zach Lavine:

View attachment 39372

look like LaVine has advantages in almost every area, although some are small

then, I think you have to factor in role. If CJ got traded to Philly (for Simmons) for instance, he's not going to be the clear #1b option on that team like he is for Portland. Embiid & Harris will be ahead of him in the pecking order. For chrissakes, he's not going to average 19 FGA's for Philly like he has for Portland. Embiid only averaged 17.6 and Harris only averaged 15. CJ's not joining that team and averaging 4 more shots than Harris. CJ was 14th in the NBA last season in shots/game. Olshey has made sure that CJ has remained a primary option for Portland. I really don't think that any team will want to trade for CJ in order to make him the 1st or 2nd offensive option

If he were to go to Philly, for example, and if they were once again a top 2 seed, and he was averaging 20+ ppg? I think he gets a nod.

 

[RR7]

If he were to go to Philly, for example, and if they were once again a top 2 seed, and he was averaging 20+ ppg? I think he gets a nod.

I think the thing to remember as well is, he'd be playing in Philly, or NY, not portland. He'd get far more attention playing out there for a winner than here.

 

[tykendo]

Simmons/Sabonis seems like a real bad fit to me. I wonder if we could get in on that.

View attachment 39373

I don't see, any way , Carlisle lets Sabonis go. Levert & Sabonis are the backbone of that team going forward.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

who is he beating out in the East?

probably the 'weakest' EC all-star was Zach Lavine:

View attachment 39372

look like LaVine has advantages in almost every area, although some are small

then, I think you have to factor in role. If CJ got traded to Philly (for Simmons) for instance, he's not going to be the clear #1b option on that team like he is for Portland. Embiid & Harris will be ahead of him in the pecking order. For chrissakes, he's not going to average 19 FGA's for Philly like he has for Portland. Embiid only averaged 17.6 and Harris only averaged 15. CJ's not joining that team and averaging 4 more shots than Harris. CJ was 14th in the NBA last season in shots/game. Olshey has made sure that CJ has remained a primary option for Portland. I really don't think that any team will want to trade for CJ in order to make him the 1st or 2nd offensive option

Even if the numbers are similar, they would vote in CJ with his reputation and being on a winning team than LaVine on a losing Bulls team. I think CJ would make all-star in the east as well.

 

[wizenheimer]

If he were to go to Philly, for example, and if they were once again a top 2 seed, and he was averaging 20+ ppg? I think he gets a nod.

sure....that may be a reasonable assumption. But look at the 'foundation' of that assumption

For his career, CJ has averaged 1.186 points/shot. Last season, it was 1.23. But that was skewed by that torrid start he couldn't sustain

assume he averages 1.21 points/shot (likely too high). Then assume he becomes option 1b with Harris and averages the same 15 FGA as Harris. At 1.21 points/shot he'd average 18 points. At the 1.23 he averaged this season, he'd average 18.5 points. Even if CJ averaged the same number of shots at Embiid, he'd only average 21.5. But does anybody really think the 76ers would let him chuck up that many shots when they have Embiid, Harris, & Curry?

a lot of people seem to look at CJ's scoring average for Portland and just assume that would transfer to another team. But they ignore that CJ has been much more featured in Portland's offense than he'd be if traded....unless he's traded to a shitty team that would just let him dribble & chuck all game. This season, CJ averaged 6 more shots than anybody else besides Dame. Last season was the same; so was the season before it. CJ has had clear sailing into the top-15 in the league in FGA because of how Olshey built the roster. This season he was 14th in FGA; last season he was 12th. He's simply not going to get that clear path to top-15 chucking on another good team

 

[Scalma]

Dave has become a bit of an ironic joke.

I almost think it’s a bit. Either that or he’s got his own skeletons and is projecting. Or maybe he’s just a lunatic. Tough to call.

 

[tykendo]

Who knows what a healthy CJ could do on another team, or if he stays. He was never the same player when he came back from that injury. He had loss explosiveness, accuracy on his shots, and he rarely took the ball to the hoop. He was playing some pretty nice defense at the beginning of the year to. Getting into the passing lanes and stealing the ball like never before. That all came to an end when Star Killer (Clint Capella) stepped on his foot. Capella seems to have an knack for putting his feet in dangerous places, see Giannis. Health is not a given for anyone, but if CJ remains healthy, i could see his talent on an ascend. I was as mad as anyone that he couldn't hit clutch shots vs. Denver. But once i thought it out, was CJ really healthy in that series.

 

[Hey]

Any one offering CJ + two firsts or CJ + RoCo are crazy. We’d be taking a step backwards. RoCo is a must-keep player considering his intangibles, defense, and contract. Gambling on Ben Simmons could easily sink our ship if he stinks up the joint next postseason playing for us. Than we’d really be screwed.

I’d rather run it back with Billups, let CJ build his value back up, and see what’s available before the deadline.

 

[JoshuaHall]

Any one offering CJ + two firsts or CJ + RoCo are crazy. We’d be taking a step backwards. RoCo is a must-keep player considering his intangibles, defense, and contract. Gambling on Ben Simmons could easily sink our ship if he stinks up the joint next postseason playing for us. Than we’d really be screwed.

I’d rather run it back with Billups, let CJ build his value back up, and see what’s available before the deadline.

CJ + Two firsts is fine in my opinion.
CJ + Roco is laugh them off the phone hell fuckin no.
Our firsts are pretty much worthless with Simmons, Dame and Nurk.

 

[Natebishop3]

CJ + Two firsts is fine in my opinion.
CJ + Roco is laugh them off the phone hell fuckin no.
Our firsts are pretty much worthless with Simmons, Dame and Nurk.

If we got Simmons I would move Nurk. I seriously wonder what PGs value is.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Who starts? Lillard-Beal?

 

[JoshuaHall]

That team is a shit-ton better than our team last year. We go from a midget team to a very long team. What players do you suggest pursuing for a front-court upgrade?

In this scenario I’d rather have Simmons.
Hell I’d take Tobias Harris.
We fundamentally disagree. CJ is overall better than Brogdon. If you want a super 6th man, demote CJ to the bench.

Lillard/CJ
Powell/CJ
Nassir/Jones
Covington
Nurk

Is better.

And we don’t need trades for that.
Holiday sucks, bonafide scrub. Nassir is 11 years(?) younger. Get him PT. Not Holiday. And like I said, CJ is a better player than Brogdon.

Nassir > Holiday
CJ > Brogdon

So, no, we get worse in my opinion.

 

[blazerkor]

I have no idea who all of these people that keep on proposing that we get Simmons for CJ straight up and then move him to another team in a three team deal that doesn't even net us what he has been giving the majority of his career, are rooting for. If we can get Simmons for CJ, we take that deal and run with it.

 

[blazerkor]

Any one offering CJ + two firsts or CJ + RoCo are crazy. We’d be taking a step backwards. RoCo is a must-keep player considering his intangibles, defense, and contract. Gambling on Ben Simmons could easily sink our ship if he stinks up the joint next postseason playing for us. Than we’d really be screwed.

I’d rather run it back with Billups, let CJ build his value back up, and see what’s available before the deadline.

How does a Ben Simmons who struggles in the playoffs sink our ship any faster than it's been sinking? Please tell me how he'll get us out of the playoffs faster than the first round.