Official Jerami Grant trade rumors/ideas thread

[wizenheimer]

It's weird that you mention Deni and don't connect the fact that he took such a huge leap in his 5th season to the possibility that our guys who are in their 3rd and 4th seasons and came into the league with way less experience than Deni could make that huge of a leap themselves.

People continuing to compare the early career accomplishments and readiness of our two current guards who went from high school to the pros, to two of our favorite former Blazers guards who both were drafted after 4 years of college experience is kind of crazy to me. The year in their lives that both Scoot and Shaedon are about to experience is the same year in Dame and BRoy's lives that they entered the league. We've seen glimpses and even stretches of spectacular play from Scoot and Shaedon so it's not like we don't know if they have it in them.

You are correct that as of the last time we saw them, none of the guys on our roster were elite nba players but I think you saying that we don't have a probable future star on this roster is a bit premature. I don't think that any one of Scoot, Shaedon or Deni have a high likelihood of future nba superstardom but given the collective odds I think it's more likely than not that one of the three is a perrenial all star and any one of them could end up being an MVP candidate.

I didn't say potential star, I said 'probable' star and that's the situation right now. That big leap' you mentioned for Deni, left him at 17-7-4. His big leap actually happened in Washington. He'll have to make another big leap over last season, and he'll turn 25 next season

CJ went from 7 points a game to 21 points a game, won MIP, and went up to 23 points a game the following season, and hovered around 22 points for 6 seasons. And he never really got a sniff of all-star recognition, even though he was a starter on a playoff team each of those seasons. It took Aldridge averaging 23 & 11 to make an all-star game. And he was part of a 54 win team. Aldridge was an all-star in his 6th season; Deni will be in his 6th year next season so sure, it's possible. But possible isn't the same as likely or probable

something else too: this insistence of trying to draw equivalency in ages without accounting for NBA experience is off the mark in my view. Yeah, Sharpe is the same age Roy was as a rookie, but that also means Sharpe has had three off-seasons of NBA work with coaches and trainers; three training camps; three years of NBA coaching; 3 seasons of NBA experience. Dame & Roy only had one training camp when they were 22 and hadn't played a single NBA game

 

[LayneStaley]

We've made 3 moves this off-season. Let's look at each on and determine if it increased our chances of winning "now" or not:

1. Ant for Holiday trade: This could easily be justified as a win-now move because Ant will almost certainly be a more productive NBA player 4 years from now.
2. Waiving Ayton: Releasing your starting center is not a win-now move. We didn't even use the cap space created by the move to add a player.
3. Drafting Yang Hansen: Taking a young player, not a position of need, who is almost certainly a 3rd string center, over more experienced college prospects (and/or trading the pick) can't be considering a win-now move.

So at best, 1 of our 3 moves signify as win-now.

Your question about the unknown could be said about any move. Teams trade current players for unknown future draft-picks all the time without knowing the players that will be drafted with those picks will actually be better players. This would be about expected value, just like all those trades. Those 5 picks could turn out to be 3 all-stars and Deni could blow out his knee in November and never play again. Or Deni could turn out to be an all-star and none of the picks could pan out.

Again, I like Deni is a player. I love Deni's contract. I question if we're in position to maximize the value of that player/contract in the next 3 years with him on the roster vs trading him.

We aren’t trading Deni unless we completely collapse in the first half and even then it’s very doubtful. Ant and Ayton were a detriment to the team and their min will go to players that give us a better chance at winning. Not sure why anyone would want to rebuild for 10 years. The pieces are here to win, they just need some experience.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

You were the one that said Deni wasn't a star, or did I misunderstand you? Now it sounds like you're stepping back from what you said earlier. Again, maybe I missed your point. I just don't think you can keep trading off quality players -- especially those you gave up prime assets to acquire -- just because they aren't great. The only exception to that is if you're getting back something that IS great, not just a few more lottery tickets.

If you looked at some sentences or small posts in isolation it probably sounded like I want to trade Deni. That's never been the case. I'm talking about multiple hypotheticals which probably are 99% not going to be the case.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think a Demond Bane type return or better is more than reasonable.

Do you think Portland is likely to be able to build a contender in the next three seasons? If you do, then 100% we should keep Deni. If you don't, then being open to trading him seems like a logical option because his cheap deal will no longer be part of the equation.

I don't even think it needs to be in the next 3 seasons. Contending can be later. But it should be multiple pieces we have that could play a role on a contender besides just Deni/Camara.

 

[Ripcity4life77]

Grant is content to collect his money cause my guess is he knew good chance Dame was going to ask out and he took the payday prolly without a second thought. This means his agent does not HAVE to do shit and prolly will not do shit unless Grant decides getting a ring is important and pretty sure that is not happening. We are stuck with him for whatever reason .. as much as I want to blame Cronin we do not know how the contract talks went but I want to think Cronin MIGHT have been able to back out after Dame shit hit the fan but again no clue on how things went.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Not sure why anyone would want to rebuild for 10 years. The pieces are here to win, they just need some experience.

I think this is the root difference of where your opinion and others diverge. Those that would want the Blazers to consider trading Deni/Camara/etc wouldn't believe there are pieces here to contend.

 

[BIG Q]

We aren’t trading Deni unless we completely collapse in the first half and even then it’s very doubtful. Ant and Ayton were a detriment to the team and their min will go to players that give us a better chance at winning. Not sure why anyone would want to rebuild for 10 years. The pieces are here to win, they just need some experience.

Can’t get experience sitting behind Grant/Jrue. Sharpe or Scoot will be watching a lot of crunch time from the stands. Maybe both.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Grant is content to collect his money cause my guess is he knew good chance Dame was going to ask out and he took the payday prolly without a second thought. This means his agent does not HAVE to do shit and prolly will not do shit unless Grant decides getting a ring is important and pretty sure that is not happening. We are stuck with him for whatever reason .. as much as I want to blame Cronin we do not know how the contract talks went but I want to think Cronin MIGHT have been able to back out after Dame shit hit the fan but again no clue on how things went.

Cronin and Grant knew what they were getting into and Dame wasn't happy here. Dame wanted #3 pick traded for a vet - not used to draft his 19 year old replacement. Dame agent had a meeting with Cronin days before free agency. Dame always said that's how a trade demand would happen. Cronin later said he wasn't surprised Dame asked out.

Ramona Shelburne reported both Grant and The Blazers agreed to the deal eyes wide open that Dame might not be with the team.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Jerami made it clear at the beginning of last season that he had been told his status on the team was very uncertain. I inferred from the way he said it that he had been told they would try to trade him. He didn't seem upset about that so I again inferred that meant he was Ok with or happy to be on going somewhere else. I guess Tince caught me over-stating the case. That's all I am going to say.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I didn't say potential star, I said 'probable' star and that's the situation right now. That big leap' you mentioned for Deni, left him at 17-7-4. His big leap actually happened in Washington. He'll have to make another big leap over last season, and he'll turn 25 next season

CJ went from 7 points a game to 21 points a game, won MIP, and went up to 23 points a game the following season, and hovered around 22 points for 6 seasons. And he never really got a sniff of all-star recognition, even though he was a starter on a playoff team each of those seasons. It took Aldridge averaging 23 & 11 to make an all-star game. And he was part of a 54 win team. Aldridge was an all-star in his 6th season; Deni will be in his 6th year next season so sure, it's possible. But possible isn't the same as likely or probable

something else too: this insistence of trying to draw equivalency in ages without accounting for NBA experience is off the mark in my view. Yeah, Sharpe is the same age Roy was as a rookie, but that also means Sharpe has had three off-seasons of NBA work with coaches and trainers; three training camps; three years of NBA coaching; 3 seasons of NBA experience. Dame & Roy only had one training camp when they were 22 and hadn't played a single NBA game

It would be interesting to hear how many seasons the average freshman/high schooler took to become an all-star as Scoot/Sharpe were.

Seems to me like there were a lot of Jermaine O'Neal / TMac that took awhile but I'm not certain.

 

[Tince]

We aren’t trading Deni unless we completely collapse in the first half and even then it’s very doubtful. Ant and Ayton were a detriment to the team and their min will go to players that give us a better chance at winning. Not sure why anyone would want to rebuild for 10 years. The pieces are here to win, they just need some experience.

I wasn't one to buy-in to the theory that trading Dame was going to get us closer to contending in the next 4-5 years (which is about as far as I think any team can reasonably roster plan). Despite the trade working out in general, I still don't see the path to us contending within 5 years of trading Dame. So, I'm not a fan of rebuilding for 10 years.

I am a fan of maximizing assets though and I do not think Deni should be untradable by any means. I can't imagine anyone would think that's smart.

 

[Tince]

Jerami made it clear at the beginning of last season that he had been told his status on the team was very uncertain. I inferred from the way he said it that he had been told they would try to trade him. He didn't seem upset about that so I again inferred that meant he was Ok with or happy to be on going somewhere else. I guess Tince caught me over-stating the case. That's all I am going to say.

Appreciate that very well-reasoned and logical take! Make sense to me.

 

[LayneStaley]

I think this is the root difference of where your opinion and others diverge. Those that would want the Blazers to consider trading Deni/Camara/etc wouldn't believe there are pieces here to contend.

IMO if we don’t have the pieces to compete with 3 top 7 draft picks in a row and 2 forwards acquired in trade that are borderline all-stars(one of which could be a DPOY candidate) then I have real concerns over a future built around more picks. I’m more concerned with the coaching than the talent on this team.

 

[wizenheimer]

I wasn't one to buy-in to the theory that trading Dame was going to get us closer to contending in the next 4-5 years (which is about as far as I think any team can reasonably roster plan). Despite the trade working out in general, I still don't see the path to us contending within 5 years of trading Dame. So, I'm not a fan of rebuilding for 10 years.

I am a fan of maximizing assets though and I do not think Deni should be untradable by any means. I can't imagine anyone would think that's smart.

Portland doesn't have any elite talent. And that's what it takes to be a contender. If you're a fan satisfied with 40-50 wins and a shot at a first round win, then what the Blazer roster is right now is probably satisfactory

OKC got to the finals because of SGA and Jalen Williams. Without those two guys the Thunder might not have wons a playoff series. Indiana got there because of Haliburton and Siakam. Without them, maybe a 1st round exit. Boston won last season because of Tatum and Brown; Jrue and White wouldn't have got the Celtics past the semi's. And Dallas got to the finals because Doncic and Kyrie. Denver won because of Jokic and Murray. Aaron Gordon is as good as Deni and he wasn't going to get the Nuggets rings

again, if just returning the the playoffs is success enough, then sure, hold favorite players untouchable. If you want to contend, all options should be on the table

 

[LayneStaley]

Portland doesn't have any elite talent. And that's what it takes to be a contender. If you're a fan satisfied with 40-50 wins and a shot at a first round win, then what the Blazer roster is right now is probably satisfactory

OKC got to the finals because of SGA and Jalen Williams. Without those two guys the Thunder might not have wons a playoff series. Indiana got there because of Haliburton and Siakam. Without them, maybe a 1st round exit. Boston won last season because of Tatum and Brown; Jrue and White wouldn't have got the Celtics past the semi's. And Dallas got to the finals because Doncic and Kyrie. Denver won because of Jokic and Murray. Aaron Gordon is as good as Deni and he wasn't going to get the Nuggets rings

again, if just returning the the playoffs is success enough, then sure, hold favorite players untouchable. If you want to contend, all options should be on the table

How do we know Sharpe won’t have the kinda jump SGA had?

 

[LayneStaley]

If you wanna trade Deni/Camara for some young proven commodity sure but to trade them for picks 3 years from now doesn’t seem like a good idea.

 

[wizenheimer]

How do we know Sharpe won’t have the kinda jump SGA had?

SGA averaged 24-6-5 in his third season with a PER of 21.6, while playing solid defense. Sharpe average 19-5-3 with a PER of 14.5 while playing weak defense

in his 4th season, SGA averaged 25-5-6

looks like a significant gap so if Sharpe is going to jump, he needs to jump a lot

 

[LayneStaley]

SGA averaged 24-6-5 in his third season with a PER of 21.6, while playing solid defense. Sharpe average 19-5-3 with a PER of 14.5 while playing weak defense

in his 4th season, SGA averaged 25-5-6

looks like a significant gap so if Sharpe is going to jump, he needs to jump a lot

What kind of playing time was each getting that third year? Serious question. Was SGA starting all year that year?

 

[LayneStaley]

Nevermind looks like the min were roughly the same but SGA only played 35 games that year. I think a jump is in Sharpes future.

 

[Natebishop3]

SGA averaged 24-6-5 in his third season with a PER of 21.6, while playing solid defense. Sharpe average 19-5-3 with a PER of 14.5 while playing weak defense

in his 4th season, SGA averaged 25-5-6

looks like a significant gap so if Sharpe is going to jump, he needs to jump a lot

Wasn’t SGA the number one option though. They gave him the team. Sharpe has played pretty well when Simons was out. Neither Sharpe or Scoot has been handed the team like SGA.

 

[LayneStaley]

Wasn’t SGA the number one option though. They gave him the team. Sharpe has played pretty well when Simons was out. Neither Sharpe or Scoot has been handed the team like SGA.

small sample but I’ll take it.

 

[Tince]

How do we know Sharpe won’t have the kinda jump SGA had?

What signs point to Sharpe turning into an SGA level player?

I'll bet Sharpe isn't an all-star in year 5 and a three time all-star/all-NBA player by year 7.

 

[KingSpeed]

Portland doesn't have any elite talent. And that's what it takes to be a contender. If you're a fan satisfied with 40-50 wins and a shot at a first round win, then what the Blazer roster is right now is probably satisfactory

OKC got to the finals because of SGA and Jalen Williams. Without those two guys the Thunder might not have wons a playoff series. Indiana got there because of Haliburton and Siakam. Without them, maybe a 1st round exit. Boston won last season because of Tatum and Brown; Jrue and White wouldn't have got the Celtics past the semi's. And Dallas got to the finals because Doncic and Kyrie. Denver won because of Jokic and Murray. Aaron Gordon is as good as Deni and he wasn't going to get the Nuggets rings

again, if just returning the the playoffs is success enough, then sure, hold favorite players untouchable. If you want to contend, all options should be on the table

Camara is an elite talent. Jamal Murray has made the same amount of All Star appearances as Kris Murray.

 

[LayneStaley]

What signs point to Sharpe turning into an SGA level player?

I'll bet Sharpe isn't an all-star in year 5 and a three time all-star/all-NBA player by year 7.

I think the fact that he’s balled out pretty hard with no Simons blocking him is a pretty good sign. I don’t think he needs to turn into a top 3 NBA player for us to compete either.

 

[Tince]

Wasn’t SGA the number one option though. They gave him the team. Sharpe has played pretty well when Simons was out. Neither Sharpe or Scoot has been handed the team like SGA.

Correct. Nor have they done enough to warrant it.

 

[Tince]

I think the fact that he’s balled out pretty hard with no Simons blocking him is a pretty good sign. I don’t think he needs to turn into a top 3 NBA player for us to compete either.

SGA wasn't held back by established vets because he's good enough to separate himself from those guys by either being better than them or being able to play with them. That's a superstar skill.

 

[LayneStaley]

I swear the people that wanna trade our best players now are the same that used to tell me how crazy I was that I thought it was time to trade Dame. What goes around comes around I guess.

How bout this. Let’s start winning and see how far we can get with what we got and trade players accordingly.

 

[LayneStaley]

Correct. Nor have they done enough to warrant it.

Or maybe CB didn’t have the balls to sit Ant down on the bench where he belonged.

 

[Tince]

I swear the people that wanna trade our best players now are the same that used to tell me how crazy I was that I thought it was time to trade Dame. What goes around comes around I guess.

How bout this. Let’s start winning and see how far we can get with what we got and trade players accordingly.

Wait. So you thought it was a good idea to trade our best player and now you don't? Isn't that equally as crazy? Maybe more crazy because our previous best player was an All-NBA player while our current one isn't even an all-star.

And I do want to repeat myself, I'm not saying we have to get rid of Deni. I'm saying we should be open to trading him if we can get a return as good or better than Desmond Bane. I also was open to trading Dame for an elite return.

 

[KingSpeed]

Correct. Nor have they done enough to warrant it.

I disagree. Sharpe has increased his scoring each year even last year with a decrease in minutes. If we give the team to him, he can easily average 23-25 points.