Official Rising Stars Challenge Game Thread 2/15/2013 6pm PT

[THE HCP]

Damian is a mediocre PG.

Would one of you stat geeks compare Dame to the 29 other starting PGs and finish this debate please.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Who cares what his rookie numbers were? Is Damian on Deron's level now? The fact is, most players don't elevate their game to an elite level, that's why the elite are called elite. Imagining a player will reach that level is wishful thinking. Right now, Damian is a mediocre PG.

This outlook may be objective, but it sure isn't any fun.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Would one of you stat geeks compare Dame to the 29 other starting PGs and finish this debate please.

On it.

 

[THE HCP]

On it.

You my friend are a gentleman and a scholar.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

On it.

http://bkref.com/tiny/pjCxv

Turns out, he sucks.

 

[Rhal]

Did I really just read this thread and see someone bashing Lillard for being underwhelming when he is putting up one hell of a ROOKIE season? I must be drunk...

 

[Natebishop3]

Nate, summer league schmummer league. He's not in the upper echelon of NBA athletes and doesn't take it inside much. Guys like Russell Westbrook and Tony Parker for example, makes almost twice as many shots at the rim each game as Damian.

I post three videos, one of which is from the summer league, to dispel your comment about him being a "mediocre athlete" and that's all you can come up with?

I also like that you are comparing him to two All-Stars who have been in the league for years. He's a rookie. He doesn't get the same calls that Westbrook or Parker get. Give him time.

 

[Nikolokolus]

If Damian isn't a top five point guard by the end of the year I think the Blazers need to seriously think about trading him. I've heard he's basically no better than a Damon 2.0 clone.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Damian isn't a top five point guard by the end of the year I think the Blazers need to seriously think about trading him. I've heard he's basically no better than a Damon 2.0 clone.

Don't forget, he's a mediocre athlete as well.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Don't forget, he's a mediocre athlete as well.

How could we forget? Every time he dunks the ball, we're reminded of it.

 

[Sinobas]

Wow, you've proven that he can dunk. There are very few 6ft + players in the NBA that cannot dunk. A "Mediocre" nba athlete is an incredible athlete by any other standard, but compared to his peers, he's nothing special. Even if you're right about him being a great athlete, so what, he's not using that ability to score inside much, he's not a good defender, and he's shooting a low % from the field.

Here's a list of PGs that are clearly better than Lillard, let alone all the others you could argue about.

Chris Paul,Deron Williams,Derrick Rose,Russell Westbrook,Tony Parker,Kyrie Irving
Stephen Curry, Jrue Holliday and Rajon Rondo are currently the cream of the crop. Lillard is in the middle tier....which is what "mediocre" means, in the middle.

I'm not insulting Damian. He's, just not a top rate PG yet. I think some Blazer fans have been watching the likes of Steve Blake and Raymond Felton so long that a player a PG like Lillard seems like a superstar.

 

[magnifier661]

Wow, you've proven that he can dunk. There are very few 6ft + players in the NBA that cannot dunk. A "Mediocre" nba athlete is an incredible athlete by any other standard, but compared to his peers, he's nothing special. Even if you're right about him being a great athlete, so what, he's not using that ability to score inside much, he's not a good defender, and he's shooting a low % from the field.

Here's a list of PGs that are clearly better than Lillard, let alone all the others you could argue about.

Chris Paul,Deron Williams,Derrick Rose,Russell Westbrook,Tony Parker,Kyrie Irving
Stephen Curry, Jrue Holliday and Rajon Rondo are currently the cream of the crop. Lillard is in the middle tier....which is what "mediocre" means, in the middle.

I'm not insulting Damian. He's, just not a top rate PG yet. I think some Blazer fans have been watching the likes of Steve Blake and Raymond Felton so long that a player a PG like Lillard seems like a superstar.

Actually that doesn't mean mediocre. That would be above average. Mediocre is exactly middle of the pack. Those guards you just mentioned are way ahead of middle of the pack.

This is like saying Aldridge is a mediocre pf because you found 5 other pf that could be possibly better.

 

[julius]

Here's a list of PGs that are clearly better than Lillard, let alone all the others you could argue about.

Chris Paul,Deron Williams,Derrick Rose,Russell Westbrook,Tony Parker,Kyrie Irving
Stephen Curry, Jrue Holliday and Rajon Rondo are currently the cream of the crop. Lillard is in the middle tier....which is what "mediocre" means, in the middle.

Here are some comparisons, for athletic purposes. And btw, the reason I said check Derons rookie year is that their stats are very similar. Ages play a role, but I don't think it makes such a huge difference.

Damian is first, and then others in the same line. CP3 Deron Derrick Rose
Curry. Holliday and Westbrook.


Height w/o Shoes 6' 1.75" 5' 11.75"6' 1.75" 6' 1.5" 6' 2" 6' 3.25" 6' 2.25"
Height w/shoes 6' 2.75" 6' 1" 6' 2.75" 6' 2.5" 6' 3.25" 6' 4.25" 6' 3.5"
Weight 189 178 202 196 181 199 192
Wingspan 6' 7.75" 6' 4.25" 6' 6.25" 6' 8" 6' 3.5" 6' 7" 6' 7.75"
Standing Reach 7' 11.5" 7' 9" 8' 2" 8' 2.5" 8' 1" 8' 4.5" 8' 4"
Body Fat 5.9 NA NA 4.6 5.7 6.3 4.8
No Step Vert 34.5 32.0 30.0 34.5 29.5 28.5 30.0
Max Vert 39.5 38.0 35.0 40.0 35.5 34.0 36.5
Bench Press 13 10 15 10 10 6 12
Lane Agility 11.15 11.09 10.83 11.69 11.07 10.64 10.98
3/4 Court Sprint 3.34 3.22 3.25 3.05 3.28 3.21 3.08


hopefully this lines up right, i don't have time to edit it right now. THe #'s seem to be very similar, so the "mediocre" athleticism thing seems to be bunk.

 

[tlongII]

Lillard is great. He's just a rookie though. You have to keep that in mind.

 

[PapaG]

lol, what a thread. Really? somebody drink too much?

Either that or some sort of psychotic break.

Kind of out of nowhere with this one, too.

 

[julius]

Here are some comparisons, for athletic purposes. And btw, the reason I said check Derons rookie year is that their stats are very similar. Ages play a role, but I don't think it makes such a huge difference.

#'s deleted.

I think that shows that he's just about on par with everyone else. Better in some cases.

 

[PapaG]

 

[magnifier661]

Well since he had a poor performance at the rising star challenge; I expect him to bounce back and at least be solid at this event. One thing I've noticed about Lillard. He is really good at putting away a bad outing with an amazing one the next.

 

[PapaG]

Wow, you've proven that he can dunk. There are very few 6ft + players in the NBA that cannot dunk. A "Mediocre" nba athlete is an incredible athlete by any other standard, but compared to his peers, he's nothing special. Even if you're right about him being a great athlete, so what, he's not using that ability to score inside much, he's not a good defender, and he's shooting a low % from the field.

Here's a list of PGs that are clearly better than Lillard, let alone all the others you could argue about.

Chris Paul,Deron Williams,Derrick Rose,Russell Westbrook,Tony Parker,Kyrie Irving
Stephen Curry, Jrue Holliday and Rajon Rondo are currently the cream of the crop. Lillard is in the middle tier....which is what "mediocre" means, in the middle.

I'm not insulting Damian. He's, just not a top rate PG yet. I think some Blazer fans have been watching the likes of Steve Blake and Raymond Felton so long that a player a PG like Lillard seems like a superstar.

So I suppose players like LeBron James and Kobe Bryant raving about Lillard means nothing.

You should email them to say Lillard is a mediocre athlete! :MARIS61:

Is this the new HARRISON FUCKING BARNES thread?

Blaze01 may finally be off the hook.

 

[Sinobas]

Actually that doesn't mean mediocre. That would be above average. Mediocre is exactly middle of the pack. Those guards you just mentioned are way ahead of middle of the pack.

This is like saying Aldridge is a mediocre pf because you found 5 other pf that could be possibly better.

No it does not mean exactly, middle of the pack. But I listed 9 PGs that are hands down better than Lillard, there are only 30 teams in the NBA. So if you rank the PGs in the league 20-30 would be sub-par 1-10 would be good 11-19 would be "mediocre". Rank Lillard where you will, but his in the next group of guys, with players like Jennings, Lawson, Lowry etc. In other words, half the teams in the NBA have a PG that is about the same, or better than Lillard. LA ranks much higher on the PF list.

 

[Sinobas]

Lillard uses his athletisism to create jump shots for himself, rather than take it to the rim. Until he gets more aggressive, he'll never take his game to the next level.

 

[Rhal]

No it does not mean exactly, middle of the pack. But I listed 9 PGs that are hands down better than Lillard, there are only 30 teams in the NBA. So if you rank the PGs in the league 20-30 would be sub-par 1-10 would be good 11-19 would be "mediocre". Rank Lillard where you will, but his in the next group of guys, with players like Jennings, Lawson, Lowry etc. In other words, half the teams in the NBA have a PG that is about the same, or better than Lillard. LA ranks much higher on the PF list.

You do realize he is a rookie right? Hell Kyrie is an insane talent and you could pick 14 PG's last year that were better then Kyrie but not this year. Lillard has shown the ability to do just about everthing (except defend) that you want from a PG, but again he is a rookie and has only played in roughly 50 games. There shouldn't be any reason to rank him ahead of behind PG's this year, just look at what he does good what he does bad and make a list of things you want to see him improve upon from here on out and next year instead of trying to rank him above PG's who have a lot of NBA experience.

 

[Sean.ivity]

Hes a rookie avg 38.5 minutes a game 53 games into the season, its amazing hes still performing at the level he is... probably tired as hell, hes never played a schedule like this in his entire life hence the reason rookies hit "the wall"... I was talking with a few friends the other week and mentioning how many people around the Portland area probably don't realize how amazing of a rookie season hes actually having because were all expecting greatness out of him already, its become the norm.. I watch most of the games from the other teams prospective and there has not been 1 game where they have not raved about Damian Lillard.

 

[magnifier661]

No it does not mean exactly, middle of the pack. But I listed 9 PGs that are hands down better than Lillard, there are only 30 teams in the NBA. So if you rank the PGs in the league 20-30 would be sub-par 1-10 would be good 11-19 would be "mediocre". Rank Lillard where you will, but his in the next group of guys, with players like Jennings, Lawson, Lowry etc. In other words, half the teams in the NBA have a PG that is about the same, or better than Lillard. LA ranks much higher on the PF list.

Okay let's get technical. How about you average the performance of those 9 pg's rookie years to Lillards rookie year and get back to me. You've been judging him like he's some 10 year vet. The dude is only a rookie.

 

[Natebishop3]

No it does not mean exactly, middle of the pack. But I listed 9 PGs that are hands down better than Lillard, there are only 30 teams in the NBA. So if you rank the PGs in the league 20-30 would be sub-par 1-10 would be good 11-19 would be "mediocre". Rank Lillard where you will, but his in the next group of guys, with players like Jennings, Lawson, Lowry etc. In other words, half the teams in the NBA have a PG that is about the same, or better than Lillard. LA ranks much higher on the PF list.

Go back and look at some of the rookie stats for the guys you listed.

Chris Paul - 16.1 ppg, 7.9 assissts, 5.1 rebounds, 43% FG, 28.2% from three
Derrick Rose - 16.8 ppg, 6.3 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 47% FG, 22% from three
Russell Westbrook - 15.3 ppg, 5.3 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 39.8% FG, 27% from three
Deron Williams - 10.8 ppg, 4.5 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 42% FG, 41% from three
Tony Parker - 9.2 ppg, 4.3 assists, 2.6 rebounds, 41% FG, 32% from three
Kyrie Irving - 18.5 ppg, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% FG, 39% from three

Damian Lillard 18.3 ppg, 6.5 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 41.8% FG, 35% from three

So if you look at these numbers, you can see that your argument is absurd. You're comparing him to guys who have been in the league for years, who have honed their craft, who are confident and are conditioned. Lillard is having a stellar rookie season, especially when you compare him to some of the guys you named.

 

[magnifier661]

Go back and look at some of the rookie stats for the guys you listed.

Chris Paul - 16.1 ppg, 7.9 assissts, 5.1 rebounds, 43% FG, 28.2% from three
Derrick Rose - 16.8 ppg, 6.3 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 47% FG, 22% from three
Russell Westbrook - 15.3 ppg, 5.3 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 39.8% FG, 27% from three
Deron Williams - 10.8 ppg, 4.5 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 42% FG, 41% from three
Tony Parker - 9.2 ppg, 4.3 assists, 2.6 rebounds, 41% FG, 32% from three
Kyrie Irving - 18.5 ppg, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% FG, 39% from three

Damian Lillard 18.3 ppg, 6.5 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 41.8% FG, 35% from three

So if you look at these numbers, you can see that your argument is absurd. You're comparing him to guys who have been in the league for years, who have honed their craft, who are confident and are conditioned. Lillard is having a stellar rookie season, especially when you compare him to some of the guys you named.

Repp'd! Exactly my point! Thanks for doing the footwork!

 

[Natebishop3]

The funny thing is, if you want to start talking about mediocre, look at Parker's numbers as a rookie. Deron's weren't much better. I think a lot of Dame's shooting problems are related to fatigue and will probably bounce back next season.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Go back and look at some of the rookie stats for the guys you listed.

Chris Paul - 16.1 ppg, 7.9 assissts, 5.1 rebounds, 43% FG, 28.2% from three
Derrick Rose - 16.8 ppg, 6.3 assists, 3.9 rebounds, 47% FG, 22% from three
Russell Westbrook - 15.3 ppg, 5.3 assists, 4.9 rebounds, 39.8% FG, 27% from three
Deron Williams - 10.8 ppg, 4.5 assists, 2.4 rebounds, 42% FG, 41% from three
Tony Parker - 9.2 ppg, 4.3 assists, 2.6 rebounds, 41% FG, 32% from three
Kyrie Irving - 18.5 ppg, 5.4 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 46% FG, 39% from three

Damian Lillard 18.3 ppg, 6.5 assists, 3.2 rebounds, 41.8% FG, 35% from three

So if you look at these numbers, you can see that your argument is absurd. You're comparing him to guys who have been in the league for years, who have honed their craft, who are confident and are conditioned. Lillard is having a stellar rookie season, especially when you compare him to some of the guys you named.

TKO

 

[MickZagger]

The funny thing is, if you want to start talking about mediocre, look at Parker's numbers as a rookie. Deron's weren't much better. I think a lot of Dame's shooting problems are related to fatigue and will probably bounce back next season.

To be fair, Parker was a 19 year old as a rookie.

 

[julius]

To be fair, Parker was a 19 year old as a rookie.

To be fair, he also had 2 future hall of Famers on his team to help take some of the pressure off of him..