|| Official || Trade Deadline Thread (4 Viewers)

[PtldPlatypus]

That Dame PnR w/Plumlee is run about 15 times a game. Plumlee catches it in ample space to shoot probably 6-7 times a night, yet he doesn't. Why? Because he can't. If he develops that shot, then that dynamic changes.

If an NBA player has a skill, he's going to use it. It's not only a benefit to the team, it's a financial benefit to him. If he truly has that in his bag, he'd show it. This isn't one of those "taking one for the team" situations- he just can't shoot from 15' consistently.

I'd assume Stotts hadn't given him the green light to take that shot. But like I said--watch him in pregame shoot around. He has that shot. Don't assume just because it isn't being utilized that it doesn't exist. I've seen him nail that mid-range jump shot repeatedly. I was amazed at how much better his jumper looks than his free throw.

 

[Dan Marang]

I'd assume Stotts hadn't given him the green light to take that shot. But like I said--watch him in pregame shoot around. He has that shot. Don't assume just because it isn't being utilized that it doesn't exist. I've seen him nail that mid-range jump shot repeatedly. I was amazed at how much better his jumper looks than his free throw.

everyone in the NBA looks fantastic in warmups, ask @HCP - I bet you he'll tell you the exact same thing. I've seen the worst shooters in NBA history stroke from 3 pregame. Big difference when the lights and cameras come on.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

everyone in the NBA looks fantastic in warmups, ask @HCP - I bet you he'll tell you the exact same thing. I've seen the worst shooters in NBA history stroke from 3 pregame. Big difference when the lights and cameras come on.

So then, how do we know whether he can hit the shot in game if he never takes it in game? You spout dogmatically that he can't, but we don't know because it's not a part of the offense.

 

[Natebishop3]

That Dame PnR w/Plumlee is run about 15 times a game. Plumlee catches it in ample space to shoot probably 6-7 times a night, yet he doesn't. Why? Because he can't. If he develops that shot, then that dynamic changes.

If an NBA player has a skill, he's going to use it. It's not only a benefit to the team, it's a financial benefit to him. If he truly has that in his bag, he'd show it. This isn't one of those "taking one for the team" situations- he just can't shoot from 15' consistently.

Yup. That's one thing that Rolo could do that Plums can not. He could hit that 10-12 footer.

 

[blue9]

Stott doesn't have anyone who has any post offense skill. That's the real issue.

I find this line of reasoning either disingenuous or lazy. You don't need a post-player to create easy shots in the paint. Screens, cuts, and passing will do a better job than one PF/C creating on their own. Last year, when we supposedly had a guy with post offense skills we still attempted the 4th fewest shots in the paint. The year before we were 6th worst. The year before we were the 9th worst. Oddly enough, we get rid of LMA and we're seeing the highest attempts in the paint during the Stotts era! Though I think that's a testament to Dame/CJ/Plumlee.

 

[Dan Marang]

So then, how do we know whether he can hit the shot in game if he never takes it in game? You spout dogmatically that he can't, but we don't know because it's not a part of the offense.

this is a 2 parter- 1 it shows how awful his post footwork is. 2 it shows how comfortable/confident he is taking a jumper over a guy 6'8"

 

[Natebishop3]

this is a 2 parter- 1 it shows how awful his post footwork is. 2 it shows how comfortable/confident he is taking a jumper over a guy 6'8"

Video isn't there. Says "can't find it" or something along those lines.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

this is a 2 parter- 1 it shows how awful his post footwork is. 2 it shows how comfortable/confident he is taking a jumper over a guy 6'8"

Because attempting to create for himself and shooting a contested fadeaway is exactly the same as shooting open, balanced, and in rhythm off a well-placed feed.

 

[blue9]

Video isn't there. Says "can't find it" or something along those lines.

I see the video, and it's as described.
However, I know what it's like to not have embedded items show up - it happens to me often when I use Firefox on my home computer.

 

[Dan Marang]

I find this line of reasoning either disingenuous or lazy. You don't need a post-player to create easy shots in the paint. Screens, cuts, and passing will do a better job than one PF/C creating on their own. Last year, when we supposedly had a guy with post offense skills we still attempted the 4th fewest shots in the paint. The year before we were 6th worst. The year before we were the 9th worst. Oddly enough, we get rid of LMA and we're seeing the highest attempts in the paint during the Stotts era! Though I think that's a testament to Dame/CJ/Plumlee.

It's neither- the Blazers have one competent paint scorer in Ed Davis. You need to have players who move without the ball, catch the ball, and finish with the ball. The Blazers don't have that up and down their roster. It's a glaring weakness. Has been for some time. They have shot makers and shot creators, but not paint finishers. That's what the Blazers are lacking. There's no amount of coaching or cutting that changes that at the NBA level. Defenses have to honor those players that are cutting- if they aren't a threat at 20 feet then you don't go out there with them and instead sag off, clogging the paint. Which makes cutting futile. You can't have it in a vacuum. An NBA offense is like an ecosystem, each part driving the other. You can't just say do X and Y will happen. If A, B, C before it don't accomplish goals - then X doesn't mean anything.

 

[Natebishop3]

Because attempting to create for himself and shooting a contested fadeaway is exactly the same as shooting open, balanced, and in rhythm off a well-placed feed.

Plus.... he traveled. Funny that the refs didn't call that. He took four or five steps.

 

[Dan Marang]

Because attempting to create for himself and shooting a contested fadeaway is exactly the same as shooting open, balanced, and in rhythm off a well-placed feed.

Plumlee is 8 for 23 on the season on jump shots. I can pull more if you'd like. But it appears that no amount of empirical evidence will sway you opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

I would love it all of a sudden Plums was the BasedGod of midrange. That would just be the bee's pajamas, but unfortunately hopes and prayers don't translate to the NBA all that often.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Plumlee is 8 for 23 on the season on jump shots. I can pull more if you'd like. But it appears that no amount of empirical evidence will sway you opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

I would love it all of a sudden Plums was the BasedGod of midrange. That would just be the bee's pajamas, but unfortunately hopes and prayers don't translate to the NBA all that often.

I would love to see video evidence of him taking jump shots off of the pick and pop...you know, the one thing that I said from the beginning that I think he would be able to do well. If you'd like to actually present some "empirical evidence" that is actually relevant to the opinion you're attempting to dispute, then I'd gladly consider it. Up to this point, you've failed to do so.

 

[blue9]

It's neither- the Blazers have one competent paint scorer in Ed Davis. You need to have players who move without the ball, catch the ball, and finish with the ball. The Blazers don't have that up and down their roster. It's a glaring weakness. Has been for some time. They have shot makers and shot creators, but not paint finishers. That's what the Blazers are lacking. There's no amount of coaching or cutting that changes that at the NBA level. Defenses have to honor those players that are cutting- if they aren't a threat at 20 feet then you don't go out there with them and instead sag off, clogging the paint. Which makes cutting futile. You can't have it in a vacuum. An NBA offense is like an ecosystem, each part driving the other. You can't just say do X and Y will happen. If A, B, C before it don't accomplish goals - then X doesn't mean anything.

How do you explain DEN and PHI always been near the top of the list?
And I disagree that we don't have guys who could score in the paint if we had a system that utilized movement and passing. Aminu would be SO MUCH better if he never dribbled, but instead caught the ball in motion. Ditto for Harkless. Those two can catch and dunk better than anyone we've had in recent years. And we've all seen that Ed and Noah (recently) are good at catching/dunking. Crabbe is another. Sloan would have a field day with this roster.

 

[Dan Marang]

How do you explain DEN and PHI always been near the top of the list?
And I disagree that we don't have guys who could score in the paint if we had a system that utilized movement and passing. Aminu would be SO MUCH better if he never dribbled, but instead caught the ball in motion. Ditto for Harkless. Those two can catch and dunk better than anyone we've had in recent years. And we've all seen that Ed and Noah (recently) are good at catching/dunking. Crabbe is another. Sloan would have a field day with this roster.

Because DEN & PHI are loaded with guys who can dribble, catch, and dunk. Not to mention their rosters are loaded with hyper athletic guys who cut their teeth in college by dunking on people.

Now could the Blazers get some better looks by ball movement? Sure. But now you're taking away from Lillard and McCollum and what they do best. I'm not one to concede the ball to Plumlee over CJ/Dame at this point.

 

[Orion Bailey]

everyone in the NBA looks fantastic in warmups, ask @HCP - I bet you he'll tell you the exact same thing. I've seen the worst shooters in NBA history stroke from 3 pregame. Big difference when the lights and cameras come on.

And Defense...

So then, how do we know whether he can hit the shot in game if he never takes it in game? You spout dogmatically that he can't, but we don't know because it's not a part of the offense.

Because warm upas are also much different than practice and my guess is he isnt hitting it in practice either. He isn't hitting it in game situations period would be my thought. IF a big guy really has a consistent game time shot like that, you better believe Stotts would be using it. He is an offensive coach in the NBA. My money is the shot doesn't exist when it counts... but Ill add, yet. He is young and has plenty of room to improve his game time shot. He needs to make defense, and rebounding his main career weapon and develop the shot for when he gets older and isn't as quick. Obviously sooner the better would be nice though.

 

[Natebishop3]

If Plumlee could ad a consistent 10 footer to his game, he'd be a top 5 center. His understanding of the game and his ability to pass the ball make him extremely valuable. He's young enough that he could still take his game up a notch.

 

[blue9]

Because DEN & PHI are loaded with guys who can dribble, catch, and dunk. Not to mention their rosters are loaded with hyper athletic guys who cut their teeth in college by dunking on people.

Now could the Blazers get some better looks by ball movement? Sure. But now you're taking away from Lillard and McCollum and what they do best. I'm not one to concede the ball to Plumlee over CJ/Dame at this point.

So then you agree that you don't need a post-player to get shots in the paint. We have guys who can catch and dunk, and we have 4 players (Dame, CJ, Plumlee, Leonard) who are good at passing. I'm not taking away from Lillard/CJ at all - they are perfectly capable of handling the ball and making the pass to the cutting Aminu/Harkless/Davis/Crabbe/Vonleh - I bet even Meyers could be good at catching/dunking if we ran him off of screens instead of camping him at the top of the arc. We simply don't run plays that have guys cutting towards the hoop - nearly all of our screens are set for players moving AWAY from the hoop.

 

[Dan Marang]

I would love to see video evidence of him taking jump shots off of the pick and pop...you know, the one thing that I said from the beginning that I think he would be able to do well. If you'd like to actually present some "empirical evidence" that is actually relevant to the opinion you're attempting to dispute, then I'd gladly consider it. Up to this point, you've failed to do so.

it doesn't exist- b/c much like in this clip he doesn't have the capacity to square up and knock down the J. Here, instead of taking the open 10 footer- he instead opts for some sort of one handed shot-put. This goes back to the whole- if he had it in his bag he would do it. No NBA player is going to not shoot that shot if it's an effective/efficient part of their game. Hell there's plenty of players in the league who take dumb shots that aren't effective. Why, would a guy like Plumlee (who's coming due for a contract next season) not show what he's got? Or, is it more likely that a player doesn't have that in his skill set and does well to play within himself?

 

[42N8Bounce]

If the Blazers are looking for a defensive rim protector, one just became available -

 

[BBert]

Waived in China. That's about as low as it gets.

I hear IHOP is hiring.

 

[Natebishop3]

If the Blazers are looking for a defensive rim protector, one just became available -

Does this spell the end for zombie Oden?

 

[Dan Marang]

So then you agree that you don't need a post-player to get shots in the paint. We have guys who can catch and dunk, and we have 4 players (Dame, CJ, Plumlee, Leonard) who are good at passing. I'm not taking away from Lillard/CJ at all - they are perfectly capable of handling the ball and making the pass to the cutting Aminu/Harkless/Davis/Crabbe/Vonleh - I bet even Meyers could be good at catching/dunking if we ran him off of screens instead of camping him at the top of the arc. We simply don't run plays that have guys cutting towards the hoop - nearly all of our screens are set for players moving AWAY from the hoop.

Do you NEED one? No. Is it better to have one? Yes. Because it does more than just turn into the occasional cutter. You're talking about what they COULD do. This could is fantasyland. It's what one CAN do in the NBA that matters. CJ and Dame can bang from deep. They can't finish inside. So where does the bulk of their offense come from? DeAndre Jordan CAN dunk on dudes. Where does his offense come from?

The only non-bigs in the NBA who have more than 100 total points this season on cuts are Jabari Parker and Jimmy Butler. Plumlee and Davis are up there- so those cuts... they're happening. Already. The reason you don't see cuts coming from the wings:
#1 they're not good at it.
#2 they (outside Aminu) don't have the size
#3 floor balance goes to hell when you send smalls through the lane constantly

Link to NBA.com

 

[Scalma]

Plumlee is 8 for 23 on the season on jump shots. I can pull more if you'd like. But it appears that no amount of empirical evidence will sway you opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

I'm guessing most of his attempts have been of the "oh shit, the clock is running out and no ones open so let's throw this up and see what happens" variety, because I sure as hell don't remember him taking any designed jumpers.

 

[Dan Marang]

I'm guessing most of his attempts have been of the "oh shit, the clock is running out and no ones open so let's throw this up and see what happens" variety, because I sure as hell don't remember him taking any designed jumpers.

8 of the 23 were taken with less than 5 seconds on the shot clock

4 were taken in/around the avg catch and shoot 1.4 seconds or less

15 were taken after dribbling.

That's the breakout. What else ya got?

 

[brendanjames]

Does this spell the end for zombie Oden?

Australia next...

 

[brendanjames]

Australia next...

It's the worldwide farewell tour. Kobe is thinking too small.

 

[Blazinaway]

Plumlee is 8 for 23 on the season on jump shots. I can pull more if you'd like. But it appears that no amount of empirical evidence will sway you opinion so I'll just leave it at that.

I would love it all of a sudden Plums was the BasedGod of midrange. That would just be the bee's pajamas, but unfortunately hopes and prayers don't translate to the NBA all that often.

Plums has no "mid range" game of consequence, it is flat out obvious

 

[SheedSoNasty]

What are the chances Steve Blake ends up a Blazer before the deadline? I give it a 75% chance.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

If Plumlee could ad a consistent 10 footer to his game, he'd be a top 5 center. His understanding of the game and his ability to pass the ball make him extremely valuable. He's young enough that he could still take his game up a notch.

I agree, and in a season which should be devoted to development, shouldn't he be encouraged to take more of those?