OT Oregon wildfires

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Who cares what those kids feel? Fuck them.

They are destroying beautiful pieces of land and possibly communities.

They should have their dicks cut off and be turned into eunuchs.

And if they are tried, the judge should make them have to perform copious amounts of community service trying to restore some of the trees.

I understand, I guess I'm just putting myself in their shoes when they DO get older and have to deal with this. It does make me sad.

That should not be confused with me saying it's okay what they did. There's no correlation between the two.
 
http://www.wweek.com/news/2017/09/0...-group-of-kids-who-found-it-funny-to-do-this/

Portland resident Liz FitzGerald witnessed a teenage boy throwing the firecrackers that are believed to have sparked a wildfire now tearing through more than 10,000 acres of the Columbia River Gorge. She alerted police.

This afternoon, Oregon State Police announced that the suspect is a 15-year-old boy from Vancouver, Wash.

FitzGerald first told her story to Oregon Public Broadcasting this morning. She then gave a detailed recounting of the events of Sept. 2 to WW.

Here's her account of what she saw.

"It was 100 degrees in town and I wanted to be in some water. Some friends of mine had gone up to Punch Bowl [Falls] about a month earlier and I'd seen video of them jumping in the waterfall and it looked awesome to me.



I decided to go up there because of the water and the last time I had been up there was 20 years ago because the trail is kind of sketchy and made me nervous because of the 400 foot drop.

I went up and saw the sign that said the trail was closed at 3 miles because of the fire.

When I came up to 1.5 miles up the trail, I came upon a large group of teenagers. They were kind of flanking the trail and I walked right in between them. I was standing right next to one of them who was filming and about four people away from me I saw a young boy lob a smoke bomb down into the ravine.

I said 'Do you realize how dangerous it is what you just did? They have the trail closed up ahead because of a raging wildfire.' I wanted to underscore the severity of what they just did. I said 'This whole area is so dry.'

They didn't say anything. And after he lobbed it I thought I heard a couple of girls giggle and the guy just filmed it like it was no big deal. And then they just continued down the trail.


I continued to walk up. I looked and saw smoke coming up from the smoke bomb and I just thought it was just from that. It was kind of crazy but I still had it on my mind about getting up to the water. I walked another two minutes or so and I thought 'If I get stuck in a wildfire because I was so determined to get to this watering hole, I would feel like a total idiot.'

Right when that came to me, I saw this couple coming down from the mountain and I said to them, 'I just saw a teenager throw a firecracker down into the ravine and I think its smoking.' And they said 'Yea, we saw them up at Punch Bowl lighting off firecrackers.'

I turned around and I started running down the mountain and I ran past where I had seen them and I looked down and at that point it was huge amounts of smoke and I could smell that the forest was on fire.

I just ran down the whole mountain telling people as I came by them that there was a fire. I told them 'I saw someone throw a firecracker, and it is smoking. I think it's on fire, I saw smoke, I don't know for sure that its on fire.' Because I didn't see flames but I saw billowing smoke and could smell the fire.


I kept running down and I don't know that people were heeding my call.

I passed the teenagers at that point. It was a smaller group of maybe seven or nine. Just as I was passing them I said 'Do you realize you just started a forest fire?' and the kid said, 'Well, what are we supposed to do about it now?' And I yelled over my shoulder 'Call the freaking fire department!'




I ran to the parking lot, didn't see anybody, started running through the parking lot and came across law enforcement. I said 'I need to report, I think there's a fire. I saw a kid throw a firecracker and I saw all the smoke.' He immediately called it in.

He then started getting my story and as I was telling him I said 'Can we move and get to the trailhead because I'm afraid they're going to get into one of the cars parked closer to the trail head and I don't want them to just drive away.'

We started walking, and it was about twelve paces that we took, and I saw a minivan go by. It was all tinted windows in the back windows but I saw the female in the passenger side and I did not recognize her but she had an expression on her face that looked like she was getting away with something. She looked like she was having fun and she was excited about getting away. That's what my gut told me. I looked at them and I said 'I think that they're in that car.'

He said 'Are you comfortable getting in the car with me?' and I said 'Yes.'

We ran to the law enforcement car and we jumped in and he turned on the sirens. And the kids blazed through the parking lot with all these pedestrians and kids and stuff walking up to get to the trail.

The law enforcement officer is obviously delayed because he isn't wanting to mow people over. We can't see the minivan and then we can see them. Just as we were getting onto the onramp to the I-84 heading east he was right on their tail and they pulled over.



I had described the kid that I had seen throw the firecracker, caucasian, five-foot-six, fit, brown hair, shorts, he either didn't have a shirt on or he was wearing a muscle tee or something.

The Forest Service guy was interviewing the kid in front of the car I was in and I couldn't hear anything he was saying. The Forest Service guy came back to the car and looked at me expectantly and I said I can't say for sure if it was him because this kid was wearing a blue t-shirt.

So, that kid went back into the minivan and another kid came out of the minivan and I had never really seen the other kid. Then he [the Forest Service officer] came back and I said 'I don't really recognize him' and he said 'Well, he just confessed that it was them who did it.'

Then the state patrol came. I went back to my car to get my phone and came back and at that point state patrol was there asking them questions. And I gave my report.

Then we were looking over our shoulder and could see smoke. We could see that it was full-on a fire and the smoke was just billowing up.

I felt like I was having a nightmare and I still feel like I am because they had no reaction that I could see. I don't know these kids but just looking at them… and when they walked down the mountain, when I came upon them they were walking a very casual pace down the mountain.

I felt like I was in a nightmare because these kids were not reacting the way I felt normal people would react. It was all very frustrating.

I really felt like it's not just that one boy that lobbed it. He had a friend that filmed it. There was a whole group of kids who found it funny to do this. The girl's expression as she drove by. None of them seemed at all to understand what they were doing.

When I sat and watched the kids being interviewed by the police, I don't know what they were feeling but I got a glimpse of at least one young woman or girl who looked like she was just hanging out like it was just any other day."

I could totally see this happening. I knew kids like them. I had a friend that liked to set off fireworks in people's mailboxes. Or throw eggs at cars. The usual destructive shit. He never really grew out of it. I cut him loose pretty quick after high school. He got another friend of mine in trouble with the law simply because they were roommates.
 
I understand, I guess I'm just putting myself in their shoes when they DO get older and have to deal with this. It does make me sad.

That should not be confused with me saying it's okay what they did. There's no correlation between the two.
One day, I do believe, they'll get it. And the education that comes from it will be catastrophic to them.

Good.
 
So I had heard that because the kid crossed state lines to commit the crime, it could be a felony and he's old enough to be tried as an adult.
 
The worst thing I did when I was 16 was get arrested for skipping school with my friends and keep watch while they looked for pot in some old guy's shed. This kid takes the cake.
 
I don't know if I'm just getting used to it or not, but both my girlfriend and I agreed that there's a significant improvement in Gresham since late this afternoon. The street lights next to our place are definitely not as smoked over, that's for sure. I think a wind change has occurred. Something happened
 
I don't know if I'm just getting used to it or not, but both my girlfriend and I agreed that there's a significant improvement in Gresham since late this afternoon. The street lights next to our place are definitely not as smoked over, that's for sure. I think a wind change has occurred. Something happened
My wife said the same thing from our backyard tonight.
 
I don't know if I'm just getting used to it or not, but both my girlfriend and I agreed that there's a significant improvement in Gresham since late this afternoon. The street lights next to our place are definitely not as smoked over, that's for sure. I think a wind change has occurred. Something happened
It's the wind. or at least when I was watching the news at 5 in the morning that's what they said. The winds were coming strong from the east, now they are moving north kinda making the fire push against itself which is why it hasn't grown much this afternoon compared to the rapid growth this morning
 
I could totally see this happening. I knew kids like them. I had a friend that liked to set off fireworks in people's mailboxes. Or throw eggs at cars. The usual destructive shit. He never really grew out of it. I cut him loose pretty quick after high school. He got another friend of mine in trouble with the law simply because they were roommates.

lol we did that shit all the time. well, not the eggs at cars but we threw waterbaloons and shot them with super soakers
 
Who cares what those kids feel? Fuck them.

They are destroying beautiful pieces of land and possibly communities.

They should have their dicks cut off and be turned into eunuchs.

And if they are tried, the judge should make them have to perform copious amounts of community service trying to restore some of the trees.
 
My first wave of thoughts are I really hope anyone or anyones family around this area are safe. This is vey tragic and I can only imagine what peril this is causing.

My second thought I hope the kid(s) get fucked. Seriously. They straight up can get fucked.
 
You know, this is something I really don't want to get lost in this situation. People are sitting here getting pissed at these kids but don't seem to realize that a firecracker could have been a lightning bolt. It could have been a cigarette butt. Anything could have happened to cause these wildfires. The Northwest is like a Tinderbox right now. My son was saying just the other day:

"Papa we should spray water on all the trees several times a year so that we could prevent forest fires."

Now, that may or may not do anything but the point was that we have a young child looking forward at what we could do to prevent forest fires and make our forests human proof.

The kids should be punished but they're always going to be the kids that accidentally started the Eagle Creek Fire and that's going to haunt them for the rest of their lives. They are just 15 year old kids that were on a school field trip. I bet this 15 year old boy really feels like shit.

The bottom line is that we don't do controlled burns like we should and that creates situations where forest fires burn thousands of Acres.
 
Wow, the weather dude on channel 12 just said people are overreacting. It's just trees, all the buildings have been saved. The gorge gets lots of rain so everything will grow back but nothing has to be rebuilt.
 
See here's what I don't get:

If we all know that 15 year old kids do stupid shit, why are we focusing on these kids instead of focusing on doing things to prevent forest fires like controlled Burns? Like I said before those firecrackers could have easily been a lightning bolt.
 
See here's what I don't get:

If we all know that 15 year old kids do stupid shit, why are we focusing on these kids instead of focusing on doing things to prevent forest fires like controlled Burns? Like I said before those firecrackers could have easily been a lightning bolt.

It's the gorge. It would be extremely difficult and dangerous to do a controlled burn.
 
Bullshit. The natives did it there all the time.

Native Americans used controlled burns for hunting purposes in the Willamette valley but there is no evidence that I've heard of that it was for forest management or hunting in the Columbia River Gorge.

Some interesting little known history about the native americans in the Columbia River Gorge, they developed lamp oil from salmon they caught. The trading of salmon based lamp oil made them the economic hub of the PNW tribes. Other tribes would travel and trade with them. They also invented some basic gambling games.
 
You know, this is something I really don't want to get lost in this situation. People are sitting here getting pissed at these kids but don't seem to realize that a firecracker could have been a lightning bolt. It could have been a cigarette butt. Anything could have happened to cause these wildfires. The Northwest is like a Tinderbox right now. My son was saying just the other day:

"Papa we should spray water on all the trees several times a year so that we could prevent forest fires."

Now, that may or may not do anything but the point was that we have a young child looking forward at what we could do to prevent forest fires and make our forests human proof.

The kids should be punished but they're always going to be the kids that accidentally started the Eagle Creek Fire and that's going to haunt them for the rest of their lives. They are just 15 year old kids that were on a school field trip. I bet this 15 year old boy really feels like shit.

The bottom line is that we don't do controlled burns like we should and that creates situations where forest fires burn thousands of Acres.

Yeah. It's not even so much the trees. It's the underbrush that causes the fires. But people like to leave nature completely untouched. They put up signs telling you to only stay on the trails. The natives did controlled burns but they also did it to clear land for farming. People don't seem to understand that if you leave nature completely untouched, eventually this will happen.

But climate change is definitely having a huge impact on our forests.
 
Native Americans used controlled burns for hunting purposes in the Willamette valley but there is no evidence that I've heard of that it was for forest management or hunting in the Columbia River Gorge.

Some interesting little known history about the native americans in the Columbia River Gorge, they developed lamp oil from salmon they caught. The trading of salmon based lamp oil made them the economic hub of the PNW tribes. Other tribes would travel and trade with them. They also invented some basic gambling games.

Read up tho:

Documented Reasons or Purposes for Indian Burning

Keeping large areas of forest and mountains free of undergrowth and small trees was just one of many reasons for using fire in ecosystems. What follows is a summary of documented reasons or purposes for changing ecosystems through intentional burning by American Indians. This activity has greatly modified landscapes across the continent in many subtle ways that have often been interpreted as "natural" by the early explorers, trappers, and settlers. Even many research scientists who study presettlement forest and savannah fire evidence tend to attribute most prehistoric fires as being caused by lightning (natural) rather than by humans. This problem arises because there was no systematic record keeping of these fire events. Thus the interaction of people and ecosystems is down played or ignored, which often leads to the conclusion that people are a problem in "natural" ecosystems rather than the primary force in their development.

Henry T. Lewis, who has authored more books and articles on this subject than anyone else, concluded that there were at least 70 different reasons for the Indians firing the vegetation (Lewis 1973). Other writers have listed fewer number of reasons, using different categories (Kay 1994; Russell 1983). In summary, there are eleven major reasons for American Indian ecosystem burning, which are derived from well over 300 studies:

  • Hunting - The burning of large areas was useful to divert big game (deer, elk, bison) into small unburned areas for easier hunting and provide open prairies/meadows (rather than brush and tall trees) where animals (including ducks and geese) like to dine on fresh, new grass sprouts. Fire was also used to drive game into impoundments, narrow chutes, into rivers or lakes, or over cliffs where the animals could be killed easily. Some tribes used a surround fire to drive rabbits into small areas. The Seminoles even practiced hunting alligators with fire. Torches were used to spot deer and attract or see fish at night. Smoke used to drive/dislodge raccoons and bears from hiding.
  • Crop management - Burning was used to harvest crops, especially tarweed, yucca, greens, and grass seed collection. In addition, fire was used to prevent abandoned fields from growing over and to clear areas for planting corn and tobacco. One report of fire being used to bring rain (overcome drought). Clearing ground of grass and brush to facilitate the gathering of acorns. Fire used to roast mescal and obtain salt from grasses.
  • Improve growth and yields - Fire was often used to improve grass for big game grazing (deer, elk, antelope, bison), horse pasturage, camas reproduction, seed plants, berry plants (especially raspberries, strawberries, and huckleberries), and tobacco.
  • Fireproof areas - Some indications that fire was used to protect certain medicine plants by clearing an area around the plants, as well as to fireproof areas, especially around settlements, from destructive wildfires. Fire was also used to keep prairies open from encroaching shrubs and trees.
  • Insect collection - Some tribes used a "fire surround" to collect & roast crickets, grasshoppers, pandora moths in pine forests, and collect honey from bees.
  • Pest management - Burning was sometimes used to reduce insects (black flies & mosquitos) and rodents, as well as kill mistletoe that invaded mesquite and oak trees and kill the tree moss favored by deer (thus forcing them to the valleys where hunting was easier). Some tribes also used fire to kill poisonous snakes.
  • Warfare & signaling - Use of fire to deprive the enemy of hiding places in tall grasses and underbrush in the woods for defense, as well as using fire for offensive reasons or to escape from their enemies. Smoke signals used to alert tribes about possible enemies or in gathering forces to combat enemies. Large fires also set to signal a gathering of tribes. During the Lewis & Clark expedition, a tree was set on fire by Indians in order to "bring fair weather" for their journey.
  • Economic extortion - Some tribes also used fire for a "scorched-earth" policy to deprive settlers and fur traders from easy access to big game and thus benefitting from being "middlemen" in supplying pemmican and jerky.
  • Clearing areas for travel - Fires were sometimes started to clear trails for travel through areas that were overgrown with grass or brush. Burned areas helped with providing better visibility through forests and brush lands for hunting and warfare purposes.
  • Felling trees - Fire was reportedly used to fell trees by boring two intersecting holes into the trunk, then drop burning charcoal in one hole, allowing the smoke to exit from the other. This method was also used by early settlers. Another way to kill trees was to surround the base with fire, allowing the bark and/or the trunk to burn causing the tree to die (much like girdling) and eventually topple over. Fire also used to kill trees so that the wood could later be used for dry kindling (willows) and firewood (aspen).
  • Clearing riparian areas - Fire was commonly used to clear brush from riparian areas and marshes for new grasses and tree sprouts (to benefit beaver, muskrats, moose, and waterfowl).
 
Read up tho:

Documented Reasons or Purposes for Indian Burning

Keeping large areas of forest and mountains free of undergrowth and small trees was just one of many reasons for using fire in ecosystems. What follows is a summary of documented reasons or purposes for changing ecosystems through intentional burning by American Indians. This activity has greatly modified landscapes across the continent in many subtle ways that have often been interpreted as "natural" by the early explorers, trappers, and settlers. Even many research scientists who study presettlement forest and savannah fire evidence tend to attribute most prehistoric fires as being caused by lightning (natural) rather than by humans. This problem arises because there was no systematic record keeping of these fire events. Thus the interaction of people and ecosystems is down played or ignored, which often leads to the conclusion that people are a problem in "natural" ecosystems rather than the primary force in their development.

Henry T. Lewis, who has authored more books and articles on this subject than anyone else, concluded that there were at least 70 different reasons for the Indians firing the vegetation (Lewis 1973). Other writers have listed fewer number of reasons, using different categories (Kay 1994; Russell 1983). In summary, there are eleven major reasons for American Indian ecosystem burning, which are derived from well over 300 studies:

  • Hunting - The burning of large areas was useful to divert big game (deer, elk, bison) into small unburned areas for easier hunting and provide open prairies/meadows (rather than brush and tall trees) where animals (including ducks and geese) like to dine on fresh, new grass sprouts. Fire was also used to drive game into impoundments, narrow chutes, into rivers or lakes, or over cliffs where the animals could be killed easily. Some tribes used a surround fire to drive rabbits into small areas. The Seminoles even practiced hunting alligators with fire. Torches were used to spot deer and attract or see fish at night. Smoke used to drive/dislodge raccoons and bears from hiding.
  • Crop management - Burning was used to harvest crops, especially tarweed, yucca, greens, and grass seed collection. In addition, fire was used to prevent abandoned fields from growing over and to clear areas for planting corn and tobacco. One report of fire being used to bring rain (overcome drought). Clearing ground of grass and brush to facilitate the gathering of acorns. Fire used to roast mescal and obtain salt from grasses.
  • Improve growth and yields - Fire was often used to improve grass for big game grazing (deer, elk, antelope, bison), horse pasturage, camas reproduction, seed plants, berry plants (especially raspberries, strawberries, and huckleberries), and tobacco.
  • Fireproof areas - Some indications that fire was used to protect certain medicine plants by clearing an area around the plants, as well as to fireproof areas, especially around settlements, from destructive wildfires. Fire was also used to keep prairies open from encroaching shrubs and trees.
  • Insect collection - Some tribes used a "fire surround" to collect & roast crickets, grasshoppers, pandora moths in pine forests, and collect honey from bees.
  • Pest management - Burning was sometimes used to reduce insects (black flies & mosquitos) and rodents, as well as kill mistletoe that invaded mesquite and oak trees and kill the tree moss favored by deer (thus forcing them to the valleys where hunting was easier). Some tribes also used fire to kill poisonous snakes.
  • Warfare & signaling - Use of fire to deprive the enemy of hiding places in tall grasses and underbrush in the woods for defense, as well as using fire for offensive reasons or to escape from their enemies. Smoke signals used to alert tribes about possible enemies or in gathering forces to combat enemies. Large fires also set to signal a gathering of tribes. During the Lewis & Clark expedition, a tree was set on fire by Indians in order to "bring fair weather" for their journey.
  • Economic extortion - Some tribes also used fire for a "scorched-earth" policy to deprive settlers and fur traders from easy access to big game and thus benefitting from being "middlemen" in supplying pemmican and jerky.
  • Clearing areas for travel - Fires were sometimes started to clear trails for travel through areas that were overgrown with grass or brush. Burned areas helped with providing better visibility through forests and brush lands for hunting and warfare purposes.
  • Felling trees - Fire was reportedly used to fell trees by boring two intersecting holes into the trunk, then drop burning charcoal in one hole, allowing the smoke to exit from the other. This method was also used by early settlers. Another way to kill trees was to surround the base with fire, allowing the bark and/or the trunk to burn causing the tree to die (much like girdling) and eventually topple over. Fire also used to kill trees so that the wood could later be used for dry kindling (willows) and firewood (aspen).
  • Clearing riparian areas - Fire was commonly used to clear brush from riparian areas and marshes for new grasses and tree sprouts (to benefit beaver, muskrats, moose, and waterfowl).

Indian burns hurt like hell :sigh:

I never thought about where that term came from actually...
 
@dviss1 - Has your brother-in-law turned up? Also, I'll be praying for you and son (and everyone else in the path of Irma) this weekend... stay safe!
 
Read up tho:

Documented Reasons or Purposes for Indian Burning

Keeping large areas of forest and mountains free of undergrowth and small trees was just one of many reasons for using fire in ecosystems. What follows is a summary of documented reasons or purposes for changing ecosystems through intentional burning by American Indians. This activity has greatly modified landscapes across the continent in many subtle ways that have often been interpreted as "natural" by the early explorers, trappers, and settlers. Even many research scientists who study presettlement forest and savannah fire evidence tend to attribute most prehistoric fires as being caused by lightning (natural) rather than by humans. This problem arises because there was no systematic record keeping of these fire events. Thus the interaction of people and ecosystems is down played or ignored, which often leads to the conclusion that people are a problem in "natural" ecosystems rather than the primary force in their development.

Henry T. Lewis, who has authored more books and articles on this subject than anyone else, concluded that there were at least 70 different reasons for the Indians firing the vegetation (Lewis 1973). Other writers have listed fewer number of reasons, using different categories (Kay 1994; Russell 1983). In summary, there are eleven major reasons for American Indian ecosystem burning, which are derived from well over 300 studies:

  • Hunting - The burning of large areas was useful to divert big game (deer, elk, bison) into small unburned areas for easier hunting and provide open prairies/meadows (rather than brush and tall trees) where animals (including ducks and geese) like to dine on fresh, new grass sprouts. Fire was also used to drive game into impoundments, narrow chutes, into rivers or lakes, or over cliffs where the animals could be killed easily. Some tribes used a surround fire to drive rabbits into small areas. The Seminoles even practiced hunting alligators with fire. Torches were used to spot deer and attract or see fish at night. Smoke used to drive/dislodge raccoons and bears from hiding.
  • Crop management - Burning was used to harvest crops, especially tarweed, yucca, greens, and grass seed collection. In addition, fire was used to prevent abandoned fields from growing over and to clear areas for planting corn and tobacco. One report of fire being used to bring rain (overcome drought). Clearing ground of grass and brush to facilitate the gathering of acorns. Fire used to roast mescal and obtain salt from grasses.
  • Improve growth and yields - Fire was often used to improve grass for big game grazing (deer, elk, antelope, bison), horse pasturage, camas reproduction, seed plants, berry plants (especially raspberries, strawberries, and huckleberries), and tobacco.
  • Fireproof areas - Some indications that fire was used to protect certain medicine plants by clearing an area around the plants, as well as to fireproof areas, especially around settlements, from destructive wildfires. Fire was also used to keep prairies open from encroaching shrubs and trees.
  • Insect collection - Some tribes used a "fire surround" to collect & roast crickets, grasshoppers, pandora moths in pine forests, and collect honey from bees.
  • Pest management - Burning was sometimes used to reduce insects (black flies & mosquitos) and rodents, as well as kill mistletoe that invaded mesquite and oak trees and kill the tree moss favored by deer (thus forcing them to the valleys where hunting was easier). Some tribes also used fire to kill poisonous snakes.
  • Warfare & signaling - Use of fire to deprive the enemy of hiding places in tall grasses and underbrush in the woods for defense, as well as using fire for offensive reasons or to escape from their enemies. Smoke signals used to alert tribes about possible enemies or in gathering forces to combat enemies. Large fires also set to signal a gathering of tribes. During the Lewis & Clark expedition, a tree was set on fire by Indians in order to "bring fair weather" for their journey.
  • Economic extortion - Some tribes also used fire for a "scorched-earth" policy to deprive settlers and fur traders from easy access to big game and thus benefitting from being "middlemen" in supplying pemmican and jerky.
  • Clearing areas for travel - Fires were sometimes started to clear trails for travel through areas that were overgrown with grass or brush. Burned areas helped with providing better visibility through forests and brush lands for hunting and warfare purposes.
  • Felling trees - Fire was reportedly used to fell trees by boring two intersecting holes into the trunk, then drop burning charcoal in one hole, allowing the smoke to exit from the other. This method was also used by early settlers. Another way to kill trees was to surround the base with fire, allowing the bark and/or the trunk to burn causing the tree to die (much like girdling) and eventually topple over. Fire also used to kill trees so that the wood could later be used for dry kindling (willows) and firewood (aspen).
  • Clearing riparian areas - Fire was commonly used to clear brush from riparian areas and marshes for new grasses and tree sprouts (to benefit beaver, muskrats, moose, and waterfowl).

Yes, native americans used fire for many reasons all across North America. Locally, the Camas natives used it for crops. The natives of the Willamette valley used it for crops, nuts and hunting. But again, I have not heard of specific uses of fire by natives for forest management in the Columbia River Gorge.

Also like I originally said, it would be extremely difficult and dangerous to do controlled burns in the gorge today. The gorge is Oregon's number one tourist attraction. To safely inform and eliminate all the people in that area in order to conduct controlled burns would be a monumental task.

What is done today in the Columbia River Gorge is debris and undergrowth are removed and transported to large piles and those are set on fire. But as I hope you realize this is a gorge. This type of fire management is only conducted near roads.
 
Has anybody seen an estimate of the carbon emissions associated with these forest fires? I find it odd that people are still talking about "controlled burns" in the era of climate change concerns.
 
Yes, native americans used fire for many reasons all across North America. Locally, the Camas natives used it for crops. The natives of the Willamette valley used it for crops, nuts and hunting. But again, I have not heard of specific uses of fire by natives for forest management in the Columbia River Gorge.

Also like I originally said, it would be extremely difficult and dangerous to do controlled burns in the gorge today. The gorge is Oregon's number one tourist attraction. To safely inform and eliminate all the people in that area in order to conduct controlled burns would be a monumental task.

What is done today in the Columbia River Gorge is debris and undergrowth are removed and transported to large piles and those are set on fire. But as I hope you realize this is a gorge. This type of fire management is only conducted near roads.
Sly has a hard enough time rounding up you assholes. Could you imagine telling people not to visit?

The ensuing bitching about the government killing people and not doing their best is far too easy to see from a billion miles away.

The weather dude on fox yesterday said when it gets to 80 or so, the gorge will cool down to the mid 60's and moisturize.
That seems like a better call than wetting the forests and wasting water we already have issues with people peeing in.
 
@dviss1 - Has your brother-in-law turned up? Also, I'll be praying for you and son (and everyone else in the path of Irma) this weekend... stay safe!

No....

We still haven't heard from him. But I'm really assuming he's ok. He tends to be a drifter. Thank you so much.
 
Yes, native americans used fire for many reasons all across North America. Locally, the Camas natives used it for crops. The natives of the Willamette valley used it for crops, nuts and hunting. But again, I have not heard of specific uses of fire by natives for forest management in the Columbia River Gorge.

Also like I originally said, it would be extremely difficult and dangerous to do controlled burns in the gorge today. The gorge is Oregon's number one tourist attraction. To safely inform and eliminate all the people in that area in order to conduct controlled burns would be a monumental task.

What is done today in the Columbia River Gorge is debris and undergrowth are removed and transported to large piles and those are set on fire. But as I hope you realize this is a gorge. This type of fire management is only conducted near roads.

I guess I just disagree. There's a solution and we need to find it. We cannot concede that it's a hopeless situation that we're doomed to succumb to. My forward thinking son is thinking of a solution now.

How many other kids are?
 

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