OT: Are you one of the good guys?

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...have been for a long time.

...here's to us, and those like us,...damn few left.
 
totus44 said:
[video=youtube;sflb0PRviDw]
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Define "Good" all things being relative...?

oops never mind, i didn't see the pic or video, whatever it is....will have to go to town to view it if its a video, all I'm getting is a blank blacked out screeen...
 
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...there are no facts, there is no truth
Just a data to be manipulated
I can get any result you like
What's it worth to ya?
Because there is no wrong, there is no right
And I sleep very well at night
No shame, no solution
No remorse, no retribution
Just people selling T-shirts
Just opportunity to participate in the pathetic little circus
And winning, winning, winning"
 
...there's an awful lot of disgusted citizens, I know that much.

...things need to change drastically...and very soon. This country is in big trouble.
 
I'm on the fence with this topic. All I know is that my next door neighbor doesn't need a fucking AK47 or any other automatic rifle & a few hundred rounds of amo to protect his home. A simple hand gun would do.
 
Was at a dinner hosted by my father in law celebrating the conclusion of a successful Rodeo his team put on (PRCA, PBR circuit), and I agreed with a cowboy sitting across from me when he said that touring the country people were hurting and pretty unhappy with the current administration. Well all of a sudden some drunk woman jumps into the conversation and says hell she was happy with them because her stocks were doing great. Not wanting to cause a scene, I nodded and said good for you followed by a comment that shut her up....oh if you have stocks outside your 401K then that makes you part of the ten Percenter's, so double good for you.
 
Rick2583 said:
I'm on the fence with this topic. All I know is that my next door neighbor doesn't need a fucking AK47 or any other automatic rifle & a few hundred rounds of amo to protect his home. A simple hand gun would do.
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Rick, its the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Needs. Rifles can actually be far more effective than handguns, and the rounds are less likely to over penetrate walls. As for ammo, I can shoot a couple hundred rounds at the range in a few hours. If I take a class, the average number of rounds can be 500-750/day over 2-3 days.

Your view is just under informed and lacks the practical experiences. I've known a lot of reasonable folks like you on your side of the issues. I typically take them to the range and let them experience the shotgun vs handgun vs AR/AK choice. The rifle has now become the weapon of choice choice for law enforcement both on duty and at home.

Oh and Rick.....no one outsidethe military, LE and govt agencies ( including BLM, IRS, Social Security) have automatic weapons. Civilians have semiautomatic...one projectile per trigger pull.
 
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totus44 said:
Rick, its the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Needs. Rifles can actually be far more effective than handguns, and the rounds are less likely to over penetrate walls. As for ammo, I can shoot a couple hundred rounds at the range in a few hours. If I take a class, the average number of rounds can be 500-750/day over 2-3 days.

Your view is just under informed and lacks the practical experiences. I've known a lot of reasonable folks like you on your side of the issues. I typically take them to the range and let them experience the shotgun vs handgun vs AR/AK choice. The rifle has now become the weapon of choice choice for law enforcement both on duty and at home.

Oh and Rick.....no one outsidethe military, LE and govt agencies ( including BLM, IRS, Social Security) have automatic weapons. Civilians have semiautomatic...one projectile per trigger pull.
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The Bushmaster that was used in the Sandy hook massacre is a weapon used by the military & law inforcement. Did Mrs Lanza really need to have this kind of weapon in her home & who's the dumb bastard that sold it to her?


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/a-history-of-the-rifle-used-in-the-sandy-hook-massacre
 
Rick2583 said:
The Bushmaster that was used in the Sandy hook massacre is a weapon used by the military & law inforcement. Did Mrs Lanza really need to have this kind of weapon in her home & who's the dumb bastard that sold it to her?


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/a-history-of-the-rifle-used-in-the-sandy-hook-massacre
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Incorrect. The bushmaster was a civilian semi auto version, the military used the select fire version. Adam Lanza stole that weapon, he was breaking quite a few laws before he exploited the victim zone at that school. That kid was going to kill regardless of what weapons he could steal.

I notice you didn't used the most recent example of Eliot Rodger, was that because he also used a kitchen knife and a BMW to kill and maim?

Moreover you present a single individual as a means to question what sane law abiding citizens may or may not own? That's a pretty weak argument and I expect much better from you.
 
totus44 said:
Incorrect. The bushmaster was a civilian semi auto version, the military used the select fire version. Adam Lanza stole that weapon, he was breaking quite a few laws before he exploited the victim zone at that school. That kid was going to kill regardless of what weapons he could steal.

I notice you didn't used the most recent example of Eliot Rodger, was that because he also used a kitchen knife and a BMW to kill and maim?

Moreover you present a single individual as a means to question what sane law abiding citizens may or may not own? That's a pretty weak argument and I expect much better from you.
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Tom dispite how I may sound I'm not an anti gun nut. I think people have every right to protect there homes & business's. I'm all for it. I just think things need to be a little more regulated. And by regulated I'm only saying they should have EXTENSIVE back round checks. You mentioned this kid Rodger, this kid had nut written all over his history, how he wasn't flagged is a mystery to many. They say his weapons were LEGALLY obtained, I really wish someone could explain to me what that entailed. Look I'll admit my ignorance on this topic, I'm just looking at things from MY logical point of view. I just think a home owner or a store owner should have a weapon that holds no more then 6 or 8 at a clip. I'm seriously okay with that. I just have a problem with ANY citizen keeping a weapon at there fingertips that's capable of taking out over a dozen people in a matter of seconds. And yes I'm fully aware that someone can walk into a hall full of people with two fully loaded hand guns & accomplish the same thing. But I think you get my point. At least I hope so.

And on that note, I'm getting back to the Yankee game to see if they can manage more then 2 runs for the night.
 
Rick2583 said:
I'm on the fence with this topic. All I know is that my next door neighbor doesn't need a fucking AK47 or any other automatic rifle & a few hundred rounds of amo to protect his home. A simple hand gun would do.
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...but what if the guy breaking into your home has an AK-47...how would you feel about your hand gun then?


...that's like the proverbial "bringing a knife to a gun fight".





...did you take note of the guns seized today in NY from the gang bust?...I'd much rather have more fire power and not need it than to need more fire power and not have it.
 
Rick2583 said:
Tom dispite how I may sound I'm not an anti gun nut. I think people have every right to protect there homes & business's. I'm all for it. I just think things need to be a little more regulated. And by regulated I'm only saying they should have EXTENSIVE back round checks. You mentioned this kid Rodger, this kid had nut written all over his history, how he wasn't flagged is a mystery to many. They say his weapons were LEGALLY obtained, I really wish someone could explain to me what that entailed. Look I'll admit my ignorance on this topic, I'm just looking at things from MY logical point of view. I just think a home owner or a store owner should have a weapon that holds no more then 6 or 8 at a clip. I'm seriously okay with that. I just have a problem with ANY citizen keeping a weapon at there fingertips that's capable of taking out over a dozen people in a matter of seconds. And yes I'm fully aware that someone can walk into a hall full of people with two fully loaded hand guns & accomplish the same thing. But I think you get my point. At least I hope so.

And on that note, I'm getting back to the Yankee game to see if they can manage more then 2 runs for the night.
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...background checks?...that's all well and good for the guns that are bought LEGALLY...but what about the others? If someone wants to buy or trade for a weapon they don't have to a reputable dealer. Millions of weapons change hands each year without Obama's approval.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...but what if the guy breaking into your home has an AK-47...how would you feel about your hand gun then?


...that's like the proverbial "bringing a knife to a gun fight".





...did you take note of the guns seized today in NY from the gang bust?...I'd much rather have more fire power and not need it than to need more fire power and not have it.
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If my first shot is between his eyes its really not going to matter what he has will it?
 
yankeesince59 said:
...background checks?...that's all well and good for the guns that are bought LEGALLY...but what about the others? If someone wants to buy or trade for a weapon they don't have to a reputable dealer. Millions of weapons change hands each year without Obama's approval.
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And yes, sad but true. But I really would like to know what kind of a back round check they did on this kid Rodger. ALL his weapons (they said) were obtained LEGALLY.
 
Rick2583 said:
If my first shot is between his eyes its really not going to matter what he has will it?
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..."between the eyes"?...then you'd better shoot him from 3 feet away or either be an exceptional shot.
 
Rick2583 said:
And yes, sad but true. But I really would like to know what kind of a back round check they did on this kid Rodger. ALL his weapons (they said) were obtained LEGALLY.
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...the point remains, if someone wants to kill people there's not much anyone can do to stop it. They can use a gun, a car, a home made bomb, park a van full of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in front of a government building, or fly a jet into a skyscraper.
 
yankeesince59 said:
...the point remains, if someone wants to kill people there's not much anyone can do to stop it. They can use a gun, a car, a home made bomb, park a van full of ammonium nitrate fertilizer in front of a government building, or fly a jet into a skyscraper.
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This is all true but why help it along. At this point anything they do would help. Even a little.

Yankee lead cut in half.
 
...oh they can try, and I expect them to...but in the meantime, I'll keep my semi-automatic rifle, my deer rifle, and my pump shot gun loaded and in the closet...and my sawed off double barrel under the bed. Anyone who has the misfortune of breaking into my home will be in a world of hurt. I'll assume they have bad intentions and I will shoot to kill...and won't lose a minute's sleep over it.
 
I am all for the 2nd... I support it completely... but my bride won't allow a gun in the house... and I wouldn't know where to start... I'd love a pistol for protection and something for hunting... but again, wouldn't know where to begin for the hunting...
 
Hammerojustice said:
I am all for the 2nd... I support it completely... but my bride won't allow a gun in the house... and I wouldn't know where to start... I'd love a pistol for protection and something for hunting... but again, wouldn't know where to begin for the hunting...
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I can picture you sneaking through the woods with a big hat hunting for wabbits.
 
Rick2583 said:
I can picture you sneaking through the woods with a big hat hunting for wabbits.
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Wabbits or deersies or bears or turkeys or pheasants or hell, all the stray cats that are using my yard as a toilet... my 120 lb dog doesn't scare them away... permanently, only when he's out there...
 
Hammerojustice said:
I am all for the 2nd... I support it completely... but my bride won't allow a gun in the house... and I wouldn't know where to start... I'd love a pistol for protection and something for hunting... but again, wouldn't know where to begin for the hunting...
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Hammer, I'd start by going to a local indoor range and take a basic firearms safety class....even better if you do it with your bride. As for hunting, before you ever take a shot at a living creature, a basic rifle course such as the Appleseed project or any number of NRA sponsored classes are a great place to begin when you're ready. I started when I was 7 with my dad.
 
Rick2583 said:
Tom dispite how I may sound I'm not an anti gun nut. I think people have every right to protect there homes & business's. I'm all for it. I just think things need to be a little more regulated. And by regulated I'm only saying they should have EXTENSIVE back round checks. You mentioned this kid Rodger, this kid had nut written all over his history, how he wasn't flagged is a mystery to many. They say his weapons were LEGALLY obtained, I really wish someone could explain to me what that entailed. Look I'll admit my ignorance on this topic, I'm just looking at things from MY logical point of view. I just think a home owner or a store owner should have a weapon that holds no more then 6 or 8 at a clip. I'm seriously okay with that. I just have a problem with ANY citizen keeping a weapon at there fingertips that's capable of taking out over a dozen people in a matter of seconds. And yes I'm fully aware that someone can walk into a hall full of people with two fully loaded hand guns & accomplish the same thing. But I think you get my point. At least I hope so.

And on that note, I'm getting back to the Yankee game to see if they can manage more then 2 runs for the night.
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Look Rick, you can in fact hollar fire in a crowded theater, that is protected speech. It does have consequences, just like someone misusing a firearm. Since you want to be logical, than you need to see the common theme among all these horrible crimes....criminally insane and mentally deficient individuals. We have background checks, registration and any number of statutes that infringe on law abiding people...what we no longer have is a means to detain, incarcerate or commit people that are a danger to themselves or others in a timely manner, and to then legally disarm them until further evaluation.

In more than 1,000,000 events each year, someone uses a firearm to thwart an act of aggression. And the scenes where these tradegies occur also have another common theme, they are gun-free zones in states or cities that make getting a concealed carry permit onerous.
 
yankeesince59 said:
..."between the eyes"?...then you'd better shoot him from 3 feet away or either be an exceptional shot.
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The average number of shots fired in self defense is proportional to the weapon capacity, all but 1 or 2 rounds. That was before some states like NY decided 7 was enough....even though that number is half of what NY law enforcement officers fire in self defense. Magazine limits to not existent magazines is a De facto ban and violates SCOTUS precedent that states 2A protects use of firearms in their designed configuration. 7 and 10 round pistol mags don't meet that standard for most calibers, same for 10 round mags for ARs and AKs, those were designed to use 20 or 30 rounders.
 
totus44 said:
Rob, good and bad are universal...I reject the premise that definitions are relative. ;)
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I too reject the notion definitions are relative. I don't see good or bad as definitions, I see these as concepts or pre-conceptualized mind sets. Perhaps its semantics, (are we saying something similar with different words?).....once again, clouding my often geriatric blind vision or mental focus too...LOL....perhaps its my buddy Al Heimer knocking on my door, which breaks my out of focus -(lack of)- attention span. :unsure:

Not to confuse "Universal" with "Absolutes"....

I do see good and bad as universal, yet also as pre-concepts or conceptual, based on ones relative knowledge and experiences, mental conditioning, something like that.....but then I'm not a Philosopher.....I really wouldn't know.....!!!:confused:

I do subscribe to Ron's input:
"...there are no facts, there is no truth
Just a data to be manipulated
I can get any result you like
What's it worth to ya?
Because there is no wrong, there is no right"

or-as Tom Robbins said in "Even Cowgirls Get The Blues"
"I believe in everything, nothing is sacred.
I believe in nothing, everything is sacred".

Like metrics (for any and everything), I've seen to well, how one can take a situation and make it look "good", "great", "bad" or "horrible"...."normal or abnormal".....all these truths? Convenient or In-convenient...?
:emotions:

I'll return to my "I don't know mind".....its about the only way I learn anything these days....!!! I best go back to my rumplestiltskin chambers.....:notworthy2:

Wake me up before 3 pm..... :sleeping: back to my nap, which is all day....

Signed-Rumplestiltskin Rob..... :lol:

One of my longest old friends, who I went to high school with, is a Dept. Head-Professor of Philosophy at Texas A&M. We used to debate, whether philosophy was chasing "the pointless point", he'd disagree, I'd draw no conclusions.

The one and, few good things, about Philosophy was established by Socrates and Plato, ie. sit around under the moonlight, drink plenty of endless flowing wine, and talk, of the moon, star, human conditions, and anything that came into ones half baked/dazed mind, at the moment....What a life, eh? And, to think those 2 are iconic historical giants of their field...In comparison, I'm just a piss ant....hehe...!!
:emotions:
:sleeping:
 
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