OT- Around the NBA

[Nikolokolus]

Ha. Nice.

Also, unlike a lot of people, I think Kemba Walker and Bismack Biyombo will both be solid pros. Add in Davis or MKG, and they could be a player in a year or two

I like both of those guys ... Walker has got to get better at finishing and Biyombo is raw as hell, but in two years they might have something with those two guys. A Davis-Biyombo front line is an intriguing defensive combo.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well first you thought it was a good idea to compare Utah to the Blazers as you acknowleged that you thought Utah had good management. I noticed Utah is fighting for the 8th seed in a year they have no chance to win a championship . . . so I'm guessing you are no longer a belief in the way Utah runs an organization.

Liking what Cho is doing is consistent with what you think the Blazers should do . . . hit rock bottom to get the best draft picks possible. But if "building" the worst team in history is the right path, I want to root for the team on the wrong path. I hope the day never comes where the Blazers are threatening the worst record all time (while I am still paying for tickets).

I have nothing against Cho, but if he thinks he is going to have another league high scorer handed to him through the draft, he is going to be disappointed.

Utah already burned it down last year and just happen to be farther along than most observers thought they would be ... good on them for returning to competitiveness so quickly and having a very young roster with good players all over.

 

[jlprk]

History of the Nets, in anecdotes, 3 pages.

The Nets were desperate to entertain their few fans. To celebrate the Mt. St. Helens eruption which killed 50 people, they staged a fake eruption at halftime in their arena, with a dwarf stoking volcanic ashes provided by Maurice Lucas, who had just been acquired from the Blazers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/s...35-years-an-often-sorry-state-of-affairs.html

 

[Mediocre Man]

History of the Nets, in anecdotes, 3 pages.

The Nets were desperate to entertain their few fans. To celebrate the Mt. St. Helens eruption which killed 50 people, they staged a fake eruption at halftime in their arena, with a dwarf stoking volcanic ashes provided by Maurice Lucas, who had just been acquired from the Blazers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/s...35-years-an-often-sorry-state-of-affairs.html

Sounds like that was more on Mo than the Nets. He knew about the damage and lost lives. He probably should have told them east coasters to fuck off.

 

[jlprk]

That was just a teaser. I meant to recommend the whole article. It's full of anecdotes.

 

[jlprk]

I was listening to the radio the other day on a national show and they were talking about the Bobcats and how Jordan's a disaster as an owner. Well anyways, they had a long time beat writer on and he was talking about Cho for a minute and he said Jordan has a good GM in place. He said don't be fooled by Cho's short stop in Portland. Because Cho was ultimately advocating what the mangled Blazers front office is currently doing, he was just a year ahead of the game. I kinda smiled when I heard that.

No he wasn't. He wanted a long-term blowup like Charlotte, lasting several years. Paul Allen will give us a good team next season. Our blowup has only been for 2 months. We had to get rid of Cho.

 

[MickZagger]

No he wasn't. He wanted a long-term blowup like Charlotte, lasting several years. Paul Allen will give us a good team next season. Our blowup has only been for 2 months. We had to get rid of Cho.

link?

 

[PapaG]

Well first you thought it was a good idea to compare Utah to the Blazers as you acknowleged that you thought Utah had good management. I noticed Utah is fighting for the 8th seed in a year they have no chance to win a championship . . . so I'm guessing you are no longer a belief in the way Utah runs an organization.

Liking what Cho is doing is consistent with what you think the Blazers should do . . . hit rock bottom to get the best draft picks possible. But if "building" the worst team in history is the right path, I want to root for the team on the wrong path. I hope the day never comes where the Blazers are threatening the worst record all time (while I am still paying for tickets).

I have nothing against Cho, but if he thinks he is going to have another league high scorer handed to him through the draft, he is going to be disappointed.

Yeah, I guess I don't see how tanking in the most obvious way possible for a 1 in 4 shot at the #1 pick is praise-worthy. If you're the GM of a 7-win team, you've had a terrible season, and unless you get things fixed fast, you'll be fired within a few years.

 

[jlprk]

Because Cho was ultimately advocating what the mangled Blazers front office is currently doing, he was just a year ahead of the game.

Link? My evidence is that what Cho's happy doing in Charlotte is what he wanted to do here. What's your evidence that he didn't want a wreck here lasting years, when that's what he's enjoying doing there?

 

[PapaG]

History of the Nets, in anecdotes, 3 pages.

The Nets were desperate to entertain their few fans. To celebrate the Mt. St. Helens eruption which killed 50 people, they staged a fake eruption at halftime in their arena, with a dwarf stoking volcanic ashes provided by Maurice Lucas, who had just been acquired from the Blazers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/23/s...35-years-an-often-sorry-state-of-affairs.html

[video=youtube;T7wcyLrPqC4]

 

[MickZagger]

Link? My evidence is that what Cho's happy doing in Charlotte is what he wanted to do here. What's your evidence that he didn't want a wreck here lasting years, when that's what he's enjoying doing there?

I asked first. Whats your proof?

 

[jlprk]

I asked second and two is more than one. What's your proof?

Oh alright, you win, I'll give my proof but then you have to give yours.

http://www.innovatia.com/Design_Center/Proof_that_2=1.htm

 

[Mediocre Man]

Well first you thought it was a good idea to compare Utah to the Blazers as you acknowleged that you thought Utah had good management. I noticed Utah is fighting for the 8th seed in a year they have no chance to win a championship . . . so I'm guessing you are no longer a belief in the way Utah runs an organization.

Liking what Cho is doing is consistent with what you think the Blazers should do . . . hit rock bottom to get the best draft picks possible. But if "building" the worst team in history is the right path, I want to root for the team on the wrong path. I hope the day never comes where the Blazers are threatening the worst record all time (while I am still paying for tickets).

I have nothing against Cho, but if he thinks he is going to have another league high scorer handed to him through the draft, he is going to be disappointed.

Others agree with me about Utah's management

http://www.scrippsnews.com/content/kevin-oconnor-building-jazz-title-contender

http://basketball.realgm.com/blog/220583/The_Genius_Of_Kevin_OConnor

 

[jlprk]

Speak of the Devil! Here's an article today about whether Charlotte and Cho overtanked.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/41217/how-the-draft-lottery-built-worst-team-ever

 

[Nikolokolus]

Speak of the Devil! Here's an article today about whether Charlotte and Cho overtanked.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/41217/how-the-draft-lottery-built-worst-team-ever

Actually it talks more about the 5 years of futility and mismanagement that took place before Cho got there ... all Cho is doing is taking the steaming pile of donkey poo he was handed and trying to tank properly. There's no guarantee, but it beats the hell out of drafting at around 11 or so which is where that team was going to be stuck with cornerstones like Wallace, Felton, et al. Odds are they won't get Davis (75%) but with guys like Robinson, MKG, Beal, etc. as consolation prizes they'll probably get some kind of help.

 

[Blaze01]

Actually it talks more about the 5 years of futility and mismanagement that took place before Cho got there ... all Cho is doing is taking the steaming pile of donkey poo he was handed and trying to tank properly. There's no guarantee, but it beats the hell out of drafting at around 11 or so which is where that team was going to be stuck with cornerstones like Wallace, Felton, et al. Odds are they won't get Davis (75%) but with guys like Robinson, MKG, Beal, etc. as consolation prizes they'll probably get some kind of help.

Winner. Winner. CHA was such a fucking mess before Cho even got there. I don't think it was ever Cho's intention to blow the entire POR team to bits, but he correctly identified that this team needed a major rebuild a good year before Allen and his idiots did, and for that, and b\c he is kind of an awkward guy, he was fired. It was a stupid decision by a stupid owner...par for the course.

and Cho was right, Roy was done, Oden was one more knee injury...err 2? from irrelancy for POR and the rest of the roster was marginal at best...

Instead of Cho running the draft, we got Chad "I couldn't find talent if it was staring me in the face" Buchanan who took Nolan Smith...

I'd feel MUCH more comfortable with Cho in charge of the front office than the Miller\Buchanan "lack of" brain trust..

 

[THE HCP]

Got to our hotel here in SLC an hour or so ago. Just walked past Nash on the way thru the lobby. Suns vs Jazz tonight. We are all going to the game....... not sure who I'm rooting for though. Kinda' want the Jazz to have to beat us tomorrow night to get into the playoffs...... be kinda' sweet to crush their playoff hopes!

 

[RR7]

Actually it talks more about the 5 years of futility and mismanagement that took place before Cho got there ... all Cho is doing is taking the steaming pile of donkey poo he was handed and trying to tank properly. There's no guarantee, but it beats the hell out of drafting at around 11 or so which is where that team was going to be stuck with cornerstones like Wallace, Felton, et al. Odds are they won't get Davis (75%) but with guys like Robinson, MKG, Beal, etc. as consolation prizes they'll probably get some kind of help.

Not only that, but the one move he did make there, at the draft, he traded Stephen Jackson, Livingston, and the 19 pick for Maggette and the 7th pick. Maggette and Jackson being on very similar contracts. That's a fantastic move. Screwed Petrie in Sacramento bad, got him to trade 7 and Udrih for 10 and Salmons, on a much worse contract. Was a great move by a team looking to rebuild. Judging him off of their record, when the cupboard was beyond bare when he got there is just foolish.

 

[MickZagger]

Not only that, but the one move he did make there, at the draft, he traded Stephen Jackson, Livingston, and the 19 pick for Maggette and the 7th pick. Maggette and Jackson being on very similar contracts. That's a fantastic move. Screwed Petrie in Sacramento bad, got him to trade 7 and Udrih for 10 and Salmons, on a much worse contract. Was a great move by a team looking to rebuild. Judging him off of their record, when the cupboard was beyond bare when he got there is just foolish.

Absolutely. Great post.

 

[PapaG]

Not only that, but the one move he did make there, at the draft, he traded Stephen Jackson, Livingston, and the 19 pick for Maggette and the 7th pick. Maggette and Jackson being on very similar contracts. That's a fantastic move. Screwed Petrie in Sacramento bad, got him to trade 7 and Udrih for 10 and Salmons, on a much worse contract. Was a great move by a team looking to rebuild. Judging him off of their record, when the cupboard was beyond bare when he got there is just foolish.

Seven. Fucking. Wins. Applauding that performance is just odd to me. You don't go from 7 to playoffs without making a bunch of other great moves, and Kemba Walker is mediocre (15 PER on 25 USG), and Bismack Biyombo is a project who isn't going to produce much during his rookie contract, and who will be a defensive role player on a team with much, much better players around him.

I understand that Cho is some sort of hero here, but he just put together a team that is going to have the worst winning % in NBA history, and drafted two players in the lottery last year who don't seem at all elite at this point.

 

[PapaG]

Still wondering how Charlotte is poised for some big upgrade. I'm not sure they have a legitimate NBA starter on their entire roster right now.

 

[MickZagger]

Seven. Fucking. Wins. Applauding that performance is just odd to me. You don't go from 7 to playoffs without making a bunch of other great moves, and Kemba Walker is mediocre (15 PER on 25 USG), and Bismack Biyombo is a project who isn't going to produce much during his rookie contract, and who will be a defensive role player on a team with much, much better players around him.

I understand that Cho is some sort of hero here, but he just put together a team that is going to have the worst winning % in NBA history, and drafted two players in the lottery last year who don't seem at all elite at this point.

Cho's a hero!

 

[RR7]

Seven. Fucking. Wins. Applauding that performance is just odd to me. You don't go from 7 to playoffs without making a bunch of other great moves, and Kemba Walker is mediocre (15 PER on 25 USG), and Bismack Biyombo is a project who isn't going to produce much during his rookie contract, and who will be a defensive role player on a team with much, much better players around him.

I understand that Cho is some sort of hero here, but he just put together a team that is going to have the worst winning % in NBA history, and drafted two players in the lottery last year who don't seem at all elite at this point.

Nobody is saying he's a hero. Nobody is acting as if he is the greatest GM ever. That's the hyperbole and strawman-ish claims you want to add to the discussion so it isn't an actual discussion, but your usual stream of bullshit.
He made a really good trade at the draft last season, and, in my opinion, is making the right choices in Charlotte to attempt to add talent through the draft, because the team he inherited was not any good. You seem to expect he should have made moves in the offseason to better the team, as if it would have bettered the team. Who was he adding to the team to make them even a playoff level team? Anyone available that could have added 25 wins to that squad? Doubtful.

 

[PapaG]

Nobody is saying he's a hero. Nobody is acting as if he is the greatest GM ever. That's the hyperbole and strawman-ish claims you want to add to the discussion so it isn't an actual discussion, but your usual stream of bullshit.
He made a really good trade at the draft last season, and, in my opinion, is making the right choices in Charlotte to attempt to add talent through the draft, because the team he inherited was not any good. You seem to expect he should have made moves in the offseason to better the team, as if it would have bettered the team. Who was he adding to the team to make them even a playoff level team? Anyone available that could have added 25 wins to that squad? Doubtful.

The team he inherited won 34 games after winning 45 the previous year.

Seven. Fucking. Wins. I'm not going to apologize, or take your "bullshit" insult, for calling a complete disgrace what it is, which is a complete disgrace. Make excuses for Cho, I guess, but maybe Paul Allen was right? And I'm not fan of Paul Allen's, but Charlotte is redefining terrible in the NBA.

Cheap shot on the "bullshit" insult, but whatever. I respect your opinion, I just disagree with it. As if I'm the first to use hyperbole in this community. Funny how it's Cho that made you lash out, though.

 

[PapaG]

Only on this board is criticizing a GM who just won 7 games in his first season a "stream" of "bullshit". Applauding him seems to be the same from my perspective, but I certainly wouldn't post it.

Yippee. Cho moved up in the draft to get what, exactly? Unless he gets Anthony Davis, who isn't a sure thing, even, he'll be out of a job in 3 years. If Cho staying meant that Portland would trade away LMA this year and win 7 games, no fucking thank you.

 

[RR7]

all of that might matter if Cho had taken over that specific team, and moved them to a 7 win team. But he didn't.
they had a terrible team. Yep. No arguments here. Or from anyone. They were a bad team. I don't think anyone would blame Cho for that, however. Well, except you. Nor should they.
Would/should Sam Presti be considered an idiot for taking over a 31 win team, with a future HOF on it in Ray Allen, and an all star in Rashard Lewis, 2 20 ppg scorers, and immediately turning it into a back to back 20 win team? Or would you be able at all to realize that there is a process and method involved?

 

[PapaG]

all of that might matter if Cho had taken over that specific team, and moved them to a 7 win team. But he didn't.
they had a terrible team. Yep. No arguments here. Or from anyone. They were a bad team. I don't think anyone would blame Cho for that, however. Well, except you. Nor should they.
Would/should Sam Presti be considered an idiot for taking over a 31 win team, with a future HOF on it in Ray Allen, and an all star in Rashard Lewis, 2 20 ppg scorers, and immediately turning it into a back to back 20 win team? Or would you be able at all to realize that there is a process and method involved?

Please stop with your strawman arguments. You just lectured me about them.

I'll point out this, though. The best thing that ever happened to Sam Presti was getting the #2 pick in the 2007 NBA draft instead of the #1 pick. He'd be unemployed had he "won" that lottery, and probably wouldn't have sniffed the playoffs before getting fired. And yes, that's another strawman, but I believe it to be pretty much true.

 

[RoyToy]

Cho's best role is an assistant GM. I don't think he has the cojones to make the big move when it's time. The only thing he knows how to do is destroy a team and its fan base.

Stick to crunching the numbers, Cho.

 

[RR7]

And I believe it to be true that you were likely mocking Presti 4 years ago for dumping Allen and Lewis, and turning them into a 20 win team, but I also really don't give a shit. Yippee. You don't like Cho, and because people at one point were mad at the organization for getting rid of him, you will continue to comment on him until.....who knows when, really. It's your schtick. I get it. I was infomed by MM that message boards are mainly to fuck with people, and not real discussion, so the characters played out here make more sense now.

I like the one real move Cho made in Charlotte, at the draft last year. I like the moves he made when he was here, and I wish we would have held on to him, to see what would happen. And no, we can't just look to Charlotte to see how we would have been, so don't bother oging there.

 

[Rhal]

Weather or not Cho is a good GM or not is up in the air. He is planning for the future but we won't know if he is actually going to be successful for a few seasons. What we can say so far is he drafted a young defensive Big who is going to take years to develop and they were fine with that, and Walker who is an Aaron brooks type PG(didn't like that pick then don't like that pick now). To soon to fault/praise him for those choices.
The problem I have with what Cho did was he completely alienated his fan base by not only putting a team on the court who can't compete and may take the worst record ever, but he did it while making the team hard to watch.There is nothing pleasing about watching the Bobcats play, its like watching a college team take on an NBA team. If your going to tank like them, at least put some players on the court who are fun to watch and will constantly try hard instead of a team who just seems to roll over.