OT - Clippers Owner Donald Sterling to GF -- Don't Bring Black People to My Games (2 Viewers)

[Mr. J]

Re: What I'd like to hear Silver say

A conversation between a man and his girlfriend in an isolated location isn't a private matter? I bet most of you can recall conversations or jokes you told that you are glad didn't get recorded and put out for all to see.

I think most of you get my point. The saying goes "bad facts make bad law." Sterling's comments were very bad facts and he deserves what he gets. Only time will tell regarding the rest.

And Eastoff, I do have the right to voice my opinion on this topic as it does relate to the content of the thread. I'm sorry if you don't like what I said, but fortunately you don't get to decide who must go to the OT forum.

The true irony here is that Sterling will make the most money out of this if he just shuts up, lets the league sell the team at their peak price and takes the money and runs. In a way, Silver is giving him a way to max out his investment--an unfortunate consequence.

That's true, but he probably could have made more money, especially if the Clippers end up being dominant over the next few years. I don't know if there's much more the league could have done. At least it tarnishes his name and credibility in the future and sets a precedent. I still wish he wasn't walking away with that much money though.

 

[Reep]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Anyone else notice that by Silver stepping in the way he did, he will certainly maximize the amount of money Sterling walks away with. If Silver had not stepped in and let the market deal with it, the value of the team would have fallen dramatically and cost Sterling a lot of money. I can't think of a way where Sterling could come out of this better financially than the way it is playing out.

Unintended consequences.

 

[Mr. J]

Re: What I'd like to hear Silver say

Sorry you are absolutely incorrect. If he owned them, he wouldn't have to give them a salary. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if "blacks" working for him make more than any other nationality, being the players, coach and executives.

Of course he doesn't own them, but he sees them as inferior human beings, unlike the other nationalities who he is paying less. He's not being generous because he is paying Chris Paul a nice salary. He sees Chris Paul as an inferior human being whose sole purpose is to help generate him a fortune.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

All you wannbe lawyers need to reed this article:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10852199/challenge-donald-sterling

Especially, this part:

"Q: Sterling is notoriously litigious. Can he go to court to stop Silver from punishing him?

A: Not effectively. When Silver issues his punishment to Sterling, the decision is final. The constitution provides in Paragraph 24(m) that a commissioner's decision shall be "final, binding, and conclusive" and shall be as final as an award of arbitration. It is almost impossible to find a judge in the United States judicial system who would set aside an award of arbitration. Sterling can file a lawsuit, but he would face a humiliating defeat early in the process. There is no antitrust theory or principle that would help him against Silver and the NBA. He could claim an antitrust violation, for example, if he were trying to move his team to a different market. But under the terms of the NBA constitution, he has no chance to succeed in litigation over punishment."

This isn't a case of freedom of speech or property rights. It's basic contract law. The NBA has an airtight contract in the form of it's bylaws and constitution that Sterling agreed to when he became an owner. Do you think it's any coincidence that the past and current commissioners are both attorneys?

Not that this will ever go to court, but if it did, the tapes were made at Sterling's request (according to multiple sources) and wold be admissible.

BNM

 

[Haakzilla]

Re: What I'd like to hear Silver say

I just think it's time for the Seattle Clippers to make their NBA debut next season

...that would be amazing if this happened next year, introducing The Seattle Super Clippers!

 

[RR7]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

All you wannbe lawyers need to reed this article:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10852199/challenge-donald-sterling

Especially, this part:

"Q: Sterling is notoriously litigious. Can he go to court to stop Silver from punishing him?

A: Not effectively. When Silver issues his punishment to Sterling, the decision is final. The constitution provides in Paragraph 24(m) that a commissioner's decision shall be "final, binding, and conclusive" and shall be as final as an award of arbitration. It is almost impossible to find a judge in the United States judicial system who would set aside an award of arbitration. Sterling can file a lawsuit, but he would face a humiliating defeat early in the process. There is no antitrust theory or principle that would help him against Silver and the NBA. He could claim an antitrust violation, for example, if he were trying to move his team to a different market. But under the terms of the NBA constitution, he has no chance to succeed in litigation over punishment."

This isn't a case of freedom of speech or property rights. It's basic contract law. The NBA has an airtight contract in the form of it's bylaws and constitution that Sterling agreed to when he became an owner. Do you think it's any coincidence that the past and current commissioners are both attorneys?

Not that this will ever go to court, but if it did, the tapes were made at Sterling's request (according to multiple sources) and wold be admissible.

BNM

Wouldn't the "Commissioner's decision" portion be binding strictly for his ban and fine? And not for the selling of the team, which is what I imagine he'd be gearing up to fight more.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Sterling has been an owner for a LONG time. Any chance he didn't sign that contract? I would assume even if he signed a different contract at the time that he would have had to sign this amended version at some point or that the original contract stated that it could be amended at any time and such amendments would be automatically agreed to.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: What I'd like to hear Silver say

Of course he doesn't own them, but he sees them as inferior human beings, unlike the other nationalities who he is paying less. He's not being generous because he is paying Chris Paul a nice salary. He sees Chris Paul as an inferior human being whose sole purpose is to help generate him a fortune.

Interesting that you had a conversation with sterling so you can explain what he truly expresses. Or are u generating this from the transcripts we all read?

If it's the later, you don't have enough evidence to think what you just wrote.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

I think he is a bad person, but getting that punishment for saying what he said in the privacy of his own damn home is ridiculous, when NBA players break actual laws and get nothing more than a slap on the wrist.

If you think his punishment fits his crime then I think you are wrong.

I, for one, will be extremely interested to see the penalty handed down to the next black player who breaks the law. Also anxious to see the NAACP come out and make a statement commending the commish for his harsh penalty

You seem to use the legal system as a measurement of how bad the conduct is. I don't think that is good measuring stick to decide how bad the conduct is. Some player could be driving without a license and committing a crime and I would consider what Sterling said and his views on life to be much serious and detrimental to the image of the NBA.

Seems like the NBA looks at many different factors when deciding punishment (which is why I don't buy into the slippery slope argument). In this case I think the punishment was harsh but appropriate. Sterling is being made an example, but he he dug his own grave.

My thoughts on the conversation being private is whether the comments were made in private is not really an issue because the reality is the comment are now public and represent the mindset of Sterling.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

I'm talking about a civil case. Like the "Sterlings" suing for 2 billion dollars for damages...

Yeah right, that's not gonna happen. Sterling tries to sue the NBA for $2 billion and the league and the other 29 owners will turn around and counter sue for $200 billion for damaging their brand.

Read the article I linked in my other post. Sterling is contractually bound to accept this punishment as it's the maximum allowed under the league's constitution and is considered final and binding - "and shall be as final as an award of arbitration." By becoming a team owner, Sterling agreed to be bound by the league's constitution and bylaws. He agreed to abide by the decisions of the commissioner as an award of arbitration. When you agree to legally binding arbitration, you do so in lieu of litigation. This decision is legally binding and there is nothing Sterling can do about it.

But, it doesn't mean he'll be forced to sell the team. It would take a 75% vote of the owners to terminate the franchise.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

All you wannbe lawyers need to reed this article:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10852199/challenge-donald-sterling

Especially, this part:

"Q: Sterling is notoriously litigious. Can he go to court to stop Silver from punishing him?

A: Not effectively. When Silver issues his punishment to Sterling, the decision is final. The constitution provides in Paragraph 24(m) that a commissioner's decision shall be "final, binding, and conclusive" and shall be as final as an award of arbitration. It is almost impossible to find a judge in the United States judicial system who would set aside an award of arbitration. Sterling can file a lawsuit, but he would face a humiliating defeat early in the process. There is no antitrust theory or principle that would help him against Silver and the NBA. He could claim an antitrust violation, for example, if he were trying to move his team to a different market. But under the terms of the NBA constitution, he has no chance to succeed in litigation over punishment."

This isn't a case of freedom of speech or property rights. It's basic contract law. The NBA has an airtight contract in the form of it's bylaws and constitution that Sterling agreed to when he became an owner. Do you think it's any coincidence that the past and current commissioners are both attorneys?

Not that this will ever go to court, but if it did, the tapes were made at Sterling's request (according to multiple sources) and wold be admissible.

BNM

Bro, I agree that he will be forced out. But the civil case is what I'm talking about. And if you think you can use the tapes in a civil case, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Wouldn't the "Commissioner's decision" portion be binding strictly for his ban and fine? And not for the selling of the team, which is what I imagine he'd be gearing up to fight more.

Yup, see my response to Mags...

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Yeah right, that's not gonna happen. Sterling tries to sue the NBA for $2 billion and the league and the other 29 owners will turn around and counter sue for $200 billion for damaging their brand.

Read the article I linked in my other post. Sterling is contractually bound to accept this punishment as it's the maximum allowed under the league's constitution and is considered final and binding - "and shall be as final as an award of arbitration." By becoming a team owner, Sterling agreed to be bound by the league's constitution and bylaws. He agreed to abide by the decisions of the commissioner as an award of arbitration. When you agree to legally binding arbitration, you do so in lieu of litigation. This decision is legally binding and there is nothing Sterling can do about it.

But, it doesn't mean he'll be forced to sell the team. It would take a 75% vote of the owners to terminate the franchise.

BNM

Damage to their brand? Bro, the tapes "will not" be used in any court. So how else are they going to prove what he said damaged the nba? I'll wait....

Look I want him out and I think he's a scumbag. But you guys thinking this will get swept under the rug without further litigation are being naive.

 

[Mote]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

ESPN is a bed bitch of sports leagues. You are welcome to find your legal counsel on their website if you so choose. Hell... I will guarantee you legal counsel on both sides of this issue are just entering into legal discovery phase.

All you wannbe lawyers need to reed this article:

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/10852199/challenge-donald-sterling

Especially, this part:

"Q: Sterling is notoriously litigious. Can he go to court to stop Silver from punishing him?

A: Not effectively. When Silver issues his punishment to Sterling, the decision is final. The constitution provides in Paragraph 24(m) that a commissioner's decision shall be "final, binding, and conclusive" and shall be as final as an award of arbitration. It is almost impossible to find a judge in the United States judicial system who would set aside an award of arbitration. Sterling can file a lawsuit, but he would face a humiliating defeat early in the process. There is no antitrust theory or principle that would help him against Silver and the NBA. He could claim an antitrust violation, for example, if he were trying to move his team to a different market. But under the terms of the NBA constitution, he has no chance to succeed in litigation over punishment."

This isn't a case of freedom of speech or property rights. It's basic contract law. The NBA has an airtight contract in the form of it's bylaws and constitution that Sterling agreed to when he became an owner. Do you think it's any coincidence that the past and current commissioners are both attorneys?

Not that this will ever go to court, but if it did, the tapes were made at Sterling's request (according to multiple sources) and wold be admissible.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Bro, I agree that he will be forced out. But the civil case is what I'm talking about. And if you think you can use the tapes in a civil case, you are sadly mistaken.

What civil case? Did you rad the article I linked? Silver's decision is the same as legally binding arbitration. There isn't a judge in the US that will let Sterling tear up that arbitration agreement and sue the NBA in civil court. If he tries, it will be thrown out long before it ever goes to trial.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

What civil case? Did you rad the article I linked? Silver's decision is the same as legally binding arbitration. There isn't a judge in the US that will let Sterling tear up that arbitration agreement and sue the NBA in civil court. If he tries, it will be thrown out long before it ever goes to trial.

BNM

I guess we will see. So a corporate agreement that warrants killing someone else going to protect you from the law? I would like to know your answer.

And I did read the article... I just doubt it can protect you from civil law. Sorry, I've been around and I've fought against legal binding corporate contracts. I will tell you that they are completely different in a civil case.

 

[RR7]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Damage to their brand? Bro, the tapes "will not" be used in any court. So how else are they going to prove what he said damaged the nba? I'll wait....

Look I want him out and I think he's a scumbag. But you guys thinking this will get swept under the rug without further litigation are being naive.

If they wanted to, they can go without the tapes and go on previous racist statements from Sterling, I'd imagine.

 

[porkchopexpress]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Damage to their brand? Bro, the tapes "will not" be used in any court. So how else are they going to prove what he said damaged the nba? I'll wait....

Look I want him out and I think he's a scumbag. But you guys thinking this will get swept under the rug without further litigation are being naive.

Within a day or two, major sponsors were dropping the Clippers. You think that would change if Sterling stays on? That hurts their brand.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

If they wanted to, they can go without the tapes and go on previous racist statements from Sterling, I'd imagine.

Only thing they can do. Bring in the ex girlfriend. And watch sterling's million dollar attorneys rip her credibility apart.

Who else?

 

[RR7]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

I guess we will see. So a corporate agreement that warrants killing someone else going to protect you from the law? I would like to know your answer.

killing someone is just being ridiculous mags, come on.

If I independantly own a McDonalds, I own my individually own my restaurant, but am still bound to the Franchise(NBA) as a whole. If I were doing or saying things to damage their reputation and overall franchise, I'd be held to the franchise contract that I signed with them.

 

[RR7]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Only thing they can do. Bring in the ex girlfriend. And watch sterling's million dollar attorneys rip her credibility apart.

Who else?

His own statements from previous court cases

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Damage to their brand? Bro, the tapes "will not" be used in any court. So how else are they going to prove what he said damaged the nba? I'll wait....

Look I want him out and I think he's a scumbag. But you guys thinking this will get swept under the rug without further litigation are being naive.

This isn't going to court. But if it was:

The tapes were obtained legally, with Sterling's consent (at his request actually). Doesn't matter if they are admissible in court. His offensive comments have been heard by millions and that damages the NBA's brand. The damage has been done. Is there anyone you know who hasn't heard his comments?

My comments are not about forcing him to sell the team, this is about Silver's decision to punish Stern (lifetime ban and $2.5 million fine) which are well within his legal powers as the commissioner of the NBA - the powers granted to him by the owners.

BNM

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Within a day or two, major sponsors were dropping the Clippers. You think that would change if Sterling stays on? That hurts their brand.

Absolutely tarnishes it. But sterling, as mm just said, used Kobe raping a girl and getting away with it. Corporate sponsors dropped. Yet Kobe is still playing? Trust me bro, this isn't as cut and dry as you think.

 

[magnifier661]

Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

killing someone is just being ridiculous mags, come on.

If I independantly own a McDonalds, I own my individually own my restaurant, but am still bound to the Franchise(NBA) as a whole. If I were doing or saying things to damage their reputation and overall franchise, I'd be held to the franchise contract that I signed with them.

Yep I used something radical to point something out. In a civil case, you can argue that the evidence was unlawfully obtained. And because of that, the evidence is stricken from the record.

And if you are using evidence without legally obtaining it, then it's against the law

 

[magnifier661]

Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

This isn't going to court. But if it was:

The tapes were obtained legally, with Sterling's consent (at his request actually). Doesn't matter if they are admissible in court. His offensive comments have been heard by millions and that damages the NBA's brand. The damage has been done. Is there anyone you know who hasn't heard his comments?

My comments are not about forcing him to sell the team, this is about Silver's decision to punish Stern (lifetime ban and $2.5 million fine) which are well within his legal powers as the commissioner of the NBA - the powers granted to him by the owners.

BNM

Sterling gave consent to the NBA to use it? He can't be that stupid is he?

Got a link of that?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Yep I used something radical to point something out. In a civil case, you can argue that the evidence was unlawfully obtained. And because of that, the evidence is stricken from the record.

And if you are using evidence without legally obtaining it, then it's against the law

They will be able to use the tape but don't need it. They can call the woman who heard it, they call Sterling who if he denies saying those things will be committing perjury and can be impeached with teh tape.

The tape may or may not have been illegally obtained. The woman could be facing criminal charges for the tape. But the NBA has done nothing illegal and will be able to use the tape.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

I guess we will see. So a corporate agreement that warrants killing someone else going to protect you from the law? I would like to know your answer.

And I did read the article... I just doubt it can protect you from civil law. Sorry, I've been around and I've fought against legal binding corporate contracts. I will tell you that they are completely different in a civil case.

Now you're being fucking ridiculous. Murder is a crime punishable by severe sentences, including the death penalty in many states. Being a racist isn't a crime. Also, owning an NBA team isn't a right. He signed an agreement to become an owner. He is legally bound by that agreement (NBA constitution and bylaws). By signing that agreement, he agreed the commissioner's decisions will be final, binding and conclusive - as binding as an award of arbitration. The whole point of legally binding arbitration is to avoid litigation. No judge is going to through out a legally binding arbitration award and let Sterling sue the league over this punishment. He agreed to be bound by these terms and now has to accept them. No crime has been committed here. No one's been charged with a crime. No one is going to jail and no one is getting the death penalty. Comparing a matter of contract law to murdering someone is just plain stupid.

BNM

 

[Denny Crane]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Wouldn't the "Commissioner's decision" portion be binding strictly for his ban and fine? And not for the selling of the team, which is what I imagine he'd be gearing up to fight more.

I think you are right. The commissioner must be bound by some sort of rules or he could willy nilly force any owner to sell for any reason he chose.

The 3/4 rule looks like ambiguous language at best. It is intended to allow the league to take over a team that can't live up to its fiscal obligations.

I want the guy gone, but I think the owners are going to consider the likelihood of a multibillion dollar lawsuit. That's where I think Cuban's mindset is at, and he's not going to be alone.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

They will be able to use the tape but don't need it. They can call the woman who heard it, they call Sterling who if he denies saying those things will be committing perjury and can be impeached with teh tape.

The tape may or may not have been illegally obtained. The woman could be facing criminal charges for the tape. But the NBA has done nothing illegal and will be able to use the tape.

We will soon find out. We are dealing with a billionaire slim ball here. Someone that isn't concerned with money and has billions to waste in court.

You guys can argue all you want, but in the end, anyone can sue anyone. And the greatest attorneys in the world and get a man caught red handed with the murder weapon, keep him out of jail.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: Banned for life and $2.5 mm fine!

Now you're being fucking ridiculous. Murder is a crime punishable by severe sentences, including the death penalty in many states. Being a racist isn't a crime. Also, owning an NBA team isn't a right. He signed an agreement to become an owner. He is legally bound by that agreement (NBA constitution and bylaws). By signing that agreement, he agreed the commissioner's decisions will be final, binding and conclusive - as binding as an award of arbitration. The whole point of legally binding arbitration is to avoid litigation. No judge is going to through out a legally binding arbitration award and let Sterling sue the league over this punishment. He agreed to be bound by these terms and now has to accept them. No crime has been committed here. No one's been charged with a crime. No one is going to jail and no one is getting the death penalty. Comparing a matter of contract law to murdering someone is just plain stupid.

BNM

Nope it's breaking the law. Different sentences, but it's back by "was the law broken?" And if evidence used to kick someone out unlawfully obtain, that's breaking the law.