OT: Jordan is the greatest ever to play the game

[Rastapopoulos]

Jordan dominated in the most media-successful era for the league. One thing's for sure: every time he opens his mouth he diminishes what legacy he has. Case in point: weighing in on the whole Kobe vs. Lebron thing. It's so transparent that the reason he picks Kobe is that nobody will ever say that Kobe is better than him because Kobe plays the same position but came after him, whereas Lebron is a real threat because he's a freak of nature. So saying Kobe's better is a way of saying HE'S better. And that's all Jordan cares about.

 

[Rhal]

The road through the East was extremely hard. Most those teams were physical and they would foul you hard. Today's players wouldn't be able to last 20 minutes in physical games like they had in the 90's.

The only player who really can contend with Jordan for GOAT is Lebron and that question can't really be answered until Lebron is out of the league. But what I'd like to point out is that yes the game was more physical in the 90's but todays athletes are on a whole other level then the athletes of back then. Conditioning/training/nutrition is all at a much more advanced level then back in the 90's. You hear it all the time when players from even 5 to 10 years ago compare athletes from now to athletes of their generation. So to say that players of today wouldn't last in that environment is an absurd thing to say.

 

[Denny Crane]

Jordan was asked mid-season to be the Bulls' PG. He hated it, but played out the season. He put up 32.5 PPG with 8 RPGS and 8 APG. Close to a triple double... He had quite a few that season.

I'm not so much a fan of Wilt as GOAT. He was much taller and stronger than the mostly white Gus in the league back then. He should dominate.

The 2nd best, or maybe best, player I've seen since the mid-1960s is Magic. He could play all 5 positions at all-star level. Was THE guy on 5 championship teams. That was at a time the Celtics and 76ers were stacked.

 

[STOMP]

Precisely my point. MJ is only "the greatest ever" due to all the hardware. If he had only won one or two rings, the waters would be MUCH murkier. It certainly wouldn't be unanimous that he was "the greatest ever"...and he might not even be in the conversation with only 1 or 2 rings.
I understand that on the surface it seems laughable to question MJ's place in history, but it's largely due to circumstances. Of course it can never be proven that Jordan wouldn't have a double-threepeat if Sabas had come over. But I think a pretty strong argument can be made that PDX would have won a handful of championships if Sabas came over when (or shortly after) he was drafted. And that would make ALL the difference in the world with how MJ is viewed today.

nice post. MJ certainly fell into a favorable destiny in Chicago. Not only did he benefit from landing in one of the biggest/most favored markets of David Stern's NBA, but he played with an elite talent and many other All Stars. If his draft selection had flipped with Houston's selection of Hakeem, and the best team mates he played with for most of his 20's was a Sleepy Floyd or Jim Peterson level talent, I'm pretty sure the GOAT discussion would be a little more unsettled. Also it seems pretty impossible to compare Bigs and Guards as while both are very important they do such different things. Jordan is the best smaller player I've seen. On this same question with the Bigs I always want to better define things. Sabas & Walton were absolutely dominant players when right. Is the greatest question weighted towards individual success or who was most talented and dominant while at the top of their game? If career success & sustained health matters more I'll go with Hakeem

The problem with the "What If" game is that people always make the assumption what if X happened, but EVERYTHING else stayed the same, which is unfair, and likely inaccurate. It's assuming nobody ellse made moves to counter Sabonis comin gover, or that everything else remained virtually the same with Portland, but they just had a dominant C in the middle, without guessing how it miht have affected anything else. Who knows, maybe Chicago keeps Olden Polynice over Pippen! lol

adding Sabas in his prime wouldn't have been something other teams could counter. Drexler Porter Buck Cliff Jerome... the what if is after how many championships would Stern have shot himself?

STOMP

 

[Sinobas]

Just think of how god damn close we were to having this lineup:

Porter
Jordan
Drexler
Kersey
Sabonis

That would have gone down as one of the most dominating teams in pro-sports history. But no, not the Blazers....KING FUCKUPS of the draft.

 

[MickZagger]

Basketball more than any other sport is where greatness is measured by rings. If Lebron ever wants to be in the conversation as better than Jordan he's got a lot of catching up to do.

 

[MARIS61]

Greatest is a vague term. Jordan was certainly one of the most athletic ever, but like the anal-raper his ego kept him from making his teammates great.

As far as most skilled and most complete players, Sabas and Magic eclipsed anything Jordan ever did.

 

[STOMP]

Basketball more than any other sport is where greatness is measured by rings. If Lebron ever wants to be in the conversation as better than Jordan he's got a lot of catching up to do.

if it's all about the rings, then Jordan isn't in the conversation for GOAT as Bill Russell has more rings then fingers. Hell, Hakeem Sabas and Walton aren't in the conversation with the great Luc Longley...

STOMP

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Jordan dominated in the most media-successful era for the league. One thing's for sure: every time he opens his mouth he diminishes what legacy he has. Case in point: weighing in on the whole Kobe vs. Lebron thing. It's so transparent that the reason he picks Kobe is that nobody will ever say that Kobe is better than him because Kobe plays the same position but came after him, whereas Lebron is a real threat because he's a freak of nature. So saying Kobe's better is a way of saying HE'S better. And that's all Jordan cares about.

You know, this "story" really bugged me, because it wasn't about Jordan at all, but about the journalists who twisted the scenario. Jordan was asked who's had a better career, not who's the better player. He answered one question, but the reports were written to make it appear that he was answering a different one. If everything had been reported accurately, there would have been no story at all, because it's obvious to anyone that Kobe's had a better career overall so far than Lebron. Villifying Jordan for giving the obvious answer to a lame question is silly...and beneath you.

 

[Sinobas]

Jordan is blown way out of proportion, media talks about him as though he's a demi-god, but he played with another one of the best wing players of all time, in Scottie Pippen, and the Bulls filled out their roster with very disciplined role players, that did their jobs well.

They won a lot of hard fought battles against teams like the Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz. Many of those series almost went the other way, it's not like they were invincable.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Jordan is blown way out of proportion, media talks about him as though he's a demi-god, but he played with another one of the best wing players of all time, in Scottie Pippen, and the Bulls filled out their roster with very disciplined role players, that did their jobs well.

They won a lot of hard fought battles against teams like the Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz. Many of those series almost went the other way, it's not like they were invincable.

To be fair, they won 70 and 69 games in consecutive seasons from '95-'97. During the second three-peat, they basically were invincible.

In the 90s, Jordan-led Bulls teams won 27 playoff series. They lost 2. You can try to downplay that all you want, but it just looks silly.

 

[Denny Crane]

Jordan is blown way out of proportion, media talks about him as though he's a demi-god, but he played with another one of the best wing players of all time, in Scottie Pippen, and the Bulls filled out their roster with very disciplined role players, that did their jobs well.

They won a lot of hard fought battles against teams like the Blazers, Suns, Sonics and Jazz. Many of those series almost went the other way, it's not like they were invincable.

In the first championship of the 2nd three peat, Jordan was 32, Pippen 30, Rodman 34, and Harper was 32 4/5th of the starting lineup.

They narrowly won all three series (Sonics, Jazz, Jazz) 4-2.

The first three peat, they beat the Lakers 4-1, Blazers 4-2, and Suns 4-2.

To get a true picture of how dominant the team was, they should have won 9 straight. They lost the ECF 4-3 the year before when Pippen had his famous migraine headache. If he had played, the Bulls should have won. The two years between three peats, they would have won if Jordan wasn't a minor league baseball player.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

In the first championship of the 2nd three peat, Jordan was 32, Pippen 30, Rodman 34, and Harper was 32 4/5th of the starting lineup.

They narrowly won all three series (Sonics, Jazz, Jazz) 4-2.

The first three peat, they beat the Lakers 4-1, Blazers 4-2, and Suns 4-2.

To get a true picture of how dominant the team was, they should have won 9 straight. They lost the ECF 4-3 the year before when Pippen had his famous migraine headache. If he had played, the Bulls should have won. The two years between three peats, they would have won if Jordan wasn't a minor league baseball player.

In '95, Shaq's Magic dominated the Bulls. Then Chicago traded for Rodman, and swept Orlando out of the conference finals the next year. It's arguable that Rodman's rebounding and post defense were the biggest difference between the '95 & '96 Bulls/Magic series', moreso than Jordan "returning to form".

 

[Natebishop3]

In '95, Shaq's Magic dominated the Bulls. Then Chicago traded for Rodman, and swept Orlando out of the conference finals the next year. It's arguable that Rodman's rebounding and post defense were the biggest difference between the '95 & '96 Bulls/Magic series', moreso than Jordan "returning to form".

Losing Ho Grant really hurt the Bulls, so I'm sure adding Rodman helped in that regard.