OT LMAO Rockets, Bosh going back to Miami

[B-Roy]

We signed Trevor Ariza, traded him for Courtney Lee
then let Lee become a free agent and walk away
so we could have cap room to sign Jeremy Lin
who we traded for cap space to sign... Trevor Ariza?

-Rockets Fan

 

[illmatic99]

-Rockets Fan

Daryl Morey for President

 

[NewsSource]

They can still match Parsons and just decide to play Small Ball.

They could, but without Asik and Lin against the Blazers, do they win a game in that series? I'm not sure anyone outside of Portland wants to see Jones defending LMA again in the post.

 

[Minstrel]

Dealing Ariza to put into motion a set of moves that gave you a chance to get Bosh as a third star, and ending up with Ariza when that fell through, is hardly stupid.

I get that Blazers fans are gleeful that it fell through, because it's good for the Blazers and the West, but there's a big difference between something not working out and being stupid.

Ultimately, for the chance to get Bosh (which almost happened) they traded Lin for Ariza and lost Asik. Losing Asik sounds bad on paper, but the Rockets were willing to deal him at the trade deadline for the cap space...being willing to lose him for the back half of the regular season and playoffs should indicate how important they considered him to them on the court.

Morey took over the Rockets in time to watch the Yao/McGrady era disintegrate due to injury and he used his "stockpile assets" approach to get two superstars and almost a third. He's still one of the team-building models and a very smart, effective GM.

 

[noknobs]

Ultimately, for the chance to get Bosh (which almost happened) they traded Lin for Ariza and lost Asik. Losing Asik sounds bad on paper, but the Rockets were willing to deal him at the trade deadline for the cap space...being willing to lose him for the back half of the regular season and playoffs should indicate how important they considered him to them on the court.

They'll likely have lost Lin, Asik and Parsons (who you've somehow completely overlooked) and have Ariza to show for it.

 

[Natebishop3]

They'll likely have lost Lin, Asik and Parsons (who you've somehow completely overlooked) and have Ariza to show for it.

Now they have no backup point guard.

They most likely won't have a backup small forward.

And they have no backup center.

 

[Minstrel]

They'll likely have lost Lin, Asik and Parsons (who you've somehow completely overlooked) and have Ariza to show for it.

What makes you think they're planning to pass on Parsons? I think the much more likely case is they match and they struck this deal with Ariza now so they could fit it in before Parsons sucked up their cap room.

I consider Ariza a better player than Lin (though, fit-wise, a point guard would be better). Losing Asik is certainly non-ideal, but I'd gamble Asik on the (pretty decent) chance to get Bosh.

 

[noknobs]

What makes you think they're planning to pass on Parsons? I think the much more likely case is they match and they struck this deal with Ariza now so they could fit it in before Parsons sucked up their cap room.

I consider Ariza a better player than Lin (though, fit-wise, a point guard would be better). Losing Asik is certainly non-ideal, but I'd gamble Asik on the (pretty decent) chance to get Bosh.

They could, but that makes signing his backup, Ariza, to 8m/yr for 4 yrs sort of odd, considering I think they should have signed a pg or a big instead. But if they do, they'll have lost Lin, Asik and signed Parsons for 13m+ more than they needed to for this upcoming season, and have Ariza to show for it.

 

[Minstrel]

They could, but that makes signing his backup, Ariza, to 8m/yr for 4 yrs sort of odd, considering I think they should have signed a pg or a big instead. But if they do, they'll have lost Lin, Asik and signed Parsons for 13m+ more than they needed to for this upcoming season, and have Ariza to show for it.

This is basically their last chance at cap space. Parsons was going to cost a ton either this year or next, so they willingly spent more this year to give themselves that last shot at max cap space. Having a shot at max space when you're already a borderline-elite team is pretty incredible and I don't blame him at all for taking the shot. Ultimately, Parsons costing more this year isn't going to hurt anything except the owner's bottom line because once they struck out on Bosh, there really wasn't going to be any other big ticket item that was realistic (and they couldn't roll it over to next year because Parsons would have required a big contract next year).

Ultimately, I don't feel they lost much except Asik. That's not insignificant, but I don't think it's a crushing blow and well-worth the possibility of Bosh, IMO.

I assume they picked up Ariza to get at least one more good player for their bench before their cap space evaporated for good in this (the Harden/Howard) era, not because they plan to let Parsons go.

 

[lawai'a]

can Houston sign and trade parsons to any one but dallas?

 

[Minstrel]

can Houston sign and trade parsons to any one but dallas?

No, they can't even sign and trade him to Dallas since he signed the offer sheet. He's currently a Mavericks signing unless Houston matches.

 

[lawai'a]

No, they can't even sign and trade him to Dallas since he signed the offer sheet. He's currently a Mavericks signing unless Houston matches.

what was all the kahn drama about trying to get us to take derrick Williams for batum in sign and trade?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

kahn

 

[lawai'a]

kahn and morey remind me of each other and I've seen it written that both think they are always the smartest guy in the room.

 

[Minstrel]

what was all the kahn drama about trying to get us to take derrick Williams for batum in sign and trade?

I don't remember entirely, but I believe he pitched that to the Blazers, that off-season, before Batum signed an offer sheet with them.

 

[Minstrel]

kahn and morey remind me of each other and I've seen it written that both think they are always the smartest guy in the room.

The difference is that Morey has actually built a very good team and actually is smart. But I agree that both have that attitude, according to what's been written.

 

[Natebishop3]

The difference is that Morey has actually built a very good team and actually is smart. But I agree that both have that attitude, according to what's been written.

Is there really any indication that Bosh was likely to sign? It seems like Morey just assumed that if LeBron left Miami, Bosh would leave too.

 

[Minstrel]

Is there really any indication that Bosh was likely to sign? It seems like Morey just assumed that if LeBron left Miami, Bosh would leave too.

I recall reports (which aren't conclusive, of course) that Bosh was seriously considering Houston in addition to Miami. My own perception that once James went to Cleveland, Houston's chances went up a lot and it was rather shocking to the league at large that Bosh remained in Miami. But I don't know any of that for sure.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

groupthink definitely had bosh going to houston

 

[Natebishop3]

I recall reports (which aren't conclusive, of course) that Bosh was seriously considering Houston in addition to Miami. My own perception that once James went to Cleveland, Houston's chances went up a lot and it was rather shocking to the league at large that Bosh remained in Miami. But I don't know any of that for sure.

I just don't think it's that surprising. He already has two rings. He's not a guy who is going to get a ton of endorsements (sort of in the mold of a LaMarcus Aldridge,) so I don't blame him for taking the extra cash.

 

[B-Roy]

This is basically their last chance at cap space. Parsons was going to cost a ton either this year or next, so they willingly spent more this year to give themselves that last shot at max cap space. Having a shot at max space when you're already a borderline-elite team is pretty incredible and I don't blame him at all for taking the shot. Ultimately, Parsons costing more this year isn't going to hurt anything except the owner's bottom line because once they struck out on Bosh, there really wasn't going to be any other big ticket item that was realistic (and they couldn't roll it over to next year because Parsons would have required a big contract next year).

Ultimately, I don't feel they lost much except Asik. That's not insignificant, but I don't think it's a crushing blow and well-worth the possibility of Bosh, IMO.

I assume they picked up Ariza to get at least one more good player for their bench before their cap space evaporated for good in this (the Harden/Howard) era, not because they plan to let Parsons go.

My take was that Morey didn't need to hit another home run. Sure Chris Bosh would have been nice, as he fits their needs to a T, but he probably could have created an equally competitive (or possibly more) roster by just making a number of safe moves. Retain Parsons for cheap, get a starter level power forward that might not be all-star quality. Then sign a few good bench pieces that complement your core. Howard and Harden by themselves is an extremely strong core as it is. They could have built a more balanced roster without the risk of the scenario they are facing now.

IMO, Morey is a gambler. He's smart, but not brilliant. He won two times in a row but like any other gambler he couldn't resist going for it again. It remains to be seen how much of a stepback this offseason really is, but the Rockets could probably have a roster right now that would be just as dangerous as the one with Bosh, if they didn't decide to shoot for the moon.

 

[Minstrel]

My take was that Morey didn't need to hit another home run. Sure Chris Bosh would have been nice, as he fits their needs to a T, but he probably could have created an equally competitive (or possibly more) roster by just making a number of safe moves. Retain Parsons for cheap, get a starter level power forward that might not be all-star quality. Then sign a few good bench pieces that complement your core. Howard and Harden by themselves is an extremely strong core as it is. They could have built a more balanced roster without the risk of the scenario they are facing now.

But you frame this as if they're now facing an apocalyptic scenario. I don't think the team is significantly weaker than they were. Maybe slightly weaker, but I think that was an acceptable risk for getting a third star. It's not like he ripped the team apart for that chance.

I agree that it's possible that the right direction to go was to sign a few solid players and not shoot for a big ticket item, but I don't think that that path would have been strictly superior (better than even the upside of his gamble, getting Bosh) and they're going to have plenty of chances to get solid role-players going forward using the MLE and the BAE. This was their final chance to have an impact signing.

I don't know if Morey is brilliant. I think it's way too early to say that he is or isn't and I would default to "isn't," because most people aren't. But I don't think he's too much of a gambler. I think "too much of a gambler" might fit Whitsitt making moves like trading for Shawn Kemp and signing Rod Strickland and Detlef Schrempf...making somewhat desperate upside gambles on guys who were probably (based on what was known at the time; in retrospect they obviously were) past their primes. Risking basically one decent but not great player (Asik) for an in-his-prime star in your final chance at real cap space during this "era" isn't gambling too much, in my opinion.

 

[B-Roy]

But you frame this as if they're now facing an apocalyptic scenario. I don't think the team is significantly weaker than they were. Maybe slightly weaker, but I think that was an acceptable risk for getting a third star. It's not like he ripped the team apart for that chance.

I'm not saying it's an apocalyptic scenario. Hell, any scenario where they keep Harden and Howard is salvageable. I'm only comparing what they have now to what they could have had. Most contending teams, unless they're losing LeBron or something, don't really take a step back. The Rockets took a step back when they could have planted a firm foot forward. That's all I'm getting at.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not saying it's an apocalyptic scenario. Hell, any scenario where they keep Harden and Howard is salvageable. I'm only comparing what they have now to what they could have had. Most teams, unless they're losing LeBron or something, don't really take a step back. The Rockets took a step back when they could have planted a firm foot forward. That's all I'm getting at.

Sure, but risking a small step back for a huge step forward is a pretty good gamble, IMO. I mean, if you bet $100 for a chance at $1000 with decent odds, that's a great bet. If you lose, you can be criticized for losing money, but that doesn't mean the decision-making was flawed.

We can, of course, debate whether he had decent odds or not (I think NateBishop thinks not, which is fine), but if you feel you do, it's a good decision. Only Bosh knows for sure how seriously he was considering Houston, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that he was seriously considering Houston. Just the fact that he went back to Miami doesn't mean he never considered Houston.

 

[B-Roy]

Sure, but risking a small step back for a huge step forward is a pretty good gamble, IMO. I mean, if you bet $100 for a chance at $1000 with decent odds, that's a great bet. If you lose, you can be criticized for losing money, but that doesn't mean the decision-making was flawed.

We can, of course, debate whether he had decent odds or not (I think NateBishop thinks not, which is fine), but if you feel you do, it's a good decision. Only Bosh knows for sure how seriously he was considering Houston, but I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that he was seriously considering Houston. Just the fact that he went back to Miami doesn't mean he never considered Houston.

There is a poster with inside knowledge on the clutchfans forums that said Bosh was considering the Rockets because the Heat lowballed him after learning LeBron was going to the Cavs. Then the Heat panicked and offered the max, which Bosh took. Take it for what it's worth but all things equal I think Bosh clearly preferred Miami.

My point is still that the Rockets could have put together an equally competitive team than the one with Bosh and no bench and avoid the risk altogether. Howard and Harden are good enough by themselves. That may still be possible.....but after the Ariza signing I doubt it.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Morey's ego got in his way and he dealt Asik and Lin before he got assurances from Bosh. Huge error by the GM. Good that he shoots for big deals, but needs to be smart about it and not think everyone wants to go to the Rockets (a poster of Melo in a Rocket uni with Lin's number was also pretty stupid and had zero effect)

I would rather have Ariza at 8 mil/yr for 4 yrs than Parsons at 15 mil/yr for 3 yrs and a player's option.

I have my own theory, not supported by anything but a hunch, but I don't think a lot of players want to play with Howard. Think that is why Melo never really considered Houston.

 

[julius]

Couldn't he have waited until Bosh said "yes" and then traded the players?

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Couldn't he have waited until Bosh said "yes" and then traded the players?

Yes

 

[lawai'a]

how did Beverly's knee turnout? he is due a payday next offseason too, yeah?

 

[cmeese47]

Problem with your plan...Parsons, Harden, and Howard add up to over 50 million dollars. Unless the Rockets can convince LA to take $10 million a year they're shit out of luck.

I said resign Parsons and use their trade exceptions or sign 1 year deals and offer a deal to LA.