Our lineup sucks

[Rastapopoulos]

If you don't trust your scouts to select the right guy earlier, then they're obviously not the right scouts. And if 4 or 5 is too high to draft a guy, then you trade down to 10 and get him and extra stuff.

Look: it's not necessarily about the scouts. It is literally impossible to tell how good an untrained teen will become. For every Giannis there's ten Stromile Swifts. If you're in the top of the draft then you pretty much HAVE to take a flyer on one of the picks that just won't be available later, because (unless you suck permanently) you're not going to get another shot at a player like that. Whereas, if you're Miami or the San Antonio of the past, you can take somebody who can actually play. There's probably as much history of a guy like a Jalen Brunson or Draymond Green, dismissed as "low ceiling" turning into a star as there is of players like Darko Milicic or Shawn Bradley or Stromile Swift.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'm not sure what drafts you're mushing together to form this generalization, but it sure wasn't the "bad draft" of 2013. The lotto contained many washouts including the #1 overall pick Anthony Bennett who was out of the league after his rookie deal ran out. Of the lotto picks, only #2 overall pick Victor Oladipo made an All Star team (2018,2019). He was a great athlete who upped his skills while in the league... his career was derailed by injuries not ability. Michael Carter Williams was a very solid athlete drafted at the end of the lotto who went on to win the ROY... he never figured out how to shoot but he enjoyed a good career. The clear best player from it was of course Giannis at #14, who was both the youngest and arguably the best athlete with the highest ceiling... again a great athlete who developed into an all time great player while in the league.

There were numerous other solid pros from that bad draft (CJ, Gobert), but the takeaway wasn't to avoid the great athletes with upside.

STOMP

OK, but if my point was "you're better out of the top ten of a shitty draft" then it holds.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Your happiness in life will generally be correlated to 'your expectations versus your reality.' If anyone expected this team to actually compete for a play-in spot (about the highest you could have reasonably expected) than I get why you are mad about this team, personally I figured the goal was always another top 5 lottery spot, so they are who I thought they were.

I will agree that Cronin's presser saying he hopes to be the next Rockets was very concerning though, that franchise shouldn't be the model for anyone.

What if my happiness in life depends on my team actually having a chance to win on most nights?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This season has been so god awful for assessing and analyzing. We have had so many injuries.

Simons has missed significant time.

Sharpe has missed significant time.

Scoot has missed a decent chunk of games.

How are we even supposed to know what we have?

Show me a team that that isn't true of.

 

[bigbailes]

What if my happiness in life depends on my team actually having a chance to win on most nights?

Then this is the wrong team to be following .. should probably be a bandwagon fan of a winning team if your psyche can't handle the ups and downs of most small market NBA teams.

 

[STOMP]

OK, but if my point was "you're better out of the top ten of a shitty draft" then it holds.

again, the #2 pick Oladipo was absolutely one of the top athletes in that draft. He went on to develop his skills and enjoy a successful career. In retrospect he is unarguably one of the best players from that draft which seems to directly counter your "never" claim but whatever...

STOMP

 

[Phatguysrule]

Is there some part of “rebuilding” that some folks didn’t understand? Young, less talented teams suck. Young, less talented teams that suffer injuries to key players suck even more.

The part where it would have been easier to build a championship team around Dame than to build a championship team without him?

Yeah, that's the part where I decided I didn't want to trade Dame. Unfortunately, Dame knew more than we did, and he lost faith.

Which realistically probably means these guys won't be the group that builds a title contending team without Dame, either.

So, I'm just kicking back and trying to enjoy as much as I can. Hoping they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

 

[Natebishop3]

The part where it would have been easier to build a championship team around Dame than to build a championship team without him?

Yeah, that's the part where I decided I didn't want to trade Dame. Unfortunately, Dame knew more than we did, and he lost faith.

Which realistically probably means these guys won't be the group that builds a title contending team without Dame, either.

So, I'm just kicking back and trying to enjoy as much as I can. Hoping they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Building a championship around Dame was not easier.

We had no assets and we're not a free agent destination. Right now he's playing next to one of the top 2-3 players in the entire league and they only have the third best record in the East and the 7th best record in the league. They're massively underperforming their expectations. If he can't do anything with Giannis, how were we going to build a team around him at this juncture? Neil pissed away his prime.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Building a championship around Dame was not easier.

We had no assets and we're not a free agent destination. Right now he's playing next to one of the top 2-3 players in the entire league and they only have the third best record in the East and the 7th best record in the league. They're massively underperforming their expectations. If he can't do anything with Giannis, how were we going to build a team around him at this juncture? Neil pissed away his prime.

That would be easier than building from the ground up.

Building from the ground up is really hard.

 

[Natebishop3]

That would be easier than building from the ground up.

Building from the ground up is really hard.

Building from the ground up is the reality for franchises like Portland. Realistically we were screwed when Neil let LMA and Wes and Rolo walk for nothing. Traded Batum for nothing. The team was massively set back.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Building from the ground up is the reality for franchises like Portland. Realistically we were screwed when Neil let LMA and Wes and Rolo walk for nothing. Traded Batum for nothing. The team was massively set back.

Yep. Neil should have been fired immediately.

 

[e_blazer]

The part where it would have been easier to build a championship team around Dame than to build a championship team without him?

Yeah, that's the part where I decided I didn't want to trade Dame. Unfortunately, Dame knew more than we did, and he lost faith.

Which realistically probably means these guys won't be the group that builds a title contending team without Dame, either.

So, I'm just kicking back and trying to enjoy as much as I can. Hoping they can pull a rabbit out of the hat.

Hey, you don’t have to sell me on that. I was firmly in the “reload around Dame” camp. Mainly because I knew that the full rebuild would be exactly like this. And that the most likely outcome of the full rebuild still won’t yield a title.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Hey, you don’t have to sell me on that. I was firmly in the “reload around Dame” camp. Mainly because I knew that the full rebuild would be exactly like this. And that the most likely outcome of the full rebuild still won’t yield a title.

Yep. Agreed.

 

[maxiep]

Hey, you don’t have to sell me on that. I was firmly in the “reload around Dame” camp. Mainly because I knew that the full rebuild would be exactly like this. And that the most likely outcome of the full rebuild still won’t yield a title.

Tough to reload when you only have blanks in the cupboard. We were both cap constrained and devoid of tradable assets. Reloading wasn't a viable option.

 

[e_blazer]

Tough to reload when you only have blanks in the cupboard. We were both cap constrained and devoid of tradable assets. Reloading wasn't a viable option.

I understand your point, but I don't agree with it. But, we've discussed that ad nauseum and it's not an option anymore so let's just move along. Let's just hope for a top-3 pick and for the Warriors to finish in the lottery, but stay out of top-4 territory.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Contrast us with the Hornets:




I think I'm more interested in following the Hornets right now if we're committed to tanking...
Now if only Sacramento would waive Sasha Vezenkov so he could join up with Micic...

 

[Phatguysrule]

Tough to reload when you only have blanks in the cupboard. We were both cap constrained and devoid of tradable assets. Reloading wasn't a viable option.

For sure. Tough. But with Dame, far less tough than doing it with without him.

And once he demanded the trade it became moot. This is what I expected to get from trading Dame. It's what I expect for a while.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

again, the #2 pick Oladipo was absolutely one of the top athletes in that draft. He went on to develop his skills and enjoy a successful career. In retrospect he is unarguably one of the best players from that draft which seems to directly counter your "never" claim but whatever...

STOMP

Given that people STILL argue that Bill Walton wasn't the greatest Trail Blazer, I question your contention that a guy about to drop out of the league is "unarguably" one of the best players.
Yes, not his fault that he got injured, but actually he was billed as OBVIOUSLY a STAR coming into that draft (and probably would go #1 in the upcoming draft) and was always a disappointment even before the injuries.

In any case, there can still be good players above where you pick and it still be worth playing well the season before if there are ALSO even better players available when you DO pick.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Then this is the wrong team to be following .. should probably be a bandwagon fan of a winning team if your psyche can't handle the ups and downs of most small market NBA teams.

Shoulda told me that about 30 years ago.

(That "most" is doing a lot of ass-covering, given the existence of San Antonio and Utah.)

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Before the Dame trade, but after the draft, I was really worried.
We had 4 (imho bona fide) NBA players: Grant, Ant, Sharpe, and Scoot...
along with some middling players: Nas, Nurk, Thybulle, Walker.

That's not enough to field a team. But, we got Ayton, Holiday/Brogdaddy, and Robert Williams giving us 7 bona fide NBA players. Along with upstart Camara, this was a very good team, and yes, I was hoping for a play-in spot.

So, the pre-trade team had negative depth. The post-trade team had miniscule depth. The reality is that we've been destroyed by injuries, turning that minuscule depth back into negative depth. Of course, we are struggling. I still think that if we get healthy, we can definitely win some games.

p.s. I don't see how a rookie helps unless they're an SF or a rebounding PF.

 

[STOMP]

Given that people STILL argue that Bill Walton wasn't the greatest Trail Blazer, I question your contention that a guy about to drop out of the league is "unarguably" one of the best players.
Yes, not his fault that he got injured, but actually he was billed as OBVIOUSLY a STAR coming into that draft (and probably would go #1 in the upcoming draft) and was always a disappointment even before the injuries.

Horseshit. 2013 was 11 years ago, thats a solid career in NBA years. And in what world are back to back All Star appearances a disappointment? Dude proved to be a stud drafted at the top of a bad draft. You made a ridiculous sweeping statement and now are going to even more ridiculous lengths to defend it as if you've a leg to stand on.

Oh look over the there! It's a squirrel or Bill Walton (& his 10 year career) or whatever else to distract from this nonsense

STOMP

 

[PtldPlatypus]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/draft/NBA_2013.html

Sorting by VORP, Oladipo was 8th best in the 2013 draft. He had the 3rd-best career scoring average behind Giannis and CJ.

Definitely one of the best players. Pretty tough to legitimately dispute.

 

[Natebishop3]

Contrast us with the Hornets:




I think I'm more interested in following the Hornets right now if we're committed to tanking...
Now if only Sacramento would waive Sasha Vezenkov so he could join up with Micic...

LOL OK

Go be a Hornets fan if that makes you happy.

 

[HailBlazers]

Go be a Hornets fan if that makes you happy.

Or us lol.

 

[blazerkor]

LOL OK

Go be a Hornets fan if that makes you happy.

I'm no Hornets fan but I hope they keep winning games and we keep losing because that fourth spot has better odds. Everyone keeps shitting on this draft but I like Alex Sarr... I think Cody Williams is going to be really nice as well but Sarr is the guy who will be able to keep you in games against Wemby. He's more athletic than Chet and probably than Wemby too and has Chet's length. His shot looks nice too, not as nice as Chet's but still a really smooth stroke for a 7'1" guy.

 

[Sheldon Shape]

I'm no Hornets fan but I hope they keep winning games and we keep losing because that fourth spot has better odds. Everyone keeps shitting on this draft but I like Alex Sarr... I think Cody Williams is going to be really nice as well but Sarr is the guy who will be able to keep you in games against Wemby. He's more athletic than Chet and probably than Wemby too and has Chet's length. His shot looks nice too, not as nice as Chet's but still a really smooth stroke for a 7'1" guy.

Sarr would change your entire defensive identity. That's what we need more than anything. Cody Williams would be a nice consolation prize.

 

[THE HCP]

I'm no Hornets fan but I hope they keep winning games and we keep losing because that fourth spot has better odds. Everyone keeps shitting on this draft but I like Alex Sarr... I think Cody Williams is going to be really nice as well but Sarr is the guy who will be able to keep you in games against Wemby. He's more athletic than Chet and probably than Wemby too and has Chet's length. His shot looks nice too, not as nice as Chet's but still a really smooth stroke for a 7'1" guy.

No sir/ma’am, you have never been more wrong. This draft is absolutely horrible and this is a tough season to be excited about draft picks.

 

[bigbailes]

Shoulda told me that about 30 years ago.

(That "most" is doing a lot of ass-covering, given the existence of San Antonio and Utah.)

Using the Utah Jazz as an example of a small market NBA team that has punched above their weight has me thinking this is Cronin's account on S2 after his Houston remarks. The Jazz and all their playoff success having been to the WCF 1 time in the last 25 years. I think we can all agree SA is the great outlier in the small market NBA scene and that was on the shoulders of a top 10 all time guy and some great role players. Look at their record pre/post Duncan and tell me they aren't like the rest of the small market teams.

 

[Whyachi]

Nikola Jovic had a career high 24 in Milwaukee. He would have been a perfect addition to Blazers sucky lineup. We should have listened to Heat fans.

 

[Pinwheel1]

No sir/ma’am, you have never been more wrong. This draft is absolutely horrible and this is a tough season to be excited about draft picks.

Well there is no doubt that this draft does not have a superstar at #1. Saar is no Wemby. But are we sure the rest of the draft is any worse than say last year? This year's projected lottery is all 18 and 19-year-olds.

Williams could be as good as Miller
Topic could be as good as Scoot
Risacher could easily be better than Amen

I mean look at last year's lottery below, other than Wemby there are a lot of question marks. I bet it will take a few years to know for sure which is better.


First Round

1. Spurs draft Victor Wembanyama (Metropolitans 92)

2. Hornets draft Brandon Miller (Alabama)

3. Blazers draft Scoot Henderson (G League Ignite)

4. Rockets draft Amen Thompson (Overtime Elite)

5. Pistons draft Ausar Thompson (Overtime Elite)

6. Magic draft Anthony Black (Arkansas)

7. Pacers draft Bilal Coulibaly (Metropolitans 92) – Traded to Wizards

8. Wizards draft Jarace Walker (Houston) – Traded to Pacers

9. Jazz draft Taylor Hendricks (UCF)

10. Mavericks draft Cason Wallace (Kentucky) – Traded to Thunder

11. Magic draft Jett Howard (Michigan)

12. Thunder draft Dereck Lively II (Duke) – Traded to Mavericks

13. Raptors draft Gradey Dick (Kansas)

14. Pelicans draft Jordan Hawkins (Connecticut)

15. Hawks draft Kobe Bufkin (Michigan)